2030 no new diesel vans. What's your plan?

[Gromett]

I have read a different Website than you then , one does wonder how you will charge/ or part a 900 Kg battery in a half an hour ,charging points in the States my next door to a power Station so there's no voltage drop !

I never said the battery was 900KG I said the weight penalty was 900KG. ie you lose 900KG of payload capacity. You said it was half.

Charging is done in special superchargers which will need to be installed. Most US and canadian companies buy these use them for point to point distribution between warehouses. Fixed routes so charging infrastructure will be set up.

This is the orders for it so far that are known about.

 

[Bluethunder]

It looks like the nearer we get to 2030 we have decisions to make. Would you be mad to buy a new diesel van after say 2025? or do you think the prices of diesel will hold up in the move to electric, drop like a stone or maybe even go up?

I know that many of us will be able to hide our own easter eggs by 2030, but younger Funsters who expect to be motorhoming long into the 30's whats your plan? keep your van, buy newish now and keep it, wait and see, keep calm and carry on.

 

[Bluethunder]

I don't honestly think that by 2030 we are going to be in a position to go all electric.
It seems to me it,s all pie in the sky as far as the government is concerned,apart from the financial cost of a electric vehicle there simply won't be the infrastructure for charging.
The government has stated it will happen in 2030 it's absolute poppycock .

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I don't honestly think that by 2030 we are going to be in a position to go all electric.
It seems to me it,s all pie in the sky as far as the government is concerned,apart from the financial cost of a electric vehicle there simply won't be the infrastructure for charging.
The government has stated it will happen in 2030 it's absolute poppycock .

We are not going all electric in 2030, !!

 

[Gromett]

I don't honestly think that by 2030 we are going to be in a position to go all electric.
It seems to me it,s all pie in the sky as far as the government is concerned,apart from the financial cost of a electric vehicle there simply won't be the infrastructure for charging.
The government has stated it will happen in 2030 it's absolute poppycock .

But the plan is not to go ALL electric. Just new vehicles will be electric. Existing ICE cars already on the road will be able to continue. With the average age in the UK of a car being scrapped being 14 years it will be at LEAST 24 years from now before we start seeing most ICE cars coming off the road UNLESS customers find EV's compelling.

If you don't want to go EV you don't have to for at least a quarter of a century. Don't panic

The government hasn't stated it will all happen in 2030. They have stated you won't be able to buy new ICE in 2031 onwards.

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[Gromett]

This is an interesting survey in The Telegraph which is a conservative press and most commentators in articles relating to clean energy and transport are negative.

This points to me that the market share for EVs should hit 16%+ extremely quickly once manufacturers start making more cars. That 9% we saw last month is just a hint of what is to come.

The 7% figure is also interesting in that it means they are considering it. That means that around a quarter of Telegraph readers are going to or are considering an EV before being forced to if buying new before 2030... This is 10 years before it is going to actually happen and before there is a decent charging infrastructure.

I know there will be some on here who will want to point at the 73%. But note it says "For now". Not "Never". This is just about who will change before they actually have to.

 

[Herbyventures]

I think what they aren't saying about the eventual, total swap to electric/hydrogen vehicles is that the whole scenario only works if most people who live in towns don't own a vehicle of any kind, they just dial one up when needed and it arrives (probably driverless) and you pay for the time you use. As for what the next generation will do for their holibobs... I cannot begin to guess but maybe it will be a Star Trek holodeck type of thing... !

 

[Thedriver]

With 6 x 150w panels on the roof you could harvest 4.5kwh per week in the summer. How much would that extend the range? Might make it more practical.

Now that's something worth thinking about!!!????

 

[Tony50]

I never said the battery was 900KG I said the weight penalty was 900KG. ie you lose 900KG of payload capacity. You said it was half.

Charging is done in special superchargers which will need to be installed. Most US and canadian companies buy these use them for point to point distribution between warehouses. Fixed routes so charging infrastructure will be set up.

This is the orders for it so far that are known about.

View attachment 446870

God forbid what happens when these battery cells pack up , there be some serious pollution

 

[Sid52]

God forbid what happens when these battery cells pack up , there be some serious pollution

Recycling is already happening, and it will steadily become more efficient and cheaper. However, reusing and reconditioning for storage purposes will considerably extend their life.

