A Frame Disaster

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TonyEmm said:
The rules written with trailers in mind. The most common failing there is the coupling separating from the towball. Either a breakaway cable or a secondary coupling would achieve the objective there.

Only once in 30 years have I known a drawbar fall off a trailer. But that is the most likely failing where an a-frame is concerned. In that scenario, both breakaway cable cable and secondary are ineffective, they are still correctly attached between ball and coupling!
This is precisely why Trailer braking regulations are not fit for A-frames.
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Perhaps the whole issue goes away with the advent of EVs, which I believe can not be flat towed.
 
Minxy Girl said:
Jim can you PLEASE sort out the bickering parties on here, it's ruining what could be an 'informative' thread.
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Don’t wish to cause hassle Mel but sometimes people cannot just stand back and yes this thread is very helpful.

Also the reason no company name has been mentioned is because as Tony posted on Facebook it’s now in the hands of a solicitor, trading standards and DVSA safety branch.

Tony might get his wish soon by getting A Frames banned, shame.
 
charliesgrandad said:
Like many, I have been following this thread, and there have been many views from many people, but why as no one mentioned what was quoted on page one of this thread, it was said the installer had till Monday to respond before the name of the installer could be revealed, it is now Wednesday and still no mention of it
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I can answer that!

the company refused to open a dialogue with the user. On Monday, a solicitors letter was received threatening legal action if the company’s name was disclosed.
Only an idiot would then announce it on social media!

I can say that is also in the hands of Trading Standards as well as the Vehicle Safety Branch of the DVSA.
it may be a while before the company is exposed.
All I can say is, exercise caution if looking to purchase an a-frame, do your homework and do not believe everything certain companies publish on their websites.
 
TonyEmm said:
I can answer that!

the company refused to open a dialogue with the user. On Monday, a solicitors letter was received threatening legal action if the company’s name was disclosed.
Only an idiot would then announce it on social media!

I can say that is also in the hands of Trading Standards as well as the Vehicle Safety Branch of the DVSA.
it may be a while before the company is exposed.
All I can say is, exercise caution if looking to purchase an a-frame, do your homework and do not believe everything certain companies publish on their websites.
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As stated above, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES MENTION SAID COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY FOR THAT MATTER AS YOU MAY FIND YOURSELF IN DO DA.

Just keep this thread going for info purposes only please.
 
Pausim said:
Perhaps the whole issue goes away with the advent of EVs, which I believe can not be flat towed.
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Now that changes the argument completely! As you say the great majority of ev’s cannot be flat towed. Unless there is a technological change, it will be the end of the a-frame supply industry.
 
Realist said:
Don’t wish to cause hassle Mel but sometimes people cannot just stand back and yes this thread is very helpful.

Also the reason no company name has been mentioned is because as Tony posted on Facebook it’s now in the hands of a solicitor, trading standards and DVSA safety branch.

Tony might get his wish soon by getting A Frames banned, shame.
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YOU STILL HAVEN’T GOT IT have you?

I have never called for a-frames to be banned, I want controls in place and suitable regulation!

All these posts and you still haven’t got the message…. It is not, and never has been, my wish to ban a-frames, Is that clear enough for you?


I have things to do, I Don’t have time for bickering with someone who misinterprets almost everything I say, assuming he reads it in the first place! I’m off out!

Bonne Journee!
 
TonyEmm said:
YOU STILL HAVEN’T GOT IT have you?

I have never called for a-frames to be banned, I want controls in place and suitable regulation!

All these posts and you still haven’t got the message…. It is not, and never has been, my wish to ban a-frames, Is that clear enough for you?
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Stop posting regulations relating to trailers and leave it to the experts (government).
 
DuxDeluxe said:
No…. I am not interested in who did or did not vote for BXit. In your eagerness to make your point you appear to have misread what I actually said - 99% of people don’t care about A frames. Why you have to introduce our exit from the EU, I have no idea

and by the way…. Yourself and gus-lopez, I am well aware of how the law works; it is one of the great things about the law of England and Wales - it is legal until proven otherwise, like many, many things. That is how law should work, rather than something proscribed by somebody.
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If I remember correctly, this different approach to legality (in general) in European law derives from the legal code introduced by Napoleon. These diminutive French leaders can cause no end of trouble. 😁
 
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Realist said:
Stop posting regulations relating to trailers and leave it to the experts (government).
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That is the funniest thing I’ve heard from you!

bye for now!

