Beating the 90/180 day Schengen rule

[uzsnowdrop]

You’re correct, the France via runs for a finite 6 mth period and allows multi entry during that time frame. My view is that if I enter and exit via a French port, that’s highly likely to be the only time anyone checks my passport. Therefore, as long as I’m within the date range of the visa, is the customs official when I leave France going to care where I’ve been during those 6 months? If they do care, do they have any easy way of checking?

And that’s a key point- are they really going to care about Brits overstaying? They may, and that will probably be politically driven. What I’m hearing and seeing, is that at present they don’t. I’ve heard of people who have already exceeded the 90/180 days entering and exiting through Malaga airport and if arriving from U.K. the customs official just stamps them in, no questions asked. It comes down to interpretation of rules and attitude to risk at the end of the day I guess.

Go for it mate, enjoy your trip, you are a pioneer for the rest of us and good on you for testing it out.

 

[Dwarfland]

For the first 90 days, it would appear to be no grey area - you have the same Schengen entry stamp so if you are stopped in Spain or have your passport examined at a campsite, you are the same as everyone else.
After 90 days following your initial entry into France you may be into a game of explaining to officialdom in Spain (other Schengen countries are available) that you have been staying in France using the French visa and only popped over there for a few days. That is obviously harder than just being a "normal" tourist within the 90 day rule. Whether you would ever be pulled up on that is another matter. I'd certainly be trying to ensure I left via France at the end of the 180 days.

This, and roaming mobiles, used to be so much simpler - it's now a minefield of needing to know little bits of things from multiple sources

Yes definitely, we must enter and exit through France. And yes it’s now very complicated. A minefield of red tape to negotiate to get the visa as detailed in the webpage I added, and most will decide it’s too much effort and stick to 90/180. The point of my post was to show that there maybe a way to stay longer but it’s not simple, and may not appeal to more risk averse types.

 

[MisterB]

As I don't know what your stamp is, i can't comment on its validity, or whether Border Control stamped it in error or in the wrong place or right place. What I can tell you is that I would not assume that it allowed me to circumnavigate long established rules of law by personal interpretation of those laws and I certainly would not put myself forward as the guinea pig under those circumstances.
Your interpretation may in fact be correct, though I suspect it may not be.
As Clint Eastwood said, are you feeling lucky ....?

Enjoy your holiday, which is what we all want, best wishes.

 

[Dwarfland]

As I don't know what your stamp is, i can't comment on its validity, or whether Border Control stamped it in error or in the wrong place or right place. What I can tell you is that I would not assume that it allowed me to circumnavigate long established rules of law by personal interpretation of those laws and I certainly would not put myself forward as the guinea pig under those circumstances.
Your interpretation may in fact be correct, though I suspect it may not be.
As Clint Eastwood said, are you feeling lucky ....?

You seem somewhat cowed and in awe of authority and rules mate. As NWA said ‘fight the power!’

 

[mofurt]

It's not 100% clear to me, is the 180 days a one-shot 180? And is it fixed start/end time?

e.g. will the visa say that it is valid for travel between 15th June and 12 December (precise travel dates), say that it is valid until x date (e.g. valid to be used for 2 years), and if the latter, if I was to go to France using it this year, would I have to apply for a new one next year?

My guess is that the start date is somewhat flexible, but I'd have to apply for each 180 day stay and pay the fees each time. Could easily be wrong though

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[Dwarfland]

It's not 100% clear to me, is the 180 days a one-shot 180? And is it fixed start/end time?

e.g. will the visa say that it is valid for travel between 15th June and 12 December (precise travel dates), say that it is valid until x date (e.g. valid to be used for 2 years), and if the latter, if I was to go to France using it this year, would I have to apply for a new one next year?

My guess is that the start date is somewhat flexible, but I'd have to apply for each 180 day stay and pay the fees each time. Could easily be wrong though

Your interpretation is correct. It’s for a fixed period with set dates. If you wanted to travel beyond that you’d have to start the process all over again.

 

[MisterB]

As for leaving France during your 6 month visa If I felt so inclined, it wouldn't bother me for a couple of weeks here and there, to visit other countries, so long as passports weren't being checked,

That doesn't sound like being cowed and in awe of authority

You seem somewhat cowed and in awe of authority and rules mate. As NWA said ‘fight the power!’

As I spent the last few years of my fire service career as an elected full time trade union official, i don't think those who nominated and elected me (and effectively paid my wages our of their trade union subscriptions) did so because of my being cowed and in awe of authority and rules, mate.

 

[Speve]

The french and other countries do have computers they ‘know’ when you arrive and ‘know’ when you leave.

