4250kg imminent?

[Jofang]

I picked up the text below today from www.camping-car.org, which is dated 21st December 2024. The original text is in French.

The format of the three-part pink driving license was inconvenient and specific to France and some European countries. The new format called credit card is therefore closer to the format of the national identity card and other useful cards (health card, blue card, etc.). The new format is supplemented with various security features including watermark photography and page background. Its falsification therefore becomes much more difficult.

The new credit card format is also much less sensitive to handling accidents: rain, tearing, creasing, etc.

Finally, this format and its content are now officially recognized in all countries of the European Union and many EU partner countries (Norway for example).

But it is above all the fact of finally being able to officially drive vehicles with a GVW of 4250 kg with a B license that interests motorhome drivers. We are still far from the 7 to 8 tons authorized in most states in the United States and Canada. But it is a significant step towards the generalization of new vehicles with greater usability.

 

[Oldrat]

Rather than opinion, here are some facts

LINK


Single and dual carriageway speeds shown here.
A dual carriageway is a road where each direction has a physical separation such as a kerb, a painted line is insufficient.

 

[Guigsy]

Why try to make that point when quoting my post where I said there would be no change in the vehicle.

You looking for an argument?

You said that upping the limit wouldn't make vehicles larger. You might not want a bigger vehicle, but many will. The average motorhome would get bigger.

 

[DDJC]

You said that upping the limit wouldn't make vehicles larger. You might not want a bigger vehicle, but many will. The average motorhome would get bigger.

What's the problem with that?

 

[jongood]

Higher limits will mean bigger vehicles. Heavier vehicles are worse in accidents. They are worse on fuel. They do more damage to the road surface (roughly twice as much per axle as it's a 4th power). There are plenty of reasons to not up the limits.

This reasoning could be a problem for the BEV transition.

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[DDJC]

This reasoning could be a problem for the BEV transition.

You mean aside from needing to stop every couple of hours and queue for a charge point for another hour?

 

[swemmy666]

You said that upping the limit wouldn't make vehicles larger. You might not want a bigger vehicle, but many will. The average motorhome would get bigger.

I'm not sure how you can know that, passing opinion off as fact. It would be equally valid to assert that many would like a smaller vehicle that is allowed to carry more weight, given the flexibility of access, parking, drivability, and storage a smaller vehicle provides.

 

[jongood]

Opinion.
I think its likely that after a period to clear the existing stock the Mh manufacturers would predominantly use the extra weight allowance to make things that appear to add value and we will end up with a load of bigger Motorhomes that are plated at but still don't really work at 4250kgs.

Fact ( for the benefit of swemmy666 )
There are motorhome designs out there that are struggling at 7500kgs as well.

 

[Guigsy]

I'm not sure how you can know that, passing opinion off as fact. It would be equally valid to assert that many would like a smaller vehicle that is allowed to carry more weight, given the flexibility of access, parking, drivability, and storage a smaller vehicle provides.

My opinion is logical. And I have evidence based on the number of threads about large vans with no payload. People and manufacturers will be able to get more with a 4.25t limit. They are pretty much guaranteed to take it.

 

[DDJC]

My opinion is logical. And I have evidence based on the number of threads about large vans with no payload. People and manufacturers will be able to get more with a 4.25t limit. They are pretty much guaranteed to take it.

Guaranteed? How do you work that out?

I would only be guaranteed to take it if I had the money to buy a new van. I haven't, so I am going to upplate mine from 3500 to 3850 when the law changes

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[jerryz]

Has anyone seen a EV Charging bay anywhere that a MH could fit in ???????? I doubt it so factor in the £100 fine for not being in a bay ...

 

[Lynne Roy]

So could anyone clarify if a French resident whose grandfathers rights would not transfer over, would be allowed to drive 4250 on a b license in 2025 I am struggling to find a definitive answer. Connexion newspaper states it includes ambulances and motorhomes x

 

[PaulW2]

So could anyone clarify if a French resident whose grandfathers rights would not transfer over, would be allowed to drive 4250 on a b license in 2025 I am struggling to find a definitive answer. Connexion newspaper states it includes ambulances and motorhomes x

As soon as the regulation is passed in France. As I understood it this could take some time, so I don't think 2025 is guaranteed.

The same applies to other EU countries I think - they will each individually need to codify it in their own regulations.

 

[The Artilleryman]

So could anyone clarify if a French resident whose grandfathers rights would not transfer over, would be allowed to drive 4250 on a b license in 2025 I am struggling to find a definitive answer. Connexion newspaper states it includes ambulances and motorhomes x

The UK is the only country to have grandfather rights in respect of "over 3500kg to 7500kg" every other country you will need to take a C1 driving test.

 

[cyberyacht]

Even if it increased to 4250Kg, the number of motorhomes that will be able to utilise the full capacity will be limited by the standard rating of the chassis, normally 3850Kg. A further increase above that may require uprated suspension, wheels etc. Silver bullets remain the province of the Lone Ranger.

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[Guigsy]

Even if it increased to 4250Kg, the number of motorhomes that will be able to utilise the full capacity will be limited by the standard rating of the chassis, normally 3850Kg. A further increase above that may require uprated suspension, wheels etc. Silver bullets remain the province of the Lone Ranger.

The electric Ducato is rated to 4250kg. I wonder if that will also become the new default Maxi/Heavy chassis for diesels too?

 

[nicholsong]

The UK is the only country to have grandfather rights in respect of "over 3500kg to 7500kg" every other country you will need to take a C1 driving test.

But some countries will accept grandfather rights is swapping a UK licence to a local on, others will not. ||Polish licensing authorities told me I would get all categories on my uk licence which I did, including C1.

