2030 no new diesel vans. What's your plan?

[gus-lopez]

Once electric is the only choice the enjoyment and fun of driving and riding will be gone.

Exactly.The only reason I worked was for vehicles & to drive. No driving I wouldn't have worked.

ICE stresses me out with the constant drone of the engine,

You could only hear the tick of the speedo cable on my V12 XJS. & it was annoying.
You can't beat open pipes on a V8 though.

 

[SpeedyDux]

They would also need to simulate the power curve and breaks in acceleration for gear changes Just wouldn't feel right if there was a constant sound of acceleration that was disjointed with the seat of the pants feel...

... and that is precisely what my Honda hybrid does under hard acceleration. The sound simulates all the gear changes of a 6 speed manual gearbox, and the accompanying rise and dip in engine revs. Even though the electric propulsion motor is using a single forward gear, and as far as I can tell the ICE engine topping up the main battery is sat at steady high revs in that mode. That mock engine sound going up the imaginary gears is what the driver and passengers hear. I have no idea what sound the pedestrians hear outside the car. Under soft or medium acceleration you don't hear this ICE simulation at all, it is really quiet, not even electric motor whine. Only a slight rumble from the ICE when the battery charge is low. It's a marketing thing, I presume.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Exactly.The only reason I worked was for vehicles & to drive. No driving I wouldn't have worked.

You could only hear the tick of the speedo cable on my V12 XJS. & it was annoying.
You can't beat open pipes on a V8 though.

You can hear my mate's 2005 V8 Mustang 2 streets away. Fabulous noise.

The Corvette GT cars and Panoz prototypes used to be the loudest racing cars at Le Mans. The P1 class diesel prototypes such as Audis were very very quiet, by contrast. They merely hissed or swooshed. Not what proper racing cars should sound like.

Formula E is 1:1 scale Scalextric with a different kind of track. Not terribly good to watch and then only for lack of anything better.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Exactly.The only reason I worked was for vehicles & to drive. No driving I wouldn't have worked.

You could only hear the tick of the speedo cable on my V12 XJS. & it was annoying.
You can't beat open pipes on a V8 though.

You can hear my mate's 2005 V8 Mustang 2 streets away. Fabulous noise.

The Corvette GT cars and Panoz prototypes used to be the loudest racing cars at Le Mans. The P1 class diesel prototypes such as Audis were very very quiet, by contrast. They merely hissed or swooshed. Not what proper racing cars should sound like.

Formula E is 1:1 scale Scalextric with a different kind of track.

 

[Sundowners]

8 year warranty on most decent manufacturers.

8 years is no good!!!!
In portugal and many other countries that dont swamp their roads in salt every year there are a huge amount of cars still performing daily chores that are over 30 years old and already covered many 100s thousands of kms.
If a car is scrapped when the battery life of +- 8 years is up there will be a huge extra cost of running cars and I would think a massive increase in pollution to manufacture all those extra cars------- if people can afford to buy them------- just my thoughts!!

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[duane0001]

You can hear my mate's 2005 V8 Mustang 2 streets away. Fabulous

No it’s not a fabulous noise if you don’t want to hear it, I for one can not wait until all cars are near silent and I can only here the wind in the trees in my garden

 

[Gromett]

8 years is no good!!!!
In portugal and many other countries that dont swamp their roads in salt every year there are a huge amount of cars still performing daily chores that are over 30 years old and already covered many 100s thousands of kms.
If a car is scrapped when the battery life of +- 8 years is up there will be a huge extra cost of running cars and I would think a massive increase in pollution to manufacture all those extra cars------- if people can afford to buy them------- just my thoughts!!

That is the warranty. The batteries are expected to last the lifetime of the car. The warranty period indicates the length of time the manufacturer is confident that they will not face replacement costs.
There will be a buffer built into this figure for outliers. So after 8 years the battery is not just going to die on you.

How long does an ICE manufacturer give as a warranty on their engine? Does it die the day after the warranty expires?

 

[Coolcats]

If it wasn't for governments telling them to move to EV's they never would have. Even with pressure from Tesla they would have kept on producing their "clean" diesels because they have so much invested in it. Why change what works unless forced to.