So we have just entered France via the tunnel and transited through France and Spain into Portugal how do they know where I am as we have had no further border checks?

 

[Dwarfland]

So we have just entered France via the tunnel and transited through France and Spain into Portugal how do they know where I am as we have had no further border checks?

That’s my point. The only checks on your passport are at point of entry and exit from U.K. I’m sure there’s a way of tracking your vehicle’s movement across borders and there may be a way of linking passports to vehicles but we’re getting into deep state surveillance stuff there and I doubt the bloke in the box at Calais has the password for that particular database!

 

[Speve]

That’s my point. The only checks on your passport are at point of entry and exit from U.K. I’m sure there’s a way of tracking your vehicle’s movement across borders and there may be a way of linking passports to vehicles but we’re getting into deep state surveillance stuff there and I doubt the bloke in the box at Calais has the password for that particular database!

Exactly we are just doing a short trip but no different if it was a 90 day so with your visa it can’t be policed so I would assume as long as you exit on or before your 180 from France no problem, I think sometimes folk overthink this and worry to much? Life’s to short enjoy your trip

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[Barti Ddu]

So we have just entered France via the tunnel and transited through France and Spain into Portugal how do they know where I am as we have had no further border checks?

They don't. And they won't care either as you're within the usual 90/180 day rules.

What is exercising minds here, is what would happen if having entered France on a 180 day French Tourist visa, you had a road accident, (or presented yourself for hospital treatment, or needed to report a robbery, or had any other contact with the authorities) in Spain on the 91st day after you entered France.

 

[Carpmart]

They don't. And they won't care either as you're within the usual 90/180 day rules.

What is exercising minds here, is what would happen if having entered France on a 180 day French Tourist visa, you had a road accident, (or presented yourself for hospital treatment, or needed to report a robbery, or had any other contact with the authorities) in Spain on the 91st day after you entered France.

You’d have to decide, do I lie and tell them I’ve just arrived… recipe to being found out, called out and fined or do I come clean?

 

[dunnah01]

I’m sure some doomsayers will tell you you need to have return ferries booked but no. To get the French visa you need to provide outbound ferry booking but not return. You also need an accommodation address for which I provided 1st night campsite address and a rough plan of where we intended to travel.

Did the rough plan of where you intended to travel include any time out of France in your visa application?

 

[Dwarfland]

You’d have to decide, do I lie and tell them I’ve just arrived… recipe to being found out, called out and fined or do I come clean?

You’d have to be pretty daft to offer up that information. You’d just say I’m within my 90 Schengen days. That’s also assuming the France visa doesn’t cover travel into other Schengen countries, which I was told it does. I’ll try to dig out the email to confirm.

 

[Dwarfland]

Did the rough plan of where you intended to travel include any time out of France in your visa application?

I mentioned a couple of weeks in Spain and Germany but made clear that the majority of time would be in France.

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[Hems]

They don't. And they won't care either as you're within the usual 90/180 day rules.

What is exercising minds here, is what would happen if having entered France on a 180 day French Tourist visa, you had a road accident, (or presented yourself for hospital treatment, or needed to report a robbery, or had any other contact with the authorities) in Spain on the 91st day after you entered France.

You’d have to decide, do I lie and tell them I’ve just arrived… recipe to being found out, called out and fined or do I come clean?

But shouldnt be a problem if you have Schengen days available? For example, 80 days spent in France on the visa, then 11 days allowed from 90/180 rule

Edit post 44 beat me to it

 

[Dwarfland]

They don't. And they won't care either as you're within the usual 90/180 day rules.

What is exercising minds here, is what would happen if having entered France on a 180 day French Tourist visa, you had a road accident, (or presented yourself for hospital treatment, or needed to report a robbery, or had any other contact with the authorities) in Spain on the 91st day after you entered France.

On the health point, you’re covered on your EU health card up to its expiry date, irrespective of visa status. Once that expires you need travel health insurance as you do for anywhere else in the world.

 

[Coolcats]

So we have just entered France via the tunnel and transited through France and Spain into Portugal how do they know where I am as we have had no further border checks?

I assume you paid for tickets for the rail journey, you will be buying fuel with your debit credit card, use a mobile phone they also have ANPR so your vehicle is tracked from boarding to your destination and back. How do they know? Well the digital fairies and the breadcrumb trail may inform them.

 

[Southdowners]

I assume you paid for tickets for the rail journey, you will be buying fuel with your debit credit card, use a mobile phone they also have ANPR so your vehicle is tracked from boarding to your destination and back. How do they know? Well the digital fairies and the breadcrumb trail may inform them.

Of course you can be tracked if the authorities wanted to do so but are they likely to.

