90 days or more in Europe

[MisterB]

Back to the OP, i think the calculation will be different for everyone, based on their own personal trips within the zone. on that basis, i still think I am right in my calculations that if you do a small trip 'early doors' to get the clock ticking then you can still enjoy virtually all summer (or all winter) - so long as you break the visit for a short period midway through, so your second phase starts after your initial 180 days

 

[Brakers]

More than half didn't vote.

And who's fault was that??

 

[bigtwin]

Back to the OP, i think the calculation will be different for everyone, based on their own personal trips within the zone. on that basis, i still think I am right in my calculations that if you do a small trip 'early doors' to get the clock ticking then you can still enjoy virtually all summer (or all winter) - so long as you break the visit for a short period midway through, so your second phase starts after your initial 180 days

There are no phases. It’s a 180 day rolling assessment period. Taking a small trip early doors will, in fact, be to your detriment.

The only uncertainty in my mind is whether or not on Brexit Day they apply the rule to the letter and count back 180 days which will determines whether or not you could travel to the Schengen zone on Brexit Day +1 OR whether they give us a concession and allow the assessment period to begin on Brexit Day.

Ian

 

[Northernraider]

It's possible their system will be the same as some of the parking company cctv ! I am in middle of second PCN for staying too long in car park , they said I entered at 0845 and left at 16:45 , the only problem is that they don't seem to have noticed I left at about 09:35 and came back into the park at 16:30 , luckily I have a parking reciept for a car park 30 miles away issued at 10:55 Had the same thing with local Motorway service area a few months back .

Perhaps but it seems a lot of detective work unless they want you for something else. I mean I've not been on a single toll road or campsite , I may have passed the odd cctv or anpr camera here and there but not many as I tend to be on all the minor roads , of course I've bought petrol and shopping etc so my credit card would show my locations
But not sure they would go to all that hassle with every UK van 're entering UK.
They might but seems unlikely

 

[Northernraider]

And who's fault was that??

Its not that simple. Many weren't allowed to for various reasons. I've a graph somewhere I could upload . But we aren't allowed to discuss it

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[Just smiffy]

I wonder if Benidorm will see a massive decline and become a quaint little seaside village....

I might visit it then....?

 

[Brakers]

Its not that simple

Perhaps not but load of people didn't bother to vote.

 

[Northernraider]

Perhaps not but load of people didn't bother to vote.

Yes 20% apparently, usually means they are happy with the status quo.

 

[Brakers]

Yes 20% apparently, usually means they are happy with the status quo.

That might be a bit naive and you don’t know that for sure.

 

[Northernraider]

That might be a bit naive and you don’t know that for sure.

Nobody does but that's how it's usually viewed , if you don't care enough to vote you don't want things to change.

Anyway like I said we ain't allowed to discuss it.

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[Brakers]

if you don't care enough to vote you don't want things to change.

That's not strictly true, but your right we are not allowed to discuss that topic.

 

[Northernraider]

I wonder if Benidorm will see a massive decline and become a quaint little seaside village....

I might visit it then....?

Will still get the pissheads stag parties hen parties etc ....

 

[MisterB]

There are no phases. It’s a 180 day rolling assessment period. Taking a small trip early doors will, in fact, be to your detriment.

The only uncertainty in my mind is whether or not on Brexit Day they apply the rule to the letter and count back 180 days which will determines whether or not you could travel to the Schengen zone on Brexit Day +1 OR whether they give us a concession and allow the assessment period to begin on Brexit Day.

