2030 no new diesel vans. What's your plan?

[glenn2926]

I hope you have a workable tachograph for that journey
surprised the Navara hasn't snapped in two!

Not for hire or reward my truck my brewery for making my beer. Why would I need a tacho? You obvious don’t really know the Navara story do you? In fact looking again at your questions you don’t know the law either.

 

[chrisgreen]

I did it with this ICE car. Which EV could I have used?

tesla model x can tow 2 1/2 ton but is limited by its battery as battery technology moves on it will be no problem.

 

[duane0001]

Not for hire or reward my truck my brewery for making my beer. Why would I need a tacho? You obvious don’t really know the Navara story do you? In fact looking again at your questions you don’t know the law either.

I know the law and practice it! if it really is for you only and not a business then no, you do not need one,
Oh and the Navara,

22/09/2018 07:47

Fail

Mileage: 75,086 miles + 8,257 miles travelled since last MOT. Refusal Notices Offside rear vehicle structure corroded to the extent that the rigidity of the assembly is significantly reduced (6.1.1 (c) (i)) - Major

 

[duane0001]

I see PSA has just released details on the small EV van (Partner Berlingo)

New small electric vans from Citroen, Peugeot and Vauxhall

Electric versions of the Citroen Berlingo, Peugeot Partner and Vauxhall Combo are coming in 2021 – full details on Parkers Vans and Pickups

www.parkers.co.uk

50KW should be a bit more range than the 40kw Nissan ENV200

 

[duane0001]

I am all for changing our fleet over to electric but it will take time just to get the charging points for many vans to charge over night at one location, also the sheer cost of them at the moment does not make financial sense but the 90 mile range on the sprinter EV is good enough for what we need as driving is not the main part of the job we rarely leave the city

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[chrisgreen]

I know the law and practice it! if it really is for you only and not a business then no, you do not need one,
Oh and the Navara,

22/09/2018 07:47

Fail

Mileage: 75,086 miles + 8,257 miles travelled since last MOT. Refusal Notices Offside rear vehicle structure corroded to the extent that the rigidity of the assembly is significantly reduced (6.1.1 (c) (i)) - Major

BIL Navara failed on the same thing Nissan took it back and put it right and about a month later while in France the head gasket went and had to be recovered back to England got it repaired and six months later it went again so he gave up on it and scraped it. shit engines and rot boxes.

 

[chrisgreen]

I am all for changing our fleet over to electric but it will take time just to get the charging points for many vans to charge over night at one location, also the sheer cost of them at the moment does not make financial sense but the 90 mile range on the sprinter EV is good enough for what we need as driving is not the main part of the job we rarely leave the city

that's the thing my EV does not go outside of a 25-mile radius of my home so ideal for us with its 200-mile range. but i am planning a trip down to Weymouth in the summer 137 miles, charge it before we come home on one of the many rapid chargers in Weymouth, jobs a good un, cost, free to get there about £6 to get back.

 

[Gromett]

Which areas are EVs superior to ICE? I can’t think of one. Not range, not speed, not cost, certainly not aesthetically, looking at Tesla alone certainly not build quality.

Cheaper to run, less maintenance, start the day off with a full tank (for most people), no oil change, clutch, timing chain etc etc, quiet...

 

[Gromett]

@Gromett already said last week that in 2030 I think it was, his next motorhome will be an ICE one, as the electric one will be too expensive and not have the range he requires.

I could have swore blind that's what you said I was really shocked reading it.

No what I said was I buy 10 year old vans and run them for 8-10 years. I have just bought one so I don't anticipate being ready to buy again until 2030. In 2030 I will be looking at vans that are new today. New vans today don't have the range AND new ones will still be too expensive for me.
So my next one is most likely to another ICE.

By changing my explanation to too expensive and not have the range, misrepresents my explanation.

If you had said.

Gromett already said last week that in 2030 I think it was, his next van will be an ICE one, as a new electric one will be too expensive and old ones won't have the range he requires because he buys 10 year old second hand vans and run them for 8-10 years.

I buy van's and self convert.