The tories saying 2035 under may, got them moving slowly. Boris saying 2030 has put a fire cracker up their arses.

That made me chuckle, the government is lobbied by big industry, big industry spend millions in donations to shape government policy, including the petrochemical industry. Car manufactures and energy companies do the same, Boris’s announcement is driven by top level big industry plans. Manufactures are gearing up for EV’s which means many jobs within the industry are no longer needed the automotive industry business model is changing and it needs a political framework to help make this happen so Government policy is shaped by industry not the other way around. So Boris was announcing what industry needs as it changes shape. All technology is shaped by politics and big industry know this which is why millions are spent lobbying.

So when you consider Jim’s post yes in 10 years there will be EV Motorhomes and it will be interesting to see how sites upgrade to cope with them. In 20 years this will probably be a non subject as charging points will be installed at most sites due to demand.

 

[Gromett]

That made me chuckle, the government is lobbied by big industry, big industry spend millions in donations to shape government policy, including the petrochemical industry. Car manufactures and energy companies do the same, Boris’s announcement is driven by top level big industry plans. Manufactures are gearing up for EV’s which means many jobs within the industry are no longer needed the automotive industry business model is changing and it needs a political framework to help make this happen so Government policy is shaped by industry not the other way around. So Boris was announcing what industry needs as it changes shape. All technology is shaped by politics and big industry know this which is why millions are spent lobbying.

You really did make me laugh on this one. The industry is against the change and has been lobbying against the pace. It is only because of the diesel cheat scandal that they are accepting it at all.

The big companies will suffer from the changeover. They have vast numbers of staff that redundancy will need to be paid for. Huge sums will have to be spent on new factories or refitting existing ones. Huge sums will have to be spent on developing new technology and cars. Their investment in ICE engines will become worthless overnight. 10 years ago they said EV's couldn't be made profitably and they were at best a small part of the market. Tesla disproved this. So they then built compliance cars, which failed to satisfy regulators. The 2008 regulations in the EU kicked in at the start of this year and they are still fighting it. You only have to look at companies like FCA who are struggling to catch up and who's very survival is not guaranteed to see that they didn't want this.

Only 2 years ago and FCA still hadn't got moving even though they knew the new regulations kicked in this year.

Fiat Chrysler Will Reluctantly Join The EV Revolution — Sort Of - CleanTechnica

Fiat Chrysler says it will have 30 models with some degree of electrification on sale by 2022, although most of them will be ordinary hybrids with all the technical sophistication of a 2005 Prius.

cleantechnica.com

They are now having to pay for Carbon credits to Tesla which is effectively paying for Tesla's new German factory.

Fiat Chrysler will effectively fund Tesla's German factory, investment bank says

Fiat Chrysler could pay Tesla up to $2 billion under a deal with the electric-car maker that will help FCA comply with stricter emissions rules in Europe.

europe.autonews.com

Remember Fiat made the little Fiat 500 EV and the boss begged people not to buy them because they lost money on each one they made.

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

These companies were semi-succesful in lobbying against EV's until the Model 3 came out. At which point the regulators knew it was possible to produce a practical EV.

If these companies were lobbying FOR the changeover to EV and the ban on ICE. Don't you think they would have a full range of cars ready to go straight away.
The current surge in EV sales is not driven by legislation it is 100% driven by consumer demand. This is the final straw.

You also mention petrolchemical companies. Are you telling me they are lobbying for their own extinction caused by the move to EVs?

 

[JaG]

Probably won't give a toss as I am unlikely to be driving then but if I am and diesel stations are few and far between....go back to what it was in the late 60's when I first started driving....carry 5 x 5 gallons drums of fuel in the lockers...a mobile bomb as we called it.

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[Apache]

It's going to be interesting, maybe some back tracking around 2025 ?

Or a lot of late deliveries, plumbers and electricians not turning up, in fact everyone will have an excuse to be late "sorry guv, I'm stuck in a queue at the charging point"

Nowt new there then .