To access pings from phone masts and info from banking transactions, etc would take an inordinate amount of time and effort. So, unless you’ve committed a serious crime, I would say it would be extremely unlikely any digital checks would be made.

 

[Barti Ddu]

I admire the OP's pioneering spirit, but I think that he is pushing the validity of the French Tourist Visa to it's limit and beyond, just with fingers crossed that you don't get caught. Otherwise, the rest of the EU would presumably not be happy that the French have unilaterally ridden roughshod over the Schengen rules allowing extended stays across the whole region. Can't help but think that one or two member states may seek to make examples of anyone who gets caught (even if in reality getting caught is unlikely).

Regarding, "multi entry" - I presume that this is because the French Tourist Visa was introduced primarily for Brits who had second homes in France who wanted to use them more than the usual 90 days, but not enough to have to take the plunge and seek residency. Therefore they can visit their French homes from the UK as many times as they like within the visa's validity period, but not swan around the rest of the EU.

Anyway, good luck to the OP - I'd be interested to read more about how he gets on. The French Tourist Visa is something I've considered using myself, but without "trying to rip the arse out of it" around the rest of Europe so to speak!

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[Dwarfland]

I assume you paid for tickets for the rail journey, you will be buying fuel with your debit credit card, use a mobile phone they also have ANPR so your vehicle is tracked from boarding to your destination and back. How do they know? Well the digital fairies and the breadcrumb trail may inform them.

I assume this was written with tongue firmly in cheek. If not you’ve been watching too many spy movies!

 

[Southdowners]

At the end of the day what is the crime that British tourists would be committing by wishing to ‘swan around the rest of the EU’?

They just want to enjoy the countries and, more importantly, spend money there.

 

[Langtoftlad]

So we have just entered France via the tunnel and transited through France and Spain into Portugal how do they know where I am as we have had no further border checks?

ANPR

 

[Dwarfland]

ANPR

Doesn’t link to your passport though does it?

 

[Rapido925M]

At the end of the day what is the crime that British tourists would be committing by wishing to ‘swan around the rest of the EU’?

They just want to enjoy the countries and, more importantly, spend money there.

ONLY the Schengen law that says, simplisitically, anyone who isn't a resident of the EU can only spend 90 days out of 180 in the Area.
WE chose to leave the club: now we need to obey their rules like every other non-member. (Or accept the penalty.)

Gordon

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[uzsnowdrop]

French border control office 2022…..

“Hey Pierre we av some of zose rosbifs outside with a big white van, zey give me ziss visa”
“ Alors Michel, zat is one of zose visas for the gite owners, do they have a gite?’
“I will ask them if they av a gite”

….. “ Pierre, zey say they av a gite in their van and zat zey even carry a spare gite box”
“Zut alors Michel! zose feelthy breeetish cochon , ow did we ever say zey could be oooropean?”
“ Pierre I am ow you say, , tres tres appy zat zey left, it azz been such ‘appy times , lets go and pretend we actually care about zose silly little angle morts steeckers and blow some smoke in zere little rosbif faces. “
“Non , even funnier , zey sink we care about ze petit ‘uk’ stickers! We must be tres vite, we av to shut zis merde border post in cinque minoots, zo we can go for our 3 lunch zen go and see our mistresses non?”
“ oh oui, zose poor rosbif, only 90 days away from Boris and zey have to pay gross eoooros to bring zere how you say , ‘cockagite’ chien over ‘ere’, hehe”
“ zey can av zis visa back, tell the rosbifs to go and turn off ze car number plate machine”
“Turn it off? Is it supposed to be on? “

 

[jumar]

So we have just entered France via the tunnel and transited through France and Spain into Portugal how do they know where I am as we have had no further border checks?

They don't need to know because you are in a controlled Schengen Zone...you can move about as you wish for a total of 90 days...you then exit the Schengen Zone...stamp in stamp out....just how simple is this....

 

[gpat]

Doesn’t link to your passport though does it?

No it doesn't.

 

[gpat]

Of course you can be tracked if the authorities wanted to do so but are they likely to.

To access pings from phone masts and info from banking transactions, etc would take an inordinate amount of time and effort. So, unless you’ve committed a serious crime, I would say it would be extremely unlikely any digital checks would be made.

Agreed. The only check will be the scanning of your passport at the border of the Schengen zone. In and then out.

 

[jumar]

I haven't seen any Brit expats on here who are restricted by the recent changes kicking off, and trying to find a workaround to travel as they wish...we didn't get a vote...but we are restricted just the same as the residents of the UK....and most, not all, obey the law and accept the change...
If those who needed to be in Europe for the maximum duration possible not think about becoming an EU resident....is the UK so bad that you have to be out as long as possible, if so join us and get a better life....

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