Beating the 90/180 day Schengen rule

[Dwarfland]

French border control office 2022…..

“Hey Pierre we av some of zose rosbifs outside with a big white van, zey give me ziss visa”
“ Alors Michel, zat is one of zose visas for the gite owners, do they have a gite?’
“I will ask them if they av a gite”

….. “ Pierre, zey say they av a gite in their van and zat zey even carry a spare gite box”
“Zut alors Michel! zose feelthy breeetish cochon , ow did we ever say zey could be oooropean?”
“ Pierre I am ow you say, , tres tres appy zat zey left, it azz been such ‘appy times , lets go and pretend we actually care about zose silly little angle morts steeckers and blow some smoke in zere little rosbif faces. “
“Non , even funnier , zey sink we care about ze petit ‘uk’ stickers! We must be tres vite, we av to shut zis merde border post in cinque minoots, zo we can go for our 3 lunch zen go and see our mistresses non?”
“ oh oui, zose poor rosbif, only 90 days away from Boris and zey have to pay gross eoooros to bring zere how you say , ‘cockagite’ chien over ‘ere’, hehe”
“ zey can av zis visa back, tell the rosbifs to go and turn off ze car number plate machine”
“Turn it off? Is it supposed to be on? “

 

[Speve]

They don't need to know because you are in a controlled Schengen Zone...you can move about as you wish for a total of 90 days...you then exit the Schengen Zone...stamp in stamp out....just how simple is this....

Exactly so it’s no different than with a French visaexcept he can stay 180 days in total.

 

[Littlewheels]

To access pings from phone masts and info from banking transactions, etc would take an inordinate amount of time and effort. So, unless you’ve committed a serious crime, I would say it would be extremely unlikely any digital checks would be made.

Isn’t this what the Etas scheme is all about, Crime, it’s to control the movement of the criminal element associated with Money Laundering,Drugs,Financial matters, Murderers, Spy’s,etc etc.
But they who think they know it all say it’s to stop some poor sod lying on a beach for longer than 90 days.

 

[The Coops]

All very interesting but if you have a mobile phone you will be leaving a trail of where you go etc, not that for one minute do I suppose that Le Flic's could be chasing you for any minor infractions but someone somewhere ( if anything happened) will say, Lets have a look at their phone records and voila, there it is Times, dates, speeds and countries visited, Just something else to bear in mind......or buy a cheap burner phone and pay cash for your sims.

 

[Lynne Roy]

Your interpretation is correct. It’s for a fixed period with set dates. If you wanted to travel beyond that you’d have to start the process all over again.

But I believe you have to wait 6 months from visa expiry date before you can apply again.

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[MisterB]

Let's all chill, some people want to push the envelope, some people don't think there is an envelope and some people don't care if anyone does or doesn't push the envelope that may or may not exist.

I'm happy with what I think the envelope looks like, I am happy I can use the envelope that I think exists and with what I believe I can fit into the envelope.

If others want to push their own envelope, that's very much an issue for them and not really of any concern of anyone elses.

But for those who are unsure of what the envelope looks like and just what will or won't fit in, it might be best if they contact the relevant authorities for their own clarification and not listen to those of us on here, some of whom may be right or wrong.

I added my comments to try to clarify what I believe you can legally fit into the envelope, not to stop those who disagree from enjoying their holidays and pushing their own envelopes as they see fit.

 

[jumar]

Let's all chill, some people want to push the envelope, some people don't think there is an envelope and some people don't care if anyone does or doesn't push the envelope that may or may not exist.

I'm happy with what I think the envelope looks like, I am happy I can use the envelope that I think exists and with what I believe I can fit into the envelope.

If others want to push their own envelope, that's very much an issue for them and not really of any concern of anyone elses.

But for those who are unsure of what the envelope looks like and just what will or won't fit in, it might be best if they contact the relevant authorities for their own clarification and not listen to those of us on here, some of whom may be right or wrong.