 

[tonyidle]

Compared to ICE yes. I’m sorry but a whirring electric motor isn’t doing it for me.

And what do you hear when driving a modern ICE car? Car makers strive to silence every component - largely successfully. We're discussing road vehicles. I enjoy the sound of a tortured engine more than most and love the internal combustion engine. It will live on for enthusiasts but only on the track where the full experience can be enjoyed. The driving dynamics of EVs can be thoroughly enjoyable - once past the shopping trolley versions they offer staggering performance.

 

[Mike Rivers]

What we don’t know yet is whether diesel fuel prices will be prohibitive. If they stay as they currently are you could opt to buy your last diesel motorhome, your “keeper” in 2029. As I understand it, the ban isn’t on diesel vehicles period, it’s only on ‘new’ diesel vehicle sales. However, if as I suspect diesel prices at the pump move upwards to help pay for the electric infrastructure and the price/weight/power of batteries has improved then we might be worrying about nothing. The only people who will get caught out are those who like to change their motorhome every few years in which case a new purchase from say 2027 onwards might/will probably be subject to massive depreciation unless as I said earlier you buy it with a view to keeping it.

 

[minesapint]

Growing market for electric engine transplants? You can already buy a Classic Mini (amongst others) with electric motor conversion.

I really cannot understand why anyone would take a perfectly good mini and turn it into a golf buggy car. We will all be encouraged soon to have foot driven Flintstone cars. Now there is progress !!.

 

[DIY campervan]

It looks like the nearer we get to 2030 we have decisions to make. Would you be mad to buy a new diesel van after say 2025? or do you think the prices of diesel will hold up in the move to electric, drop like a stone or maybe even go up?

I know that many of us will be able to hide our own easter eggs by 2030, but younger Funsters who expect to be motorhoming long into the 30's whats your plan? keep your van, buy newish now and keep it, wait and see, keep calm and carry on.

Listen guys this is madness, Boris trying to create a Legacy for himself but all he will do is embarrass himself making promises he cant deliver like Brexit. For one, my friend is part of a team in charge of the national grid infrastructure around the east riding and he said to me the network isn't built for it. He said it would have to be rebuilt to take the amount of draw a city would demand when every vehicle is plugging in on a night. Then thats the next issue. If you dont have a drive like most people then where are you going to plug in as that infrastructure ain't built either. 2040 we may have a chance to convert but bringing it forward ten years is just irresponsible and will grind the country to a holt.
If you own a Tesler then at the moment, running it is cheap yer but if you break down your screwed! AA wont touch you and you have to get Tesla's special team out to rescue you and the bill after that is astronomical.
As with the new cycle lanes, restricting access for everyone is another ridiculous idea where a few are looking for brownie points at the expense of everyone else (who are voters) but we all know its causing more pollution because of standing traffic.
The moral of this story is shut your mouths until you built the infrastructure first to cope with the changes or face a revolution or at least stick to 2040 as planned.

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[Gromett]

It's going to be interesting, maybe some back tracking around 2025 ?

Or a lot of late deliveries, plumbers and electricians not turning up, in fact everyone will have an excuse to be late "sorry guv, I'm stuck in a queue at the charging point"

Or more likely drivers get to the job on time because they don't have to queue in the filling station because they start each day off with a full charge. No problems with the van not starting on a cold morning.
No more clutch went, timing belt broke etc etc.

 

[Gromett]

Listen guys this is madness, Boris trying to create a Legacy for himself but all he will do is embarrass himself making promises he cant deliver like Brexit. For one, my friend is part of a team in charge of the national grid infrastructure around the east riding and he said to me the network isn't built for it. He said it would have to be rebuilt to take the amount of draw a city would demand when every vehicle is plugging in on a night. Then thats the next issue. If you dont have a drive like most people then where are you going to plug in as that infrastructure ain't built either. 2040 we may have a chance to convert but bringing it forward ten years is just irresponsible and will grind the country to a holt.
If you own a Tesler then at the moment, running it is cheap yer but if you break down your screwed! AA wont touch you and you have to get Tesla's special team out to rescue you and the bill after that is astronomical.
As with the new cycle lanes, restricting access for everyone is another ridiculous idea where a few are looking for brownie points at the expense of everyone else (who are voters) but we all know its causing more pollution because of standing traffic.
The moral of this story is shut your mouths until you built the infrastructure first to cope with the changes or face a revolution or at least stick to 2040 as planned.