Ion the prize: How to recycle lithium-ion batteries

Lithium battery use is on the rise, thanks to the ubiquity of mobile phones and laptops, but does the UK have the capacity to deal with these power sources once they reach end of life?

resource.co

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[Gromett]

God forbid what happens when these battery cells pack up , there be some serious pollution

They get repurposed then recycled. ZERO pollution.

They are mainly copper and aluminium. do you think they will just throw them away?

 

[Gromett]

I think what they aren't saying about the eventual, total swap to electric/hydrogen vehicles is that the whole scenario only works if most people who live in towns don't own a vehicle of any kind, they just dial one up when needed and it arrives (probably driverless) and you pay for the time you use. As for what the next generation will do for their holibobs... I cannot begin to guess but maybe it will be a Star Trek holodeck type of thing... !

The fall in youngsters getting their driving license is already happening. The sheer cost of getting a license and the cost of a car combined with the rising number of students going to university is pushing the figures down.
The rise of ride sharing services like Uber has removed the need for a lot of kids in built up areas to own a car.

Once autonomous vehicles become mainstream, expect to see the cost of ride sharing to fall rapidly and spread to less densely populated areas (although not all).
older people who no longer commute to work will find it cheaper to call an autonomous taxi to get their shopping, go to the docs etc. Rather than own a car.

I don't think the government is relying on this though it is just going to happen naturally. The number of cars will naturally decline due to this even in a rising population. The youngsters will lead the way on this. It won't happen overnight and not everyone in all areas. But there will be a decline in car ownership once cheap, on demand transport becomes widespread.

 

[68c]

I agree, my 20 year old son amd many of his mates have no interest in driving at the moment.

 

[Gromett]

I agree, my 20 year old son amd many of his mates have no interest in driving at the moment.

I am not quite 50. I was forced into taking my driving test at the age of 27. I never wanted to drive.

 

[SpeedyDux]

The fall in youngsters getting their driving license is already happening. The sheer cost of getting a license and the cost of a car combined with the rising number of students going to university is pushing the figures down.
The rise of ride sharing services like Uber has removed the need for a lot of kids in built up areas to own a car.

Once autonomous vehicles become mainstream, expect to see the cost of ride sharing to fall rapidly and spread to less densely populated areas (although not all).
older people who no longer commute to work will find it cheaper to call an autonomous taxi to get their shopping, go to the docs etc. Rather than own a car.

I don't think the government is relying on this though it is just going to happen naturally. The number of cars will naturally decline due to this even in a rising population. The youngsters will lead the way on this. It won't happen overnight and not everyone in all areas. But there will be a decline in car ownership once cheap, on demand transport becomes widespread.

Listen up, people. This ban on ICE sales from 2030 is the sort of anti-freedom compulsion we ought to oppose. Get your Gilet Jaune on and protest. If Gromett is right, normal market forces means EVs should replace ICE vehicles because one day in the not too distant future they will be cheaper and more reliable to own. And the necessary electricity infrastructure should be in place by then. Instead of which, I predict chaos and disruption, because as we see time and again the State is just too incompetent to be trusted especially when it forces the pace of such a radical change.

The legislation banning sales of ICE cars and vans from 2030 is part of The Great Reset. One step towards "You will own nothing and you will be happy" which is the official WEF slogan. They want us eventually to cease private ownership of cars, relying instead on your on-demand transport owned of course by the super-rich oligarchy who want everyone else to rent their homes and goods, even clothes. If you assume that you will be allowed to continue to full-time in your converted van indefinitely you are very mistaken. My crystal ball tells me one day you will be compelled to live in a rented bedsit in a tower block as part of the green [dystopia] [utopia] that is planned for you, on which you won't get a vote.

What else? Expect a future ban on sales of real meat to further reduce CO2 and methane emissions. Seriously. Burgers and fake steak will be made from insect protein or even algae. Be happy ....