 

[Gromett]

But unless you know who refused to answer 1 to 4 on the grounds they woul d never buy one you do not know if they were discounted or , as more than likely, added in to "not a the moment" No; 4

The question was specifically asking about changing in the next 10 years before the ban comes in. If you don't like the question tough. But you can't read anything into it that wasn't actually asked.

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[Gromett]

I will not say you are backtracking on where we will be in 10-15 years time, but you are starting to recognise that for MHomers at least there are still long-term alternatives to EV. After all there are stiil 30 year-old Hymers around still giving good service, so buying similar in 2029 could take one to 2060.

No backtracking at all. I have been consistent in saying I support the ban on new ICE vehicles from 2030. This will put a rocket up the arses of the manufacturers to start producing EV vehicles that people want and need. I have also been consistently saying this is not a ban on ICE vehicles completely and as the average age of scrappage in the UK is 14 that means we have 24 years minimum of ICE vehicles left. So for those old farts who don't want to change or can't for practical reasons then there is nothing to panic about.

I would also add. That battery density and cost appears to double and half on a 7 year cycle so far. So in 24 years batteries will be 4 times the energy density and a quarter of the price. EV's at that point will be cheaper to buy than ICE. I also suspect in 15-20 years the filling stations will start closing down in rural areas due to not enough demand to be profitable. Diesel taxes will start to rise to put further pressure on people. All this will make EV's a lot more attractive.

So basically don't panic now it is 24 year away until you are likely to HAVE to make a decision. But do know that it is likely to cost you more in the pocket from 15 years on.

 

[Gromett]

I see PSA has just released details on the small EV van (Partner Berlingo)

New small electric vans from Citroen, Peugeot and Vauxhall

Electric versions of the Citroen Berlingo, Peugeot Partner and Vauxhall Combo are coming in 2021 – full details on Parkers Vans and Pickups

www.parkers.co.uk

50KW should be a bit more range than the 40kw Nissan ENV200

They have done it again. Why all the greebling and the big flat front end. They need to be looking at new designs to increase aerodynamic efficiency to increase battery range. Grrr.
They basically look like a traditional van construction slightly modified for EV. Rather than a ground up EV design

I have a feeling the new companies will come along and eat their lunch if they don't get this sorted.

 

[Gromett]

I know the law and practice it! if it really is for you only and not a business then no, you do not need one,
Oh and the Navara,

22/09/2018 07:47

Fail

Mileage: 75,086 miles + 8,257 miles travelled since last MOT. Refusal Notices Offside rear vehicle structure corroded to the extent that the rigidity of the assembly is significantly reduced (6.1.1 (c) (i)) - Major

Is that the Navaro that did the long distance trip with the trailer? Doesn't seem like it does high mileage. 2018 - 1007 = 11 years old at that point. 75,000 / 11 = 6800 miles per year on average.
In the future avoiding EV's because of a single special trip where there is an alternative seems to a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I am all for changing our fleet over to electric but it will take time just to get the charging points for many vans to charge over night at one location, also the sheer cost of them at the moment does not make financial sense but the 90 mile range on the sprinter EV is good enough for what we need as driving is not the main part of the job we rarely leave the city

Happy to share successes and failures in regard to the charging-point installations that I have overseen over the last 12 months.
There are grants available to businesses
Biggest challenge we faced was the existing wiring we had at some locations.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

They have done it again. Why all the greebling and the big flat front end. They need to be looking at new designs to increase aerodynamic efficiency to increase battery range. Grrr.
They basically look like a traditional van construction slightly modified for EV. Rather than a ground up EV design

I have a feeling the new companies will come along and eat their lunch if they don't get this sorted.

I agree, your absolutely correct
But a reason ( not an excuse) may be that a “radical look“ seems to fare worse in UK buyer acceptance than “radical technology”
Just been through it with a fleet change at work where drivers embrace the EV tech , but radical looking cars ( Hyundai Ioniq springs to mind) get ZERO acceptance even though its a good car under its skin

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[CazPaul]

No what I said was I buy 10 year old vans and run them for 8-10 years. I have just bought one so I don't anticipate being ready to buy again until 2030. In 2030 I will be looking at vans that are new today. New vans today don't have the range AND new ones will still be too expensive for me.
So my next one is most likely to another ICE.