The electric supply is designed for peak usage where everyone switches their kettle on at the same time, oven on all the lights on etc etc.

At night when an EV is on charge it will pull less current than that. Remember the EV gets charged at night on low tariff rate and pretty much everything else in the house is switched off.

 

[DIY campervan]

The electric supply is designed for peak usage where everyone switches their kettle on at the same time, oven on all the lights on etc etc.

At night when an EV is on charge it will pull less current than that. Remember the EV gets charged at night on low tariff rate and pretty much everything else in the house is switched off.

Very few people have their own drives to charge on a night and most have more than one car! Then what about the people who travel out of town when they stop to charge on route as a van range is like 90 miles for the sprinter, less if fully losded and less again if heater on, lights and radio on but guaranteed flat battery if stuck in traffic There are millions on the motorway at any given time. This ambition is laudable but not practical right now so put it back to 2040 is my ask, demand, request and give people a fighting chance.

 

[Gromett]

Very few people have their own drives to charge on a night and most have more than one car! Then what about the people who travel out of town when they stop to charge on route as a van range is like 90 miles for the sprinter, less if fully losded and less again if heater on, lights and radio on but guaranteed flat battery if stuck in traffic There are millions on the motorway at any given time. This ambition is laudable but not practical right now so put it back to 2040 is my ask, demand, request and give people a fighting chance.

There are figures out there that tell us how many have off road parking. You may be surprised to hear that the figure is as high as 84%.

You may also be surprised to hear that in areas with a higher percentage of homes without off street parking the figure for car ownership is a lot lower.

As for people who travel out of town. If they regularly do >90 miles then they would be stupid to buy one of the current EV vans. Wait until the range is suitable.

As for your stuck in traffic argument. That has been covered before. When an EV is not moving it uses zero electric for the motor. The ancillaries in a car take very little. The stuck in traffic argument is moot.

No one is saying it is practical right now for 100% of people. But in 10 years it will be. 10 years is long enough to get most of it done, but short enough to put a stick of dynamite up the car manufacturers bums.

REMEMBER: this is for new ICE cars only. If in 10 years the EV's available at the time don't suite you, don't buy one. Buy an ICE and plan on it lasting you 10 years and look after it. There you go, that's your 2040 plan covered.

The average lifespan of a car in the UK is 14 years till it is scrapped. So we are looking at 10 years of new ICE cars then 14 years of second hand ones. That is 24 years. That is for the average, look after your ICE car and it can last 20 years +.

 

[jockaneezer]

ICE, EV ? I'm getting myself an ECE, plenty of time to look at the scenery, depending on which way the wind is blowing !

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[Captain Birdseye]

I doubt that it will happen on that timescale. It is Boris talking after all. It won't matter anyway because if electric vehicles become the majority by then we will we buying log burners to cook on ank keep warm as electricty will be rationed, probably with rolling cuts like California. Polititians are great at lighting the blue touch paper knowing that someone else will be in charge when it all goes wrong, which it will.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

ICE, EV ? I'm getting myself an ECE, plenty of time to look at the scenery, depending on which way the wind is blowing !

Is that Euro 5 or 6

 

[Ancillotti]

I am working on my own design, everything will run on ‘oofle dust’. Those that know........

 

[SpeedyDux]

Sorry my Broadband keeps cutting out.

There are figures out there that tell us how many have off road parking. You may be surprised to hear that the figure is as high as 84%.

You may also be surprised to hear that in areas with a higher percentage of homes without off street parking the figure for car ownership is a lot lower.