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[Tony50]

When I was on the Parish Council where I lived in this little village 20 years ago, we were sent a letter from Suffolk County council about improvements to the provision of Public Transport , Letter said " You will now have One Public Bus Service per week instead of Two . Can't see people giving up cars in Rural places whatever the cost ,and why should they ?
In Cites and large towns where the pollution is more concentrated I can see why there can be easier ways of getting about , but not everybody wants to eat more pollution by living in large places , vehicles whatever they are powered by will become more healthy (hopefully .)
As for producing Electricity , we have 1 redundant (being dismantled) Nuclear Power Station at Sizewell just up the coast , now wanting to build another 1 and on the cards another 1 built beside that 1. You may or may not know ,but when they were trying to get public approval for Sizewell A (Now redundant, first one ) the Powers that be said "Electricity will be almost Free" !!! I think if Nuclear Power Stations are so safe they should build them near big Cities where they need the power and have water for cooling like in the middle of London beside the Thames, then Liverpool, Bristol and pipe the water to Manchester and Birmingham if they don't have enough cooling water , not put the Bl**dy things on our doorstep.

 

[Tony50]

Recycling is already happening, and it will steadily become more efficient and cheaper. However, reusing and reconditioning for storage purposes will considerably extend their life.

Ion the prize: How to recycle lithium-ion batteries

Lithium battery use is on the rise, thanks to the ubiquity of mobile phones and laptops, but does the UK have the capacity to deal with these power sources once they reach end of life?

resource.co

Thanks for your input just read about what they do to reprocess Lithium Batteries unfortunately knocks some peoples theory , about recycling , there is no such thing as Non- recycling with no pollution as the the website says , added to that the pollution caused like anything else by Mining , transporting , processing Lithium .

 

[tigerblue]

I'm more worried right now about the closure of LPG refill stations for my underslung tank.

 

[Coolcats]

Listen up, people. This ban on ICE sales from 2030 is the sort of anti-freedom compulsion we ought to oppose. Get your Gilet Jaune on and protest. If Gromett is right, normal market forces means EVs should replace ICE vehicles because one day in the not too distant future they will be cheaper and more reliable to own. And the necessary electricity infrastructure should be in place by then. Instead of which, I predict chaos and disruption, because as we see time and again the State is just too incompetent to be trusted especially when it forces the pace of such a radical change.

The legislation banning sales of ICE cars and vans from 2030 is part of The Great Reset. One step towards "You will own nothing and you will be happy" which is the official WEF slogan. They want us eventually to cease private ownership of cars, relying instead on your on-demand transport owned of course by the super-rich oligarchy who want everyone else to rent their homes and goods, even clothes. If you assume that you will be allowed to continue to full-time in your converted van indefinitely you are very mistaken. My crystal ball tells me one day you will be compelled to live in a rented bedsit in a tower block as part of the green [dystopia] [utopia] that is planned for you, on which you won't get a vote.

What else? Expect a future ban on sales of real meat to further reduce CO2 and methane emissions. Seriously. Burgers and fake steak will be made from insect protein or even algae. Be happy ....

Gromett is right as all the manufactures can be seen to be changing their vehicles from ICE to EV, this is not something that may happen it is something that is happening. Lithium batteries were 'invented' back in the 70's clearly on going development meant that by the time Tesla looked around for a power source Lithium Batteries were becoming an option

Tesla Purchased their batteries from panasonic, now when you consider most car plants make thier own engines its not a leap of imagination to think that Tesla and others will do the same, Tesla needed to secure a Lithium source, they also needed Battery manufacturing expertise so they acquired Ontario-based Hibar Systems, which specializes in battery manufacturing

Musk does not sit in a Bat Cave inventing stuff he is a business man, entrepreneur using emerging technology to start up new business's, he is skilled at buying in new and emerging technology to meet a commercial need. He has an advantage in that he has no ICE and transmission engineers garages the incumbents do and they have to migrate from one power system to another without breaking the bank, their business but it does affect those who work in those industries and a tradition is being made.

VW One-Ups Tesla With Revolutionary Battery Breakthrough: says the headline whether it does or not im not really interested change is the only thing certain in this world and for both companies they will be looking at the next technology to improve what they have done.

