2030 no new diesel vans. What's your plan?

[CazPaul]

Of course people do their bit, plant a tree, sort their rubbish, but we're all part of the problem. We choose our lifestyle, but blame 'Man' as if he isn't us.

I have to disagree, man kills other men etc but we are not all responsible.

 

[Jim]

I have to disagree, man kills other men etc but we are not all responsible.

How are we not all responsible, no one says you need a motor car or a computer. You want those things. You want them cheaper. You can't blame anyone else

 

[Coolcats]

Tad ironic to be sat in a diesel motorhome using electricity powered machines to browse and electricity powered internet, moaning about what man has done to the planet. It's not man, ITS YOU!

Absolutely spot on Jim which is why it is so difficult to have an answer or solution to the human problem just have to ha e another biscuit and mug of tea.

 

[glenn2926]

Perhaps Covid 19 was nature trying to redress the balance re over population. We soon put a stop to that by locking down and protecting the vulnerable. Nature doesn’t stand a chance when we thwart it at every turn.

 

[Gromett]

Coolcats Check this out.

Could Cornwall see a Lithium battery revolution?

British Lithium is prospecting in the county to find economically viable seams of the element.

www.bbc.co.uk

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[Cheshirecat57]

Anyway, to get back to Jims OP, i dont really have a plan, i will be 73, kids can plan everything for me

 

[Coolcats]

Coolcats Check this out.

Could Cornwall see a Lithium battery revolution?

British Lithium is prospecting in the county to find economically viable seams of the element.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yup thanks I have seen it

 

[Neil S]

We’re finished with motorhomes after next summer , selling up and just going to use our caravan more .
Looking to update our tow car to something fully electric within the next 1-2 years and will use campsites with EHU which will suffice our heating and cooking needs
No more LPG usage if at all possible

 

[Gromett]

Yup thanks I have seen it

Nice and small isn't it any damage which I think would be limited anyway will only be for an extremely small area.

Much better than spreading oil across the coastlines, acidifying the entire ocean and heating the planet up.

 

[Gromett]

LBC radio during last week said..’an electric car don’t start getting green until it’s done over 50,000 miles. Just saying.

Turns out this "report" was made up by a marketing/lobbying company.

Probably most people won't read this thread, but it covers in a fair amount of detail what this "report" got wrong and who sponsored it which reveals their bias.

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[Gromett]

Looks like Electrek follow the same people on twitter that I do. Just doing my final scour of the news sites before going to bed and spotted this;

Did Aston Martin publish fake emission numbers about EVs?

A report claims that EVs must travel 50,000 miles before its carbon footprint betters an ICE vehicle. Was the report a sleight of hand by Aston Martin?

electrek.co

 

[Coolcats]

Nice and small isn't it any damage which I think would be limited anyway will only be for an extremely small area.

Much better than spreading oil across the coastlines, acidifying the entire ocean and heating the planet up.

For the moment, once demand ramps up it could expand its the way of the world, when your told your going to have 500 houses built it’s not long until a further 500 are built and I can imagine the local residents are delighted to have an open mine quarry with all the trucks dust and noise so no it’s not a perfect solution it’s yet another hole in the earth. (So the existing lithium extraction operations are clearly not enough)

As I say I don’t have the answers but man will continue to have a reason for mineral extraction that affects the Enviroment

 

[Coolcats]

Turns out this "report" was made up by a marketing/lobbying company.

Probably most people won't read this thread, but it covers in a fair amount of detail what this "report" got wrong and who sponsored it which reveals their bias.

That’s interesting the Twitter link is showing the VW Golf looks better that the Tesla Model 3

 

[TheAleMan]

Turns out this "report" was made up by a marketing/lobbying company.

Probably most people won't read this thread, but it covers in a fair amount of detail what this "report" got wrong and who sponsored it which reveals their bias.

Could be a counter bluff. I’m left as to who to believe.

 

[Coolcats]

James Lovelock, have to say this is one Scientist I would love to have met, he is amazing if you haven't read his work have a peek you may enjoy it. He is a very special guy have a peek at this BBC interview

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[XxAnthxX]

Don’t worry Elon has it covered......

Tesla Camper Concept: Meet the Cyber 5th-Wheel

A U.K. YouTuber unveiled a rendering for a Tesla pull-behind camper designed specifically for the Cybertruck. And it looks as wild as the truck itself.

gearjunkie.com

 

[SpeedyDux]

Nice and small isn't it any damage which I think would be limited anyway will only be for an extremely small area.