By changing my explanation to too expensive and not have the range, misrepresents my explanation.

If you had said.

Gromett already said last week that in 2030 I think it was, his next van will be an ICE one, as a new electric one will be too expensive and old ones won't have the range he requires because he buys 10 year old second hand vans and run them for 8-10 years.

I buy van's and self convert.

You are splitting hairs here, in 2030, 10 years time, you will be buying an ICE van it looks like because they will be cheaper.

i dont blame you by the way, I run a dirt cheap £1000 petrol car and when EVs come into this price range will buy one if the range is adequate for my work travel.

 

[gus-lopez]

what towing a loaded 3 axle trailer?

That wasn't actually mentioned.

we do about 600 miles a month in our EV costs us nothing can you do that in a diesel.
and since having our diesel car mot in September its done 63 miles cost about £7 and only drive it to give it a runout.

Anyone using any type of vehicle travelling under 10 miles per journey should npt be using the roads.

Hi Gus
Dont get the quiet as a mouse response, explain?

. I have multiple threads & forums I'm on & don't just dedicate myself to educating on one. Even with the trailer I doubut whether there is 1400 kgs all up so plenty can /could tow it.

Not for hire or reward my truck my brewery for making my beer. Why would I need a tacho? You obvious don’t really know the Navara story do you? In fact looking again at your questions you don’t know the law either.

I have to agree here. You'd be on dodgy ground. Doesn't matter if not for hire & reward if the vehicle is registered /used through any type of business. In France even a commercial van, travelling through for hire & reward , with a tow bar attached but unused, is required to have one.
The only get out would be if the beer is never sold.But you are hardly likely to explain that on the side of a French road. I know plenty who ran without tacho's till they got pulled in France.

The question was specifically asking about changing in the next 10 years before the ban comes in. If you don't like the question tough. But you can't read anything into it that wasn't actually asked.

It isn't a question of liking the question, but about whether it can be interpreted or manipulated to suit those asking ?It can ,it therefore leaves a great big hole as soon as you read it showing that it is , or could be, slanted towards the view they wish to make.

 

[Coolcats]

we do about 600 miles a month in our EV costs us nothin

is this True? There is the cost of the vehicle in the first instance plus depreciation plus the cost of electric. Many of the population cannot afford an EV at their current prices

 

[Gromett]

I agree, your absolutely correct
But a reason ( not an excuse) may be that a “radical look“ seems to fare worse in UK buyer acceptance than “radical technology”
Just been through it with a fleet change at work where drivers embrace the EV tech , but radical looking cars ( Hyundai Ioniq springs to mind) get ZERO acceptance even though its a good car under its skin

I am not suggesting a radical look. Just remove the greebling and make the the front not so slab fronted. That would be a good start. I would also like to see them using composites for the bonnet and front wings (bolted on still) to reduce weight. I understand the need to stay with steel for the body and chassis and have no problems with that. But for parts of the body that are not structural and can be bolted on then light weight alternatives all help the range.

 

[Gromett]

Anyone using any type of vehicle travelling under 10 miles per journey should npt be using the roads.

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[Gromett]

is this True? There is the cost of the vehicle in the first instance plus depreciation plus the cost of electric. Many of the population cannot afford an EV at their current prices

You know what he meant.

When people resort to sophistry to try to win an argument it undermines their own position.

 

[Gromett]

I agree, your absolutely correct
But a reason ( not an excuse) may be that a “radical look“ seems to fare worse in UK buyer acceptance than “radical technology”
Just been through it with a fleet change at work where drivers embrace the EV tech , but radical looking cars ( Hyundai Ioniq springs to mind) get ZERO acceptance even though its a good car under its skin

Here is an example of what I mean.

This is the new van vs a very successful 2010 van. The vivaro/trafic has a fairly good aerodynamic profile. It does have grills and vents which are needed in an ICE van. But a lot of the "features" and greebling could be removed and replaced with visual queues instead.
I hope you understand what I mean?

Look at the new van on the left, massive flat front that can't aid aerodynamics at all

 

[Gromett]

This is the one I am waiting for on the 2nd hand market.