On the renting front, its an interesting conundrum, if your not buying new and keep a car for say 10 years it can work out quite cheap I brought a BMW for £4K kept it for 10 years even with MOT servicing tyres etc it probably did not cost me much more than £600 a year looking at leasing the costs are shocking and no assets when you hand it back, the same with buying a house at least you would get some cash back if you ended up selling it after 20 years

But renting is the modern way, in part with regards to goods a 'must have the latest' culture, we come in to this world with nothing and go out the same way but its nice to have a bit of security whilst here

This is a bit of a young in cheek article

​

 

[Gents]

Gromett is right as all the manufactures can be seen to be changing their vehicles from ICE to EV, this is not something that may happen it is something that is happening. Lithium batteries were 'invented' back in the 70's clearly on going development meant that by the time Tesla looked around for a power source Lithium Batteries were becoming an option

Tesla Purchased their batteries from panasonic, now when you consider most car plants make thier own engines its not a leap of imagination to think that Tesla and others will do the same, Tesla needed to secure a Lithium source, they also needed Battery manufacturing expertise so they acquired Ontario-based Hibar Systems, which specializes in battery manufacturing

Musk does not sit in a Bat Cave inventing stuff he is a business man, entrepreneur using emerging technology to start up new business's, he is skilled at buying in new and emerging technology to meet a commercial need. He has an advantage in that he has no ICE and transmission engineers garages the incumbents do and they have to migrate from one power system to another without breaking the bank, their business but it does affect those who work in those industries and a tradition is being made.

VW One-Ups Tesla With Revolutionary Battery Breakthrough: says the headline whether it does or not im not really interested change is the only thing certain in this world and for both companies they will be looking at the next technology to improve what they have done.

On the renting front, its an interesting conundrum, if your not buying new and keep a car for say 10 years it can work out quite cheap I brought a BMW for £4K kept it for 10 years even with MOT servicing tyres etc it probably did not cost me much more than £600 a year looking at leasing the costs are shocking and no assets when you hand it back, the same with buying a house at least you would get some cash back if you ended up selling it after 20 years

But renting is the modern way, in part with regards to goods a 'must have the latest' culture, we come in to this world with nothing and go out the same way but its nice to have a bit of security whilst here

This is a bit of a young in cheek article

​

There is no security in buying a brand new vehicle of any shape, unless it’s through your business. The newest , i ever bought was a 6 month old Audi 100LS from a motor dealer/ accountant we were doing business with. Second best car I ever owned! Paid 2k for it, kept it 9 years sold it for£900. Back in the day, a dealer freind would hold a party at the showroom, on the 31st July, people would buy there new car and drive it away at midnight, just to be the first on the road with their new car!
What a sad bunch !!!
I also new another Sad B, who lived with his family, in absolute squaller, and drove a Roller, it made him feel important whilst out and about. What a saddo.
I’ve had great second hand vehicles all my life, for personal use, and loved every one of them, cause I owned them! They didn’t own me! By bricks and mortar if you want security.

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[Gents]

There is no security in buying a brand new vehicle of any shape, unless it’s through your business. The newest , i ever bought was a 6 month old Audi 100LS from a motor dealer/ accountant we were doing business with. Second best car I ever owned! Paid 2k for it, kept it 9 years sold it for£900. Back in the day, a dealer freind would hold a party at the showroom, on the 31st July, people would buy there new car and drive it away at midnight, just to be the first on the road with their new car!
What a sad bunch !!!
I also new another Sad B, who lived with his family, in absolute squaller, and drove a Roller, it made him feel important whilst out and about. What a saddo.
I’ve had great second hand vehicles all my life, for personal use, and loved every one of them, cause I owned them! They didn’t own me! By bricks and mortar if you want security.

That wasn’t a dig at anyone , just my opinion. Gents

 

[Coolcats]

There is no security in buying a brand new vehicle of any shape, unless it’s through your business. The newest , i ever bought was a 6 month old Audi 100LS from a motor dealer/ accountant we were doing business with. Second best car I ever owned! Paid 2k for it, kept it 9 years sold it for£900. Back in the day, a dealer freind would hold a party at the showroom, on the 31st July, people would buy there new car and drive it away at midnight, just to be the first on the road with their new car!
What a sad bunch !!!
I also new another Sad B, who lived with his family, in absolute squaller, and drove a Roller, it made him feel important whilst out and about. What a saddo.
I’ve had great second hand vehicles all my life, for personal use, and loved every one of them, cause I owned them! They didn’t own me! By bricks and mortar if you want security.