Much better than spreading oil across the coastlines, acidifying the entire ocean and heating the planet up.

On your last point, scientists are predicting that we are heading into a Grand Solar Minimum, so a bit of AGW may help to offset this coming freeze / mini ice age*. China appears to be preparing for this, but the UK Net Zero CO2 goal is all going in the opposite direction at least for now.

*I am really not looking forward to the coming big freeze at all. I might need to emigrate to the tropics.

 

[SpeedyDux]

An interesting paper for Gromett to discuss.

<Broken link removed>

If this paper is correct, the conclusion that it will cost about double to run a private EV car than a comparable ICE car would suggest that the cost of running an EV motorhome could be double that of running a diesel motorhome.

On that basis a prudent Funster might choose to stick with diesel until that ceases to be the more economic option.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

An interesting paper for Gromett to discuss.

<Broken link removed>

If this paper is correct, the conclusion that it will cost about double to run a private EV car than a comparable ICE car would suggest that the cost of running an EV motorhome could be double that of running a diesel motorhome.

On that basis a prudent Funster might choose to stick with diesel until that ceases to be the more economic option.

Just for interested parties knowledge, this geezer ( Montford) is a right wing, global warming denialist.
just saying

 

[AG 2602]

Just an aside, but in Turkey, on the Dalyan river delta, the co-operative boat taxis to take you up the river were converted to electric engines with big solar panels on the roof/ sun canopy.
The river delta is an area of ecological , environmental and natural importance, and the diesel boats were having a major negative effect on the water quality and environment.
The electric powered boats were very good, and still well powered, but then Turkey does get a lot of sun!

Just an aside one of our favorite places! Beautiful

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[Gromett]

An interesting paper for Gromett to discuss.

<Broken link removed>

If this paper is correct, the conclusion that it will cost about double to run a private EV car than a comparable ICE car would suggest that the cost of running an EV motorhome could be double that of running a diesel motorhome.

On that basis a prudent Funster might choose to stick with diesel until that ceases to be the more economic option.

Got so far in and gave up sorry. He made many assumptions for his calculations which are simply just not true. It is a load of crap based on that alone. Sorry.

If you insist I will read it later and break it down why it is way out.

 

[Gromett]

For the moment, once demand ramps up it could expand its the way of the world, when your told your going to have 500 houses built it’s not long until a further 500 are built and I can imagine the local residents are delighted to have an open mine quarry with all the trucks dust and noise so no it’s not a perfect solution it’s yet another hole in the earth. (So the existing lithium extraction operations are clearly not enough)

As I say I don’t have the answers but man will continue to have a reason for mineral extraction that affects the Enviroment

Not the same thing. Even the largest copper mine in the world covers less than 10 miles across it's widest point. Whereas the oil fields continue to spread across 500 miles of Canada. The damage done by one oil leak in the sea is felt for decades across 100's of miles of coastline. It is all relative.

 

[gus-lopez]

EVEN if it is true across the piste. That means that after 50K miles they are cleaner than ICE cars.

No it actally said that it took 50K /10 years for parity with the ICE vehicle WHEN NEW.

I’m sure we will end up with no choice for power for anything except electric. Which is worrying to me.
Now I have an electric fire a gas boiler and an open fire which I burn wood or coal on. I have a gas hob and an electric oven and microwave. I have a petrol car, petrol motorbike , diesel pickup, diesel motorhome in which my fridge can run off battery, gas, or electric, I have an lpg hob and heating that can run using gas or electric.
When there is a shortage of any of the aforementioned fuels I have alternative fuelled appliances available.
When there is no choice and then a shortage of the only fuel what choice is there? None. Putting all your eggs in one basket has always been thought foolish. Some on here obviously think this is a good idea. I’m not convinced.

Spoke to my sister the other night .Unfortunately she rang on video I asked why she was wearing a hat ,coat,gloves, scarf something else around her neck. Didn't the heating work ? Yes but it is night storage & not very efficient.
This in a retirement apartment. I felt quite sad talking to her in a T shirt.

Here is an article about the damage oil does. If you read the Lithium one please read this one. Then tell me which one you prefer.

Terrible place Tar sands & been going on for years. I watched programmes on the indigenous population & the illnesses & cancers they have suffered & that was before moving here.

If the nuclear plant ever gets built it will be too little too late.

Because they should have been building them regularly over the last 50 years.

You want those things. You want them cheaper. You can't blame anyone else

You can .It is the others wanting what you have that is the problem.