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I think I speak for a few on here who are getting as exasperated as me with the constant sniping etc when I say "Give me strength!"!!!!

Can you two PLEASE stop it, if you want to have 'tiffs' do it via PM or elsewhere and leave this thread alone. trying to weed out all the useful info from the dross is getting difficult.
 
Minxy Girl said:
I think I speak for a few on here who are getting as exasperated as me with the constant sniping etc when I say "Give me strength!"!!!!

Can you two PLEASE stop it, if you want to have 'tiffs' do it via PM or elsewhere and leave this thread alone. trying to weed out all the useful info from the dross is getting difficult.
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You go girl 👧 lol 😆
 
Pausim said:
I am finding there are points of interest on both sides of the argument. Shame about the bickering.

Surely that applies to both the inertia breakaway and secondary coupling systems. One is attached to the A frame and the other relies on the A frame handbrake. They are both designed to help if the coupling breaks free but are ineffective if the A frame breaks away from the car.
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This is the advantage of a non overrun in car powered braking system eg RVi Brake etc ,which in the event of a frame separation from towing vehicle or car , will operate the cars brakes .

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On my system I have a breakaway cable plus a cable to the actual foot pedal of the car so if it gets detached I have two systems of braking means but……..

I will also install a coupling between the actual A Frame which loops over the tow ball so if effect if it does gets detached the actual A Frame will al least not hit the floor and I may have a chance to get to safety, but I still have the two other options.

The only other way of detachment is if the car gets detached from the A Frame again the cars actual brakes come into play.

So far my frame is well built heavy I might add but solid as a rock.
 
TOADs are illegal 'over there' and therefore require a trailer. I gather there is a reluctance to add trailers to the list of kit required for a supplementary vehicle( space, weight, cost etc). If abroad do TOAD'ies a) use a trailer or b) leaver the supplementary vehicle behind? If UK decided to adopt a 'European' stance would TOAD'ies a) get a trailer b)manage without c) get a smaller moho?
 
poppycamper said:
NEXT....???? But surely if those countries make them illegal it is for a very good reason.
Yes I appreciate you live in UK and I am not asking you to speculate why they are illegal there... BUT do you not wonder why they have made them illegal and we have not.!!!
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Are they illegal? Who says so
Plenty tow in the EU with no issues
 
Conniedriving said:
Are they illegal? Who says so
Plenty tow in the EU with no issues
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Some of the countries specifically ban towing another vehicle behind another on it's own wheel, Spain is one example, their country, their law.

You will see people doing it, they are taking the risk of being caught/fined, some have been, some haven't ... how good their luck is is anybody's guess!
 
Yeh Spain is one country that A Frames you do take a risk in using one. If I decide to take a car abroad then I’ll consider a trailer just to be country compliant, but again I’ll have no place to store it at home.

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You may see them but Spanish Police have pulled them over and made them remove the A Frame and drive the car under its own steam so to speak.
 
Realist said:
On my system I have a breakaway cable plus a cable to the actual foot pedal of the car so if it gets detached I have two systems of braking means but……..

I will also install a coupling between the actual A Frame which loops over the tow ball so if effect if it does gets detached the actual A Frame will al least not hit the floor and I may have a chance to get to safety, but I still have the two other options.

The only other way of detachment is if the car gets detached from the A Frame again the cars actual brakes come into play.

So far my frame is well built heavy I might add but solid as a rock.
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Which company supplied you system please. Is it the electronic type.
 
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pelican said:
Which company supplied you system please.
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Had mine installed by Towtal in Stoke On Trent, they even come to my home, left their customer car for us to use, took our car away did the work and returned it.

That was well over 15 months ago and so far we’re happy, but I’m installing the extra coupling for my own piece of mind.

Regards.
 
Pausim said:
But the statistics for A frame accidents do not bear out the risk..in fact quite the reverse.the last published Government report 2019 detailing results from accident form19s .A frames were not mentioned or found to be an issue..despite the personal viewd of Aframe abolishonists... 'that year 2019 there awere 120 accidents involving caravans (not always the fault of the caravan driver and over 2500 incidents involving artics. The risk to using A frames is so small it does not require mitigation .
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