I added my comments to try to clarify what I believe you can legally fit into the envelope, not to stop those who disagree from enjoying their holidays and pushing their own envelopes as they see fit.

Thought you served in the Fire Service, like me.... it's turned out that you were a Postman...Cool..

 

[Poutie57]

All this talk of overstaying your 90/180 and extra 6mth visa but has anybody actually and factually heard of someone over staying by a small amount being fined. Since May 21 I’ve been stamped in and out 4times 142 days and not once has the border guard stared at my passport and started counting the days up. I’ve kept my own Schengen calculator spreadsheet so if needed for proof that I haven’t broken the rules, but quite frankly I don’t think they’re interested until the ETAS scheme is live

 

[bigtwin]

All this talk of overstaying your 90/180 and extra 6mth visa but has anybody actually and factually heard of someone over staying by a small amount being fined. Since May 21 I’ve been stamped in and out 4times 142 days and not once has the border guard stared at my passport and started counting the days up. I’ve kept my own Schengen calculator spreadsheet so if needed for proof that I haven’t broken the rules, but quite frankly I don’t think they’re interested until the ETAS scheme is live

Yes, but don’t ask me for a reference to it.

The border guard will only become interested when his screen flashes red, they won’t be perturbed by the everyday run-of-the-mill traveller like your good self.

Ian

 

[royandsharont]

Absolutely right bigtwin it will take more to make them take an interest.

But there are always two sides to the actions suggested throughout this thread. Some are happy to not abide by the rules of others when it doesn’t suit them.

For many rules are there to be respected and upheld not disregarded or circumvented and it all depends which camp, you by nature, are in

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[Coolcats]

Doesn’t link to your passport though does it?

Are you sure ? If you have a vehicle that is registered to you, the police have a pnc data base that can check you are the owner. Insurance details, Mot and the status of your licence including any points or if you are banned etc. they can also call up your photo. If you apply for a licence renewal your current photo from your passport can be used, therefore a link between your passport and driving licence has been established.

“To renew online, you’ll need to:

• have a valid UK passport
• be a resident of Great Britain - there’s a different process in Northern Ireland
• pay £14 by MasterCard, Visa, Electron or Delta debit or credit card (there’s no fee if you’re over 70 or have a medical short period licence)
• provide addresses of where you’ve lived over the last 3 years
• have your driving licence (if you do not have your driving licence you must say why as part of your application)
• have your National Insurance number (if you know it)
• not be disqualified from driving

DVLA will get the photo and signature for your new driving licence from your passport. If this is not possible you will not be able to change your photo online.”

 

[Langtoftlad]

I think folk are naive in the extreme if you believe that databases are not linked.
Schengen might allow freedom to pass through borders unfettered but it does not mean you're not recorded leaving entering...
Whether the authorities choose to do anything with that information is open for debate... but it will be recorded.

 

[bigtwin]

I think folk are naive in the extreme if you believe that databases are not linked.
Schengen might allow freedom to pass through borders unfettered but it does not mean you're not recorded leaving entering...
Whether the authorities choose to do anything with that information is open for debate... but it will be recorded.

It’s (cross country database linking, that is) all rather immaterial though isn’t it because most folks enter/leave through the same country. Appreciate that some may enter via France and leave via Spain (and vice versa) but that’s not the case for the majority of travellers.

Ian

 

[Stoosal]

I assume this was written with tongue firmly in cheek. If not you’ve been watching too many spy movies!

Border control have access to many databases. Within minutes they can obtain lots of information. They have different regulations from police services so can, and do, access financial, telecommunication and vehicle databases on tap. If you think that they can’t build a picture of where you have been in a small amount of time you are very mistaken.

 

[nicholsong]

Are you sure ? If you have a vehicle that is registered to you, the police have a pnc data base that can check you are the owner. Insurance details, Mot and the status of your licence including any points or if you are banned etc. they can also call up your photo. If you apply for a licence renewal your current photo from your passport can be used, therefore a link between your passport and driving licence has been established.