It would be interesting to know whether if I then went to France whether they would honour the rule that between EU countries one should get all categories on any other EU licence.

 

[Lynne Roy]

As soon as the regulation is passed in France. As I understood it this could take some time, so I don't think 2025 is guaranteed.

The same applies to other EU countries I think - they will each individually need to codify it in their own regulations.

Thank you

 

[Barriesimpson]

Even if it increased to 4250Kg, the number of motorhomes that will be able to utilise the full capacity will be limited by the standard rating of the chassis, normally 3850Kg. A further increase above that may require uprated suspension, wheels etc. Silver bullets remain the province of the Lone Ranger.

Yes, exactly, but that extra 350kg is just what I need. I don't ask for more.

 

[Widge]

But some countries will accept grandfather rights is swapping a UK licence to a local on, others will not. ||Polish licensing authorities told me I would get all categories on my uk licence which I did, including C1.

It would be interesting to know whether if I then went to France whether they would honour the rule that between EU countries one should get all categories on any other EU licence.

When I swapped my license in france (years before BREXIT) I got a full C1, although I understand that it was a bit random as some departments didn't always honour it, Now i understand that a C1 will only be issued on receipt of a certificate showing that you have earned the category by fulfilling the requirements for the C1, whether this is the same between EU countries I don't know, but remember an exchanged uk to polish licence will still show that the original licence was issued in the UK.

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[jongood]

Even if it increased to 4250Kg, the number of motorhomes that will be able to utilise the full capacity will be limited by the standard rating of the chassis, normally 3850Kg. A further increase above that may require uprated suspension, wheels etc. Silver bullets remain the province of the Lone Ranger.

At different stages there have been many different design weights around these numbers. I can see a lot of the 4500kgs ones getting downplated. The end result for those between 3500 and 4000 could be to make them slightly less attractive than one at 4250kgs.

 

[DDJC]

Yes, exactly, but that extra 350kg is just what I need. I don't ask for more.

Yep, same here. An extra 350 kg is ideal. Having not won the lottery recently, I don't want to swap my motorhome, as I have it exactly the way I want it. That extra weight means not having to worry about being a tad over (which coming back from the Carrefour wine aisles in France, I suspect I am)

Following advice from SV Tech a couple of years ago, I have already added VB semi air and gone up to 225 & LR 112 tyres. I also put on better shocks & better brake discs. I could up-plate tomorrow, as I have C1E. However Mrs DDJC only has BE. Yet she drives our bus safely, competently and economically. And sometimes we have a 5m trailer attached. Can't see the point in spending a grand on a course when it seems that the B Cat weight limit is going to be raised to 4250.

What I do feel is that I am now completely content that my bus is safe to be heavier than 3500, even if legally it shouldn't be yet.

I am unconcerned about any changes to VED, whether in my favour or against. Similarly, I don't care about reducing my cruising speed down to 90 kmh. I tow a trailer with a little car on it anyway. I'd rather not attache the fugly 'dead cyclists' stickers, but it is a small price to pay. A piece of paper and a new sticker, and Mr Gendarme will send me on my way with a cheery wave.

This change of weight for B Cat can't come soon enough for us, and I fail to see why some people have such an opposition to it.

 

[mikash]

The UK is the only country to have grandfather rights in respect of "over 3500kg to 7500kg" every other country you will need to take a C1 driving test.

Swedish B-license allows up to 7.5t motorhomes if the license was granted before mid-90s or so. Applicability varies abroad but generally works in EU countries atleast ,you just need some official paper from swedish authorities to prove your B is actually C1 as far as motorhomes go. That's probably why Kabe didn't really have any < 3.5t models before they went international and are still kinda struggling to fit their kit to that limit.
I think that's a similar thing that you refer to as "grandfather rights" in UK?

 

[DDJC]

Swedish B-license allows up to 7.5t motorhomes if the license was granted before mid-90s or so. Applicability varies abroad but generally works in EU countries atleast ,you just need some official paper from swedish authorities to prove your B is actually C1 as far as motorhomes go. That's probably why Kabe didn't really have any < 3.5t models before they went international and are still kinda struggling to fit their kit to that limit.
I think that's a similar thing that you refer to as "grandfather rights" in UK?

Very similar.

For UK drivers who passed their test before 1997, they also got a C1 which gives a 7500kg weight limit.

In 1996, when the EU was formed, UK sought to harmonise our licence award system with the rest of the EU members. This means that for drivers who passed their B licence after 1997, the C1 was not awarded automatically.

An argument here is that now UK has exited the EU, we no longer need to harmonise with EU and can revert the change and give C1 to all B cat drivers. The EU couldn't do anything to object, because each member state, as well as any third nation has the absolute right to determine their own licence award system. If the UK decided to give C1 to any driver who passed their B cat, then that is it. It is awarded.

However, automatic C1 might be a step too far, but a change of B cat to 4250 seems eminently sensible and practical.

 

[nicholsong]

When I swapped my license in france (years before BREXIT) I got a full C1, although I understand that it was a bit random as some departments didn't always honour it, Now i understand that a C1 will only be issued on receipt of a certificate showing that you have earned the category by fulfilling the requirements for the C1, whether this is the same between EU countries I don't know, but remember an exchanged uk to polish licence will still show that the original licence was issued in the UK.

Widge

Thanks for pointing that out: it is in note 12. on the back of the licence which shows my old UK licence number. So the French could ask me for a C1 Pass Certificate.

Geoff

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[Widge]

Widge

Thanks for pointing that out: it is in note 12. on the back of the licence which shows my old UK licence number. So the French could ask me for a C1 Pass Certificate.

Geoff

To be honest I realy don't know, unfortunately it is probably only posible to find out by trying to exchange it.