Ian

but the 180 day rolling assessment must start somewhere and i dont agree that date will be applied to everyone - i believe it will be a start date - ie from 1 nov or whatever date if it ever happens then the rules will apply. however as an individual who then travels on the 5th of november, then has 180 days from there in which they can stay for 90 of those days. an individual who travels on the 5 december has 90 days from that point within the next 180 days

so if you get the clock rolling early, ie january then you can do 90 days within the following 180 days, return to the uk for a short period then AFTER the 180 days have expired, you can then travel again for 90 days within the next 180 days. so effectively if you do travel for a short one day trip in february you could have May, june and most of july - return home for a short period, then re-enter the zone after the 180 days and enjoy august and september into early october - all depending of course on what date you travel. you would of course have to return to the uk within the second lot 180 days (august - december) before starting the whole process again.

if you travel for the first time in june, then you only get june, july and august, then have to return home - or out of the zone - until 180 days have expired from your first date of travel.


of course i might be wrong, but it seems logical to me

Jan 10th - 1 day trip leaves 179 days to use up 89 days - then you must leave the zone even if only for one day

181 days AFTER Jan 10th you can then return into the zone for another 90 day period but again must leave before day 180 !!!

does anyone know if the UK has a similar 90 day within 180 day period for visitors to the UK?

 

[bigtwin]

but the 180 day rolling assessment must start somewhere

No, it’s a ROLLING 180 days. What you have done in the past affects the future. Each day that passes knocks one day off of the previous 180 days record - the assessment period starts anew every day. They are not discrete phases.

ian

 

[Glas Robin]

I think many are getting confused.

There is no "starting" of the clock. It is a rolling 180 day period that looks *retrospectively* at where you have been.

What matters on any particular day when you are in the Schengen zone is what you have done in the previous 180 days. If in the previous 180 days you have spent fewer than 90 days in Schengen you are fine. If it is 90 days then you need to leave that day. If it is more than 90 days you have overstayed. The online calculator makes this very simple.

Although it is not clear, I would imagine if we leave on October 31st, then any time spent in Schengen before this date won't count. This means that for any calculations you do upto 28th April 2020 you can ignore any days you spent in Schengen prior to October 31st.

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[Glas Robin]

No, it’s a ROLLING 180 days. What you have done in the past affects the future. Each day that passes knocks one day off of the previous 180 days record - the assessment period starts anew every day. They are not discrete phases.

ian

Yeah - what Ian said, but more simply than I did!

 

[Glas Robin]

It's possible their system will be the same as some of the parking company cctv ! I am in middle of second PCN for staying too long in car park , they said I entered at 0845 and left at 16:45 , the only problem is that they don't seem to have noticed I left at about 09:35 and came back into the park at 16:30 , luckily I have a parking reciept for a car park 30 miles away issued at 10:55 Had the same thing with local Motorway service area a few months back .

I doubt it. CCTV and number plates won't really come into it.

The Schengen zone has secure borders (mostly!). When you enter and leave it your passport is always scanned into the shared database. They will know how long you have been in the zone. This is how they will enforce the visa restrictions - in exactly the same way as they currently do for non-EU nationals.

If they choose to enforce the rules, there will be no way around it - despite what some posters may like to believe.

Of course, if we get a deal the rules may not apply to UK nationals in the way we think they might.

 

[Hagstrom]

As I understand it, the new EU computer database logs entries into/out of the EU by logging passports at the EU border crossing points and, if a logical person had designed the application, it would automatically flag up any passports breaching the 90-day rule as they re-passed through passport control.

Wouldn't it be good if Andorra were sunnier, a little further south, nearer the sea and at a lower altitude as it isn't a member of the EU and isn't in the Schengen Area Agreement so all stays there would not count against the 90 days. I don't believe a defence that, if when challeneged about overstaying, you claimed you had been in Andorra for a couple of the overstaying months, would be accepted!

Its also a pity that Gibralter is too cramped to accommodate an Aire! Looks like Morocco is the only viable alternative if you're seeking to extend your winter stay beyond 90 days.

 

[bigtwin]

Jan 10th - 1 day trip leaves 179 days to use up 89 days - then you must leave the zone even if only for one day

You only have 89 days available if you did not visit the Schengen zone in the previous 90 days. You cannot ignore the past.