“To renew online, you’ll need to:

• have a valid UK passport
• be a resident of Great Britain - there’s a different process in Northern Ireland
• pay £14 by MasterCard, Visa, Electron or Delta debit or credit card (there’s no fee if you’re over 70 or have a medical short period licence)
• provide addresses of where you’ve lived over the last 3 years
• have your driving licence (if you do not have your driving licence you must say why as part of your application)
• have your National Insurance number (if you know it)
• not be disqualified from driving

DVLA will get the photo and signature for your new driving licence from your passport. If this is not possible you will not be able to change your photo online.”

But the point was the connection between number plate and passport.

Number plate does not prove who was in the vehicle.

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[nicholsong]

I haven't seen any Brit expats on here who are restricted by the recent changes kicking off, and trying to find a workaround to travel as they wish...we didn't get a vote...but we are restricted just the same as the residents of the UK....and most, not all, obey the law and accept the change...
If those who needed to be in Europe for the maximum duration possible not think about becoming an EU resident....is the UK so bad that you have to be out as long as possible, if so join us and get a better life....

But even Residency does not get around the 90/180 day restriction of access to other Schengen countries, other than host country. Although cross-border checks within Schengen are almost non-existent.

Only Citizenship does that, and that is harder to achieve.

 

[philann]

I suspect that nothing may be said when overstayers leave Schengen, but the issue may come up next time they try to enter, whenever that may be, even if it’s 2 years down the line.

 

[bobandjanie]

But the point was the connection between number plate and passport.

Number plate does not prove who was in the vehicle.

Janie was asked at eurotunnel the purpose of her visit and how long she was staying Spanish resident driving our old UK registered motorhome, I think people that think once past border control they are clear, if that was the case the Civil Gardia here in Spain wouldn't be catching all these criminals and all the dodgy illegal cars would still be on the roads instead of the breaker yards. Bob.

 

[Robert Clark]

Wondering how long it will be until there is a flotilla of English Motorhomes crossing the channel, trying to break in to Europe

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

It isn't the authorities place to prove where you have been or how long for, it is up to you to prove where you have been, if pulled up for questioning for whatever reason.
I was stopped once on a trip of a few weeks, for some reason the border bloke thought I'd crossed the day before and was going back the next day, which understandably would be a little odd. I had some campsite receipts and he wanted to look back on my satnav to see where i'd been according to that.
Ultimately, you have to prove yourself to them.

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[nicholsong]

It isn't the authorities place to prove where you have been or how long for, it is up to you to prove where you have been, if pulled up for questioning for whatever reason.
I was stopped once on a trip of a few weeks, for some reason the border bloke thought I'd crossed the day before and was going back the next day, which understandably would be a little odd. I had some campsite receipts and he wanted to look back on my satnav to see where i'd been according to that.
Ultimately, you have to prove yourself to them.

That might depend on where the law in each country places the onus of proof.

In UK the onus of proof is on the prosecuting authority.

 

[Coolcats]

But the point was the connection between number plate and passport.

Number plate does not prove who was in the vehicle.

In general terms the numberplate has a keeper, the keeper has a driving licence the driving licence has some shared info with passports. Of course as you say it doesn’t prove who was in the vehicle but if that vehicle overstays my guess it’s going to be the owner who is going to get pulled up….unless you can prove the owner was not driving.

 

[Coolcats]

That might depend on where the law in each country places the onus of proof.

In UK the onus of proof is on the prosecuting authority.

Really ? So your driving a car that has been cloned the car has been reported as speeding if the court / police are unaware of a cloned vehicle it will be the driver/owner who will need to prove they were not in the area at that time.

 

[nicholsong]

In general terms the numberplate has a keeper, the keeper has a driving licence the driving licence has some shared info with passports. Of course as you say it doesn’t prove who was in the vehicle but if that vehicle overstays my guess it’s going to be the owner who is going to get pulled up….unless you can prove the owner was not driving.

