A Frame Disaster

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Realist said:
Had mine installed by Towtal in Stoke On Trent, they even come to my home, left their customer car for us to use, took our car away did the work and returned it.

That was well over 15 months ago and so far we’re happy, but I’m installing the extra coupling for my own piece of mind.

Regards.
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Is it an electronic braking system as don't understand your cable to brake pedal set up
 
pelican said:
Is it an electronic braking system as don't understand your cable to brake pedal set up
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No bud it’s physically clipped onto the peddle when needed.

Ie. Cable direct from the A Frame to the cars peddle so when we slow down the A Frame moves and pulls the brake peddle on the car.

Easy system and when the A Frame is removed I just unclip the cable from the brake pedal and back to normal.

Ps,

As for indicators I don’t use the cars I use wireless magnetic lights as below…. The reason I use them is the car we pull has LED lights and wiring them up via direct connection to our motorhome caused issues so we went down the route of a rear board.

But we dropped the board for the below.

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Realist said:
No bud it’s physically clipped onto the peddle when needed.

Ie. Cable direct from the A Frame to the cars peddle so when we slow down the A Frame moves and pulls the brake peddle on the car.

Easy system and when the A Frame is removed I just unclip the cable from the brake pedal and back to normal.

Ps,

As for indicators I don’t use the cars I use wireless magnetic lights as below…. The reason I use them is the car we pull has LED lights and wiring them up via direct connection to our motorhome caused issues so we went down the route of a rear board.

But we dropped the board for the below.

View attachment 553828
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Thank you very much for all info. I guess you have the std A frame using the over-run braking system.
 
Larrynwin said:
Don’t like them then ? and how many accidents have been caused as a result of flat towing with a frames , perhaps in comparison to accidents with caravans in tow .
More unnecessary scaremongering based on a personal opinion . Perhaps you could provide a link to statistics of accidents linked to a frame towing.
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There is statistical data available the transport department publish a yearly report specifically regarding trailers and carires data from the police form19 and other sources.The last report i have found 2019 ...indicate no injuries or incidents regarding Aframes....however 120 incidents from caravans ( not always the fault of the caravan driver) and semi trailer it is 2000 Incidents plus.

The question regarding extra certification and inspection was raised and a cost /benefit analysis done..it found it to be of little benefit (except potentially for theft) and to be prohibitively expensive for the relatively few drivers involved and with little statistical risk to mitigate.
 
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Realist said:
The only other way of detachment is if the car gets detached from the A Frame again the cars actual brakes come into play.
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What have you got that makes the car’s brakes come into play?
 
Pausim said:
What have you got that makes the car’s brakes come into play?
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I like others can only hope and fall back on the actual brake cable itself to be applied, A Frames have nothing in place to stop a car that actually gets detached from the frame.

So far there have been no reports of this happening.
 
Realist said:
I like others can only hope and fall back on the actual brake cable itself to be applied, A Frames have nothing in place to stop a car that actually gets detached from the frame.

So far there have been no reports of this happening.
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That maybe the case for overrun braking but not for all and as a general statement it is incorrect and misleading.

Please read my earlier posts with regard to the RVi Brake unit and similar where the breakaway cable pulls a switch attached to the car that instantly powers the brake unit to stop the car irrespective of which end of the a frame detaches.
 
Larrynwin said:
That maybe the case for overrun braking but not for all and as a general statement it is incorrect and misleading.

Please read my earlier posts with regard to the RVi Brake unit and similar where the breakaway cable pulls a switch attached to the car that instantly powers the brake unit to stop the car irrespective of which end of the a frame detaches.
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I’ll rephrase, my A Frame.

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Realist said:
No bud it’s physically clipped onto the peddle when needed.

Ie. Cable direct from the A Frame to the cars peddle so when we slow down the A Frame moves and pulls the brake peddle on the car.

Easy system and when the A Frame is removed I just unclip the cable from the brake pedal and back to normal.

Ps,

As for indicators I don’t use the cars I use wireless magnetic lights as below…. The reason I use them is the car we pull has LED lights and wiring them up via direct connection to our motorhome caused issues so we went down the route of a rear board.

But we dropped the board for the below.