Absolutely right about bricks and mortar, the last transporter I purchased had 10 miles on the clock was pre registered and 1/3 off the price as the T6.1’s had arrived that van will last me 10+ years

Renting a property gives no security whatsoever and when the young generation retire they will still be paying rent that will use up all their spare cash. I do feel sorry for them.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I am not quite 50. I was forced into taking my driving test at the age of 27. I never wanted to drive.

It's high time you got yourself an EV. Even if it is only a G-Wiz or a C5. Then you can start a thread about modding it to match Tesla. G'won, you know you want to.

 

[CazPaul]

It's high time you got yourself an EV. Even if it is only a G-Wiz or a C5. Then you can start a thread about modding it to match Tesla. G'won, you know you want to.

Gromett already said last week that in 2030 I think it was, his next motorhome will be an ICE one, as the electric one will be too expensive and not have the range he requires.

 

[SpeedyDux]

There is no security in buying a brand new vehicle of any shape, unless it’s through your business. The newest , i ever bought was a 6 month old Audi 100LS from a motor dealer/ accountant we were doing business with. Second best car I ever owned! Paid 2k for it, kept it 9 years sold it for£900. Back in the day, a dealer freind would hold a party at the showroom, on the 31st July, people would buy there new car and drive it away at midnight, just to be the first on the road with their new car!
What a sad bunch !!!
I also new another Sad B, who lived with his family, in absolute squaller, and drove a Roller, it made him feel important whilst out and about. What a saddo.
I’ve had great second hand vehicles all my life, for personal use, and loved every one of them, cause I owned them! They didn’t own me! By bricks and mortar if you want security.

I tend to agree. A bloke I knew to be broke drove a Bentley, his hoity-toity wife (who treated me like a servant) had a Range Rover, and they lived the life of the Lord and Lady of the Manor in a small stately home. He's bankrupt, officially, lost the lot.

I did break my golden rule about only buying used cars (including at car auctions). This time my intention is to keep our brand new hybrid for at least 10 years because it suits our needs so well. A plug-in EV wouldn't work for us, and the initial cost difference is too great at least for now.

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[Gents]

Nowt wrong with that, if it’s what you want and you can afford it. Great !
It’s just sad to see youngsters being sucked in to huge debt thinking that, what’s parked outside is going to bring everything.

 

[Gents]

By the way!
The best car i ever owned was a Lotus Cortina, owned by a mate, who put every extra you could think on it, Bullet box 4.4-1 diff, updated struts, then his wife fell pregnant. I just happened to be at his house when she told him, and with enough cash to snatch it. Now that was a dream machine, in its day.
My missus went mad when I drove into our drive. A week later her car wouldn’t start, so I let her take the Lotus. Couldn’t get her out of it from then on.

 

[Gromett]

Gromett already said last week that in 2030 I think it was, his next motorhome will be an ICE one, as the electric one will be too expensive and not have the range he requires.

Not exactly what I said or meant.

 

[Gromett]

It's high time you got yourself an EV. Even if it is only a G-Wiz or a C5. Then you can start a thread about modding it to match Tesla. G'won, you know you want to.

I am a fulltimer. don't have space or situation for second vehicle.

 

[glenn2926]

A little story of why EVs are not the way forward in the real world.

Picked up the trailer, straight to the fabrication place and lad d the brewery. How’s your EV doing? Keeping up?
Left the fabricators and straight to Hull for the overnight ferry to zeebrugge. Oh topped off diesel before ferry. Still keeping up in your EV? Next morning and off we go. Chamonix here we come. Can’t stop over as the brewery on the trailer is far to expensive to leave unattended overnight. Also I have a dinner date in Chamonix at 20.00 the same night. Stopped twice for diesel and coffee. Lovely dinner that evening. Next morning delivered the brewery. Hope you managed to keep up in your EV. What do you mean no you didn’t? Surely you were there before me. EVs are the future, they’re more advanced than my beat up old pickup. Still hooked the trailer back on and Chamonix to Zeebrugge then ferry overnight, drop off the trailer and home just after lunch.
EVs the future? Yeah right.

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