Jan 10th - 1 day trip leaves 179 days to use up 89 days - then you must leave the zone even if only for one day

If you leave the zone for only one day, that will only drop one day off from 180 days ago so will only allow you to revisit the zone for a single day. Looking back over the past 180 days will reveal that you had stayed 89 days so would only have a single day available to you.

181 days AFTER Jan 10th you can then return into the zone for another 90 day period but again must leave before day 180 !!!

Not if you had taken your 89 available days to finish in late June.

This is where you are going wrong. There is no hard assessment date. It is a ROLLING 180 day assessment period.

ian

 

[Potty]

As I understand it, the new EU computer database logs entries into/out of the EU by logging passports at the EU border crossing points and, if a logical person had designed the application, it would automatically flag up any passports breaching the 90-day rule as they re-passed through passport control.

Wouldn't it be good if Andorra were sunnier, a little further south, nearer the sea and at a lower altitude as it isn't in a member of the EU and isn't in the Schengen Area Agreement so all stays there would not count against the 90 days. I don't believe a defence that if, when challeneged about overstaying, you claimed you had been in Andorra for a couple of the overstaying months, would be accepted!

Its also a pity that Gibralter is too cramped to accommodate an Aire! Looks like Morocco is the only viable alternative if you're seeking to extend your winter stay beyond 90 days.

Croatia isn’t in the Schengen area, further South than Andorra and lower altitude.

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[vwalan]

As I understand it, the new EU computer database logs entries into/out of the EU by logging passports at the EU border crossing points and, if a logical person had designed the application, it would automatically flag up any passports breaching the 90-day rule as they re-passed through passport control.

Wouldn't it be good if Andorra were sunnier, a little further south, nearer the sea and at a lower altitude as it isn't a member of the EU and isn't in the Schengen Area Agreement so all stays there would not count against the 90 days. I don't believe a defence that, if when challeneged about overstaying, you claimed you had been in Andorra for a couple of the overstaying months, would be accepted!

Its also a pity that Gibralter is too cramped to accommodate an Aire! Looks like Morocco is the only viable alternative if you're seeking to extend your winter stay beyond 90 days.

its not just about scengen though its about eu countries .
mind just about every country in the world as time limits .

 

[Northernraider]

You only have 89 days available if you did not visit the Schengen zone in the previous 90 days. You cannot ignore the past.



If you leave the zone for only one day, that will only drop one day off from 180 days ago so will only allow you to revisit the zone for a single day. Looking back over the past 180 days will reveal that you had stayed 89 days so would only have a single day available to you.



Not if you had taken your 89 available days to finish in late June.

This is where you are going wrong. There is no hard assessment date. It is a ROLLING 180 day assessment period.

ian

i think what he's saying is like Glas Robin that if we leave on 31st October what's happened in the past won't count but will start from 1st November

I'm inclined to think that too as it's an awful lot of work and investigation to check how much time you've spent in Shengen prior to that.
Like with many of the other changes that will happen after our exit MOST will start from the day after.

 

[Glas Robin]

its not just about scengen though its about eu countries .
mind just about every country in the world as time limits .

I don't think that is correct. The 90/180 visa rule applies to the Schengen Zone. EU countries not in Schengen will have their own visa rules - but stays in these countries will not count towards the Schengen 90/180.

 

[gus-lopez]

It HAS to be of satisfactory quality and last a period of time expected of that type of part.

Life is going to be just like this thread 24/7 for the next quarter-century. It is an awful prospect. Truly miserable.

We can not be reconciled. A win for one side or the other will not bring us together as a nation - but equally there is no middle-ground compromise that will unite us all.

Treue

We've opened Pandora's box on a massively complex constitutional issue and turned it into a bitter binary one.

No the half -wit Cameron did without knowing 100% that he was guaranteed what the result was. You never do that, especially a politician.

Personally I'm of the believe that if you've paid in to a pension it isn't a benefit

Unfortunately the MIG part isn't anything you paid in for.