That off-road parking number is misleading in the context of being able to charge an EV easily. It includes single garages too small for a modern car, often located in a separate garage block without mains electric supply. It includes allocated parking spaces that are not anywhere adjacent to the car owner's dwelling. A freehold house like my last one had a private parking space that backed on to a neighbour's garden, not mine, so I would need an extension lead across a pavement to charge an EV in my own parking space. Then there are the luxury flats with private underground parking. I considered buying one of those a while ago when I got divorced, then thought better of it, security being one issue.

 

[DIY campervan]

There are figures out there that tell us how many have off road parking. You may be surprised to hear that the figure is as high as 84%.

You may also be surprised to hear that in areas with a higher percentage of homes without off street parking the figure for car ownership is a lot lower.

As for people who travel out of town. If they regularly do >90 miles then they would be stupid to buy one of the current EV vans. Wait until the range is suitable.

As for your stuck in traffic argument. That has been covered before. When an EV is not moving it uses zero electric for the motor. The ancillaries in a car take very little. The stuck in traffic argument is moot.

No one is saying it is practical right now for 100% of people. But in 10 years it will be. 10 years is long enough to get most of it done, but short enough to put a stick of dynamite up the car manufacturers bums.

REMEMBER: this is for new ICE cars only. If in 10 years the EV's available at the time don't suite you, don't buy one. Buy an ICE and plan on it lasting you 10 years and look after it. There you go, that's your 2040 plan covered.

The average lifespan of a car in the UK is 14 years till it is scrapped. So we are looking at 10 years of new ICE cars then 14 years of second hand ones. That is 24 years. That is for the average, look after your ICE car and it can last 20 years +.

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[DIY campervan]

You make it sound text book simple! First of all i have a jag 25 years old 64k miles on the clock in mint condition. i was planning on it lasting me my full life for those Sunday drives out. Ok not a normal scenario granted but i cant afford to replace it with an overpriced electric car with batteries you have to rent! . My small van for work will defo go electric but my camping capers are ruined at the stroke of a Boris pen. You cant set the stall out then change the goal posts, that aint fair. Not without a plausible alternative and not before time. 2040 was set to that time. We will have zero impact on the planet unless giant countries, heavy polluting countries fall in multilaterally. All boris is doing is trying to create a legacy for himself whilst creating chaos, financial and unachievable misery for most people just to say where the first! Correct? Yes of course correct as the announcement stated “to be the first”
I live in hull and the east side of the city are just basically council houses with zero off road parking as these estates where built with space and playing fields in mind. Then the majority of private dwellings are terrace houses with zero off road parking. Only the lucky wealthier few in this city have the luxury of off road parking including myself but Going back to driving out of town, this forum is about camping. This often requires long journeys and pulling weight which is where my bugbear comes in because it wont be feasible to keep on driving 25 years on in a camper or caravan anymore! Not without big money thus negating our biggest pleasure in life roaming around freely in our well deserved retirement. I retire in 18 years time but i was planning on slowing down well before then and travelling around more than just weekend breaks. Even if i could afford and electric RV which i cant for my retirement. It would currently take 30 stops to get to southern spain from hull. Because of the low range which aint gunna improve that much in ten years without a huge £30k battery trainling behind you! You see 90 miles range is dramatically cut when your pulling a load, if its freezing outside and stuck in traffic. The heater will zap the battery! You can still flatten it going no where. Plus if you plan ahead a safe range of 50 miles and the next charging point is 30 and 60 then you aint gunna do 50 miles are you! Your only gunna do thirty per charge. Its just not practical and heavier vehicles should be exempt at the moment until say hydrogen cells become mainstream for 3.5k tonne and above. Basically what I'm trying to say is my retirement is ruined because Boris at the stroke of a pen has unnecessarily moved the goal posts to make him look good. 2040 was the legislation and they should stick to it.

 

[Gromett]

I doubt that it will happen on that timescale. It is Boris talking after all. It won't matter anyway because if electric vehicles become the majority by then we will we buying log burners to cook on ank keep warm as electricty will be rationed, probably with rolling cuts like California. Polititians are great at lighting the blue touch paper knowing that someone else will be in charge when it all goes wrong, which it will.

People were calling my predictions of a doubling each year of EV market share crazy and mocking me. That was 2 years ago when it was on <1% market share. Last Nov was 3%, this november 9%.