View attachment 553828View attachment 553830
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That would be because it is wired incorrectly. Other suppliers can wire directly to the car’s Canbus system, but I’ve heard this complaint before about this company!
 
Realist said:
I like others can only hope and fall back on the actual brake cable itself to be applied, A Frames have nothing in place to stop a car that actually gets detached from the frame.

So far there have been no reports of this happening.
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That is another untruth! You say there have been no reports? What do you think the original post was that you nicked off a private FB Group? Only inertia braked systems utilise a handbrake on the coupling. That technology is fine for trailers (for which it was designed) but not truly suitable for an a-frame/towed car set up.
TAF is one company that bucks the trend. They use inertia braking but, as they take advantage of the secondary coupling legislation, a handbrake on the a-frame would be fairly pointless.

More modern a-frame installations have electronically activated brakes. It covers all scenarios, if installed correctly but sadly, it wasn’t the case in the original post. There was no emergency breakaway system installed. A major failing on the part of the supplier.
 
TonyEmm said:
That would be because it is wired incorrectly. Other suppliers can wire directly to the car’s Canbus system, but I’ve heard this complaint before about this company!
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No it’s not wired incorrectly at all, it was much choice not to interfere with the cars electrical systems and use a rear board but again decided to use a wireless lighting system.
 
TonyEmm said:
That is another untruth! You say there have been no reports? What do you think the original post was that you nicked off a private FB Group? Only inertia braked systems utilise a handbrake on the coupling. That technology is fine for trailers (for which it was designed) but not truly suitable for an a-frame/towed car set up.
TAF is one company that bucks the trend. They use inertia braking but, as they take advantage of the secondary coupling legislation, a handbrake on the a-frame would be fairly pointless.

More modern a-frame installations have electronically activated brakes. It covers all scenarios, if installed correctly but sadly, it wasn’t the case in the original post. There was no emergency breakaway system installed. A major failing on the part of the supplier.
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No The one above is one from thousands of A Frames on the road that are all well maintained but the one above was a crap design and the owner not maintaining, checking the system and other major missed factors.
 
gus-lopez said:
Which in itself is illegal. Up to 750kgs unbraked you have a cable attaching the trailer to the vehicle to prevent separation. Up to 750kgs braked & over 750 kgs require the breakaway cable to activate the trailers brakes by various means. usually just pulling on the spring loaded handbrake then the cable 'snaps' allowing the trailer to slow on its own. You mst not have a secondary cable to prevent separation as it stops the breakaway cable from working.


Ther is no different an 'A' framed car is a caravan or trailer.You cannot have it both ways?

Because the law states that most vehicles have to have there own registration, certaily here in the case of trailers over 750kgs + separate insurance & tax. under only require a ficha tecnica detailed mechanical logbook ,unless used for trade then they have to be registered .That's why you can't tow a car.


A trailer has one of these.

View attachment 553338

only difference if it is registered is that it has a regsitration number.

No the law doesn't state anyting.Because it hasn't been tested they are deemed 'acceptable'. They are neither legal nor illegal yet.

As above they are not legal either,just accepted.

That shold mean they are banned then the same as caravans & trailers as yo only have to look at the rubbish & condition that the vast maority are dragging around.

Which would render it illegal due to modifications to the chassis meaning the CoC has been breached & the vehicle should not be allowed on the road without a sva .

As above makes the veicle dangerous.

As previous it has nothing to do with "towing with anything" nothing is allowed it is due to as posted above. It is a separate vehicle.

& as I stated above the shortness of that will doubtflly allow operation of the breakaway fnction to operate the brakes.

Which would be better but surely drags on the ground?

but only meant to be used on unbraked trailers up to 750kgs.
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gus-lopez said:
Now this is where I have a problem.
The difference between towing a purpose built homologated trailer that in many cases has to have been inspected & tested the same as a road veicle before being allowed its certification. As against the above that appears to be a well manufactred system by the looks but requires on being installed & removed & lots of threaded bar.The trailer has one weak point which is the attachment of the ball to the hitch.An A frame has many

Wold you like to be legally towing that at 130km/hr. 80 mph which is the limit on French roads? It isn't on to state that people go slowly etc;etc, most don't.
Having said that on 2 occasions that I have mentioned before I have been overtaken on the M5 by Mh's towing A framed cars in excess of 80mph.
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Gus, you started this last reply with ""Now this is where I have a problem."" you seem to have a problem with A frames per-say, can we just leave it there, as a lot of people use them and use them in a safe and sensible manner.