The government have a " minimum income guarantee" which is the amount that they believe that you need to live on. This is around £284/week , which is far in excess of the basic state pension. If you only have that you used to be able to apply under the "pension guarantee" which they have now stopped as from May 6th & you have to apply under the "universal credir" rules which are far more onerous.

And who's fault was that??

David Camerons

does anyone know if the UK has a similar 90 day within 180 day period for visitors to the UK?

The Uk always stuck with 6 months.
That even applies to me as a British citizen in that I have to leave for 1 day & return to restart the clock. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to my vehicle, which has to leave & cannot return for 183 days , although a different one can.
This though is all over ridden if the reason is an " unexpected or unforeseen" calamity. i.e you unexpectedly fall ill & overstay.

To actually expect most of the people doing the job to understand what the rules were/are/will be is bordering on the miraculous as the vast majority have no clue what they are at the moment.

 

[Deneb]

i think what he's saying is like Glas Robin that if we leave on 31st October what's happened in the past won't count but will start from 1st November

I'm inclined to think that too as it's an awful lot of work and investigation to check how much time you've spent in Shengen prior to that.
Like with many of the other changes that will happen after our exit MOST will start from the day after.

I suspect the same, since we will have had free movement up to the date we leave, it would be perverse to include that period in the calculation.

So, say we leave on 31st October, any future calculation should only roll back to that date, until 180 days have passed.

But like everyone else, in reality I know nothing and it will all depend on how the authorities decide to implement it.

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[bigtwin]

Although it is not clear, I would imagine if we leave on October 31st, then any time spent in Schengen before this date won't count. This means that for any calculations you do upto 28th April 2020 you can ignore any days you spent in Schengen prior to October 31st.

i think what he's saying is like Glas Robin that if we leave on 31st October what's happened in the past won't count but will start from 1st November

Agreed, as I indicated previously:

The only uncertainty in my mind is whether or not on Brexit Day they apply the rule to the letter and count back 180 days which will determines whether or not you could travel to the Schengen zone on Brexit Day +1 OR whether they give us a concession and allow the assessment period to begin on Brexit Day.

Surely nothing changes until after we leave the eu

That would be rather nice but, unless the leaving date is specified as a universal start date, I think it can only be as I’ve described.

Ian

 

[Malcolm Bolt]

There are no phases. It’s a 180 day rolling assessment period. Taking a small trip early doors will, in fact, be to your detriment.

The only uncertainty in my mind is whether or not on Brexit Day they apply the rule to the letter and count back 180 days which will determines whether or not you could travel to the Schengen zone on Brexit Day +1 OR whether they give us a concession and allow the assessment period to begin on Brexit Day.

Ian

I hope so. Otherwise I will be stuffed big time.

 

[tacr2man]

I don't see how it can start from other than 1 nov or first date you enter schengen after that date , if it was a count-back at date of implementation technically if you had been in zone for 91 days prior to Nov 1 you would be in breach of the law , even if you left immediately !
When you enter after nov 1 then the count starts , if you then leave after 10 days and re-enter say 60 days later that time spent first visit (10 days) will be "activ" untill 180 days after that first entry . So at any point of entry all you do is look how much time you have been in the zone in the previous 180 days and that will tell you how long you can remain upto the total of 90 .

 

[bigtwin]

When you enter after nov 1 then the count starts , if you then leave after 10 days and re-enter say 60 days later that time spent first visit (10 days) will be "activ" untill 180 days after that first entry . So at any point of entry all you do is look how much time you have been in the zone in the previous 180 days and that will tell you how long you can remain upto the total of 90 .

In one!

Ian

 

[Brakers]

its not just about scengen though its about eu countries

Hi There I think vwalan's post is correct look at this site it might help some understand it.

Visa Requirements for Croatia

Info on visa requirements for Croatia, visiting Croatia using a Schengen visa/residence permit and other details on entering the country

www.visit-croatia.co.uk

Best Wishes Tony

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