Looking to update our tow car to something fully electric within the next 1-2 years

Hopefullt something capable of towing will be available from many manufactureres by then.

Turns out this "report" was made up by a marketing/lobbying company.

But the Volvo electric car CEO is saying the same thing ? polestar is it ?

 

[IanF]

I hope to be alive and well by 2030 and either have looked after my current MH which will likely only have 50K miles on the clock(I'll have 84 and hopefully still healthy!!) or get one which has been well looked after,
So at 50K it will only have 20% of it's normal life expired and I'll have 95% of mine.
Bugger it I'll not worry about the concept Jim raised at all.
Stay safe
Ian

 

[Gromett]

No it actally said that it took 50K /10 years for parity with the ICE vehicle WHEN NEW.

Well that makes even less sense. If an EV does 0 miles over 10 years and an ICE car does 50K over 10 years the maths doesn't work the same... The EV stopped generating CO2 as it came out of the factory, the ICE car continued to pump out CO2 from the exhaust over 10 years.

But the Volvo electric car CEO is saying the same thing ? polestar is it ?

I haven't seen that. can you share a link? Did he do the maths himself or is he just repeating other peoples work? If the latter who is he quoting?

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[Gromett]

No it actally said that it took 50K /10 years for parity with the ICE vehicle WHEN NEW.

I will correct my previous quote. I knew what I was trying to say but got the answer wrong.

The number of years is irrelevant. If you buy an ICE car and an EV and store them in a garage for 10 years then the ICE wins. If you store it for 20 years the ICE wins.

It is only if you drive them that there is a changeover point where the EV becomes "cleaner" and that point according to most researchers is around the 16K mark on average.

 

[Sid52]

I think this is the report. Compares the Polestar to the Volvo XC40. It uses various electricity mixes of global, European and only wind. Parity with the ICE comes out at at 112k, 78k, 50k kilometres
Page 5 for the graph

https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1600176185-20200915polestarlcafinala.pdf

 

[Gromett]

I think this is the report. Compares the Polestar to the Volvo XC40. It uses various electricity mixes of global, European and only wind. Parity with the ICE comes out at at 112k, 78k, 50k kilometres
Page 5 for the graph

https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1600176185-20200915polestarlcafinala.pdf

I don't have time to go through the full report, so I just looked for the specific data. This is the graph that tells us what we need to know.

The 1st and 3rd bar are the one's of interest. So it is 58 vs 42. The European average figure for electricity mix is slightly higher than ours I believe and ours is falling fairly quickly. So if you buy a Polestar 2 now then it will get cleaner over time.

My only technical query about the report is the batteries. Do they allow for the 2nd life use of the batteries after they have been removed from the car? These batteries will be going into 2nd use deployments such as grid storage where energy density is not such an issue. This second use will also decrease CO2 production further. Every KWh stored in this second use battery and it's following deployment will be a KWh of gas not burned in this country for example.

In 10 years I suspect the UK figure would be closer to the 27 figure, and if the battery life in a second use scenario was considered at or below the 27 figure. So half.

Just my opinion.

 

[Sid52]

As far as I know this is Pole

I don't have time to go through the full report, so I just looked for the specific data. This is the graph that tells us what we need to know.

View attachment 445082

The 1st and 3rd bar are the one's of interest. So it is 58 vs 42. The European average figure for electricity mix is slightly higher than ours I believe and ours is falling fairly quickly. So if you buy a Polestar 2 now then it will get cleaner over time.

My only technical query about the report is the batteries. Do they allow for the 2nd life use of the batteries after they have been removed from the car? These batteries will be going into 2nd use deployments such as grid storage where energy density is not such an issue. This second use will also decrease CO2 production further. Every KWh stored in this second use battery and it's following deployment will be a KWh of gas not burned in this country for example.

In 10 years I suspect the UK figure would be closer to the 27 figure, and if the battery life in a second use scenario was considered at or below the 27 figure. So half.

Just my opinion.

The graph is on page 5. This plots carbon amount against mileage
The data is based on a 200km life

 

[Cheshirecat57]

We’re finished with motorhomes after next summer , selling up and just going to use our caravan more .
Looking to update our tow car to something fully electric within the next 1-2 years and will use campsites with EHU which will suffice our heating and cooking needs
No more LPG usage if at all possible

Have you shortlisted any EVs so far? My Kia has a zero towing capacity
Does anyone know of a full EV at the moment with any kind of tow capacity?

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