People actually do like them once they have experienced them. The ICE ban has brought awareness of them to the public as a whole and the only thing preventing them growing market share is that manufacturers can't make them fast enough due to battery constraints.
Latest example was Opel who sold out their entire production run before it is even launched.

Opel 'surprised' as Mokka-e sells out before launch. When will manufacturers learn EVs are popular?

It's happened yet again: Another EV sold out before it launched. So what's it going to take to convince manufacturers that consumers want EVs?

electrek.co

The VW ID.3 went into production over a year ago, but due to software issues they couldn't sell them. So they were sat in a car park. The stock levels were huge. They sold them all in 3 months , they could have sold them faster but deliveries were the issue I hear.

EV's are a lot more popular amongst the younger and middle aged population than you would imagine.

 

[Gromett]

You make it sound text book simple! First of all i have a jag 25 years old 64k miles on the clock in mint condition. i was planning on it lasting me my full life for those Sunday drives out. Ok not a normal scenario granted but i cant afford to replace it with an overpriced electric car with batteries you have to rent! . My small van for work will defo go electric but my camping capers are ruined at the stroke of a Boris pen. You cant set the stall out then change the goal posts, that aint fair. Not without a plausible alternative and not before time. 2040 was set to that time. We will have zero impact on the planet unless giant countries, heavy polluting countries fall in multilaterally. All boris is doing is trying to create a legacy for himself whilst creating chaos, financial and unachievable misery for most people just to say where the first! Correct? Yes of course correct as the announcement stated “to be the first”
I live in hull and the east side of the city are just basically council houses with zero off road parking as these estates where built with space and playing fields in mind. Then the majority of private dwellings are terrace houses with zero off road parking. Only the lucky wealthier few in this city have the luxury of off road parking including myself but Going back to driving out of town, this forum is about camping. This often requires long journeys and pulling weight which is where my bugbear comes in because it wont be feasible to keep on driving 25 years on in a camper or caravan anymore! Not without big money thus negating our biggest pleasure in life roaming around freely in our well deserved retirement. I retire in 18 years time but i was planning on slowing down well before then and travelling around more than just weekend breaks. Even if i could afford and electric RV which i cant for my retirement. It would currently take 30 stops to get to southern spain from hull. Because of the low range which aint gunna improve that much in ten years without a huge £30k battery trainling behind you! You see 90 miles range is dramatically cut when your pulling a load, if its freezing outside and stuck in traffic. The heater will zap the battery! You can still flatten it going no where. Plus if you plan ahead a safe range of 50 miles and the next charging point is 30 and 60 then you aint gunna do 50 miles are you! Your only gunna do thirty per charge. Its just not practical and heavier vehicles should be exempt at the moment until say hydrogen cells become mainstream for 3.5k tonne and above. Basically what I'm trying to say is my retirement is ruined because Boris at the stroke of a pen has unnecessarily moved the goal posts to make him look good. 2040 was the legislation and they should stick to it.

No one is forcing you to sell your jag so nothing changes there.

What's with the batteries you have to rent thing? Only a few manufacturers do this and it is optional. Most sell the car with the battery.

Your camping capers are not ruined. Keep doing what you do now until the technology catches up.

It is 5 years difference and you can still buy a hybrid in those 5 years after the ban. So that leaves 5 years gap. Not a hardship really. I suspect Brexit will have more of an impact than the ban on new ICE cars in 2030.

Are you telling me because china isn't doing enough we shouldn't either?

Your retirement is not ruined. You may need to make some adjustments but it is not ruined.

 

[Bruchel]

Growing market for electric engine transplants? You can already buy a Classic Mini (amongst others) with electric motor conversion.

I'd say you're right. I saw this recently about a VW Beetle conversion, so no reason to think there won't be companies popping up to convert Moho's.

 

[Terry]

Just a thought! Why don't manufacturers make bonnets,roof and boots with built-in solar panels for the leccy cars and trucks ?(I mean proper built in not stuck on panels) I don't have a clue how much leccy it would generate but it may improve the range quite a bit ?

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