Bit of a long trail for Mr. Plod to follow, if the Chef of Police gives him the resources and finance.

 

[gus-lopez]

Why is mine any different to yours, therefore precluding me from visiting any Schengen country?

Because the visa is for France only & the multiple entry/exits have to be done through passport stamping borders even if you have to find one to stamp it.

So we have just entered France via the tunnel and transited through France and Spain into Portugal how do they know where I am as we have had no further border checks?

Cameras.

At the end of the day what is the crime that British tourists would be committing by wishing to ‘swan around the rest of the EU’?

They just want to enjoy the countries and, more importantly, spend money there.

Then they should have stayed in the club

Doesn’t link to your passport though does it?

Yes.Presentation of your passport ,& any other persons in the vehicle, is inextricably linked via the automatic photo of the front & rear registration `plates all done at the same time.

Exactly so it’s no different than with a French visaexcept he can stay 180 days in total.

Yes, in France

Number plate does not prove who was in the vehicle.

As above, it is linked on presentation via cameras..

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[Coolcats]

Bit of a long trail for Mr. Plod to follow, if the Chef of Police gives him the resources and finance.

Erm its all standard data held within the PNC each countries police force will have similar, if a Police car with ANPR picks up a suspect vehicle the police officer get a ping on thier system to pull the vehicle over and have a chat.

"Along with individual “Names” files there are also vehicle files which contains information from the DVLA regarding ownership, tax records, and other vehicle records. Crime reports can also be attached to these vehicle records."

 

[Speve]

Erm its all standard data held within the PNC each countries police force will have similar, if a Police car with ANPR picks up a suspect vehicle the police officer get a ping on thier system to pull the vehicle over and have a chat.

"Along with individual “Names” files there are also vehicle files which contains information from the DVLA regarding ownership, tax records, and other vehicle records. Crime reports can also be attached to these vehicle records."

I think you will find Uk are not exchanging details with EU there was an article somewhere about speeding fines on UK registered vehicles not being prosecuted due to this

 

[Coolcats]

Because the visa is for France only & the multiple entry/exits have to be done through passport stamping borders even if you have to find one to stamp it.

Cameras.

Then they should have stayed in the club

Yes.Presentation of your passport ,& any other persons in the vehicle, is inextricably linked via the automatic photo of the front & rear registration `plates all done at the same time.

Yes, in France

As above, it is linked on presentation via cameras..

Nicely put, my guess is people do not understand what technology is 'out there' how it is being used for mass surveillance which means physical checks such as hard borders can be removed, the issue comes when this is not understood and the belief that they will not and cannot be found out. It will be interesting to see what happens over time and what if any types of 'punishment' or fines introduced.

 

[Coolcats]

I think you will find Uk are not exchanging details with EU there was an article somewhere about speeding fines on UK registered vehicles not being prosecuted due to this

We are not talking about speeding, we are discussing entry to another country and overstaying, there is a theme running in these threads that it doesn't matter and no one will know...... Yes they will and I suspect the hardened repeat offender will get pulled up. Just like the guy who was arguing with ticket staff at the terminal about the Bikes on the back of his Motorhome who was pulled over........my guess is he had to pay the extra and may or may not have made the sailing he intended particularly as he was abusive and security was called.

 

[Carpmart]

We are not talking about speeding, we are discussing entry to another country and overstaying, there is a theme running in these threads that it doesn't matter and no one will know...... Yes they will and I suspect the hardened repeat offender will get pulled up. Just like the guy who was arguing with ticket staff at the terminal about the Bikes on the back of his Motorhome who was pulled over........my guess is he had to pay the extra and may or may not have made the sailing he intended particularly as he was abusive and security was called.

I’m not sure I see these threads in quite the way you do. The reason I and others are interested in working this out is so that (I believe) we can all stay the correct side of ‘the rules’. The rules are complicated and somewhat nuanced, hence the discussions.

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