The thread is getting boring and is just going round in circles with peoples posts being quoted out of context etc.

I and many others have no problems with people using Trailers, A Frames or Motor bikes on the back of the van. As long as they are doing it safely.

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Realist said:
I will also install a coupling between the actual A Frame which loops over the tow ball so if effect if it does gets detached the actual A Frame will al least not hit the floor and I may have a chance to get to safety, but I still have the two other options.

The only other way of detachment is if the car gets detached from the A Frame again the cars actual brakes come into play.
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Installing a secondary coupling defeats the whole object of the couplings handbrake and breakaway cable system. You will disable it from working.
on an inertia set up like yours, if the A -frame detached from the car, you’ve blown it. The car’s brakes will NOT activate, there’d be nothing left to apply them!
I said this morning, as a user, you really ought to learn how the system works.
 
Realist said:
No The one above is one from thousands of A Frames on the road that are all well maintained but the one above was a crap design and the owner not maintaining, checking the system and other major missed factors.
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You are making assumptions!
 
Ok I’ve tried my best to be mindful of the very reason I started this thread and over time it’s become a bitch upon bitch finger poking means to this is wrong, that’s wrong, this has no cert, not compliant etc etc.

So those that wish to continue here go for it but I’m blocking Tony because he’s one boring fart and blocking this thread because it’s going way beyond the reason for its original idea.

Best wishes all, I’ll be unable to reply or see any comments further on.

Good luck all and please don’t listen to the idiots about that are hell bent on seeing the end of the A Frame.
 
Realist said:
No it’s not wired incorrectly at all, it was much choice not to interfere with the cars electrical systems and use a rear board but again decided to use a wireless lighting system.
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So if you chose not to wire into the car‘s wiring system, do you have front marker lamps?

is it a C1 you tow? If so, it’s over 1.6mt wide and legally needs operational front position lamps…

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Realist said:
Ok I’ve tried my best to be mindful of the very reason I started this thread and over time it’s become a bitch upon bitch finger poking means to this is wrong, that’s wrong, this has no cert, not compliant etc etc.

So those that wish to continue here go for it but I’m blocking Tony because he’s one boring fart and blocking this thread because it’s going way beyond the reason for its original idea.

Best wishes all, I’ll be unable to reply or see any comments further on.

Good luck all and please don’t listen to the idiots about that are hell bent on seeing the end of the A Frame.
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The thread has moved on from the original posting, thank heaven! It’s actually become very informative, with input from those who know how their a-frame works! Fortunately, that is the greater majority.
sadly, that majority doesn’t include yourself.
 
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All this cars braking away from the aframe seems all fake news and is posted to put fear into those who do tow with the aframe
I wounded if I arranged a meeting with those who posted these post how many people would turn
One maybe ?
 
So reading through all the cr@p and bluster on this thread the useful info seems to be:
  • If the A-frame comes away from the car a breakaway cable won't work as, although it may initially put the car's brakes on, once it actually breaks away from the towing vehicle the car's brakes will no longer be applied so it will freewheel, therefore the only 'safe' set-up is to NOT just rely on a cable to apply the brakes but have a proper electronic method that will trigger the car to apply the brakes and keep them on and work whether or not the car being towed is still attached to the MH or A-frame.

  • Ensure that the installation of the A-frame attachment points on the car are done in such a way that they are fixed to a strong part of it, or have a 'beam' put on and sufficiently secured to the car's strong structure, so that the A-frame cannot break/pull off.

  • Ensure that you, or your garage, check the attachment points on the car for corrosion etc EVERY YEAR to ensure they are still safe to use.
 
One further comment, if you DO rely purely on a breakaway cable and the A-frame becomes detached from the towing vehicle, the the cable should do it's job and apply the brakes however if you slow the towing vehicle down there's a chance that the car could run into the back of it!

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