Would you smoke a spliff before driving your Motorhome ??

[Nigel P]

I always smile when the subject of enforcement costs are raised, the old line about police losing the battle aginst drug use so we should make it legal. Perhaps that should extend to all the other offences that are in the 'losing' category: Rape, domestic abuse, burglary, theft! Clearly not a compelling argument.

 

[mitzimad]

The Police can do a roadside test to determine if it is likely someone is over the limit with alcohol in their blood. Is there a similar roadside test for other drugs? If not it would be difficult to enforce any laws allowing 'some' use of drugs. What would be the limit?

yes theres already a limit and test

 

[mitzimad]

latest figure show roughly 10 percent of the population has taken drugs in the last 12 months by the time you take out those under 10 and those over sixtysix that would be higher still do you see carnage on our streets ?

i uysed sixty six as a pensioner is least likely to be ablre to afford drugs

 

[Yorick]

It's legal here to grow up to 3 plants for your own consumption. The products must never leave your house though.

 

[2657]

I always smile when the subject of enforcement costs are raised, the old line about police losing the battle aginst drug use so we should make it legal. Perhaps that should extend to all the other offences that are in the 'losing' category: Rape, domestic abuse, burglary, theft! Clearly not a compelling argument.

Clearly not a logical argument that you are presenting, cause and effect are different.

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[Nigel P]

I simply suggested that because something proves difficult to achieve is not necessarily a good reason to give up. There was no suggestion they were comparable offences.
I have yet to see any compelling evidence that the benefits of dangerous drug use outweigh the well documented miserable outcomes.

 

[2657]

I simply suggested that because something proves difficult to achieve is not necessarily a good reason to give up. There was no suggestion they were comparable offences.
I have yet to see any compelling evidence that the benefits of dangerous drug use outweigh the well documented miserable outcomes.

I quite agree with your last sentence but there are a few points worthy of discussion.
The first is what constitutes a dangerous drug, in my opinion cannabis used sensibly is far less dangerous than the legal dangerous drugs of alcohol and tobacco.
People being people, young people in particular, many will be inclined to experiment, particularly with illicit substances that have to be sourced from criminal sources. Take away the criminality and the cudos of taking these drugs will be taken away for many.
Many of the problems associated with hard drugs stem from the product being adulterated, legal sources would be of guaranteed quality. This also applies to cannabis, look at what is available in the legal cannabis shops in the USA, different varieties with THC and CBD levels quoted.
Believe it or not there many long term cocaine and even heroin users that control their usage and in my opinion would not be termed addicts.

 

[slowdriver]

Personally i'm against the idea of legalising the possession of even small quantities, anything that normalises or takes away the stigma of using drugs of any kind is not good in my opinion. ....

So conversely would you be in favour of criminalising all alcohol consumption. The health risks are as high or higher than dope, I imagine the accident rate and the outcomes for drunk driving is greater/worse than doped driving.
Assuming that's the case would it not be cheaper for society and the NHS to criminalise alcohol and decriminalise dope or ban them both? Or do you believe alcohol can't be prohibited / toothpaste/tube etc.

 

[busby]

I always smile when the subject of enforcement costs are raised, the old line about police losing the battle aginst drug use so we should make it legal. Perhaps that should extend to all the other offences that are in the 'losing' category: Rape, domestic abuse, burglary, theft! Clearly not a compelling argument.

But those crimes you mention are being ignored because of the war on drugs which they are loosing..BUSBY.

 

[slowdriver]

I simply suggested that because something proves difficult to achieve is not necessarily a good reason to give up. There was no suggestion they were comparable offences.
I have yet to see any compelling evidence that the benefits of dangerous drug use outweigh the well documented miserable outcomes.

And I have yet to see anyone arguing that using dangerous drugs has a benefit.
Mind you the Scotch Whisky Society, The Wine society, CAMRA and others might be able to provide some if asked. It's their business. (Nb I have been a member of all three at one time or another)

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[spikehcm681]

London Mayor proposes decriminalising cannabis,

Sadiq Khan plans pilot to ‘decriminalise’ minor cannabis offences in London

London scheme could ‘divert young people found with small amount of cannabis’ away from arrest by police

www.theguardian.com

The original post was under the title

Would you smoke a spliff before driving your Motorhome ??​

My answer is - no, I wouldn't drive under the influence of any drug - which includes the drug/chemical C2H5OH.

But I don't see a direct link between anyone driving under the influence and possession - apart from the obvious one that you would have to have some in order to drive under its influence.

So my question to the OP is - are you just asking for our opinions or are you wondering if decriminalising possession will lead to more people driving under the influence?

The vast majority of people understand why it is dangerous, and illegal, to drive under the influence of alcohol - which is both a legal drug and freely available. Sadly, for a variety of reasons (addiction, stupidity, chancing it etc) people still do.

I'm assuming, as this is a Politics-free forum, that there is no political undertone behind the posting.

( I can@t find an emoji which signifies keeping a straight face)

 

[Guigsy]

Portugal have a pretty good approach. Decriminalised purchase and possession for personal use. It's still an administrative offence, so if drugs are discovered, they are generally confiscated and fines are issued, but no criminal record. Anyone on drugs is offered support to help them quit. I think dealing is still an offence? But drug use is considered a health issue rather than a crime.

And yet they have drug use and drug deaths well below EU averages.

 

[2657]

Portugal have a pretty good approach. Decriminalised purchase and possession for personal use