 

[chrisgreen]

is this True? There is the cost of the vehicle in the first instance plus depreciation plus the cost of electric. Many of the population cannot afford an EV at their current prices

When I say free I mean we don't pay for the electricity to recharge it, as for depreciation, the pleasure of owning a brand new EV far outways the depreciation, and you can buy a new MG EV for around 20 k built in china and people who have them seem to love them I did look at them after I got the one i have and thought what a nice looking car it is.

 

[Gromett]

When I say free I mean we don't pay for the electricity to recharge it, as for depreciation, the pleasure of owning a brand new EV far outways the depreciation, and you can buy a new MG EV for around 20 k built in china and people who have them seem to love them I did look at them after I got the one i have and thought what a nice looking car it is.
View attachment 447310

Depreciation is not guaranteed to be higher in an EV. Tesla for instance has the lowest depreciation in the industry bar none.

Tesla Model 3 Bucks Trend of Electric Vehicles Depreciating Rapidly

The average vehicle coming off a three-year lease has lost 52 percent of its value, but a Model 3 only loses about 10 percent, one study finds.

www.caranddriver.com

I suspect once car manufacturers start producing decent EV's the depreciation will fall.

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[CazPaul]

When I say free I mean we don't pay for the electricity to recharge it, as for depreciation, the pleasure of owning a brand new EV far outways the depreciation, and you can buy a new MG EV for around 20 k built in china and people who have them seem to love them I did look at them after I got the one i have and thought what a nice looking car it is.
View attachment 447310

Looks nice, was it very expensive?

 

[Gromett]

Looks nice, was it very expensive?

You made me look.

MG ZS EV | Electric SUV

MG ZS EV has been renewed with a modern design, increased range, and even more technology. Find out more about this electric SUV here.

mg.co.uk

£25K. Not too bad. The average price of a new car in the UK is £33K. So within the ballpark.

Average new car price has risen 38 per cent in past decade, says Cap HPI – Car Dealer Magazine

THE AVERAGE price of a new car has increased by 38 per cent over the course of the past decade, according to Cap HPI. Analysis conducted by the automotive

cardealermagazine.co.uk

 

[glenn2926]

Is that the Navaro that did the long distance trip with the trailer? Doesn't seem like it does high mileage. 2018 - 1007 = 11 years old at that point. 75,000 / 11 = 6800 miles per year on average.
In the future avoiding EV's because of a single special trip where there is an alternative seems to a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It is, it’s mine. It had very low mileage when I bought it. Which is why I bought it. l don’t do high mileage per annum but I do tow trailers regularly. There isn’t an EV that can do what I need a vehicle to do. On the odd occasion that I need to go a long way I need to do it without mucking around. I need to get in drive all day just stopping for fuel (diesel & coffee) and get going again usually about five to ten minutes. Again there isn’t an EV that can do this.
They’re ok for city types but when your vehicle isn’t just a car but a working tool EVs are not up to the job.

 

[glenn2926]

When I say free I mean we don't pay for the electricity to recharge it, as for depreciation, the pleasure of owning a brand new EV far outways the depreciation, and you can buy a new MG EV for around 20 k built in china and people who have them seem to love them I did look at them after I got the one i have and thought what a nice looking car it is.
View attachment 447310

I don’t like the looks but that’s true of all Chelsea tractor type vehicles.

 

[CazPaul]

You made me look.

MG ZS EV | Electric SUV

MG ZS EV has been renewed with a modern design, increased range, and even more technology. Find out more about this electric SUV here.

mg.co.uk

£25K. Not too bad. The average price of a new car in the UK is £33K. So within the ballpark.

Average new car price has risen 38 per cent in past decade, says Cap HPI – Car Dealer Magazine

THE AVERAGE price of a new car has increased by 38 per cent over the course of the past decade, according to Cap HPI. Analysis conducted by the automotive

cardealermagazine.co.uk

Yes but I can't afford one neither can you, I have a £1000 car, people I work with run cars costing a few hundred quid.

If they come down to affordable levels second hand that's the only way myself and people I know will be able to have one.

Would love one though a bit the same as would have loved to have just bought a heat pump but £17000 so we just got another oil boiler

At the minute it's a case of save the planet" But only if your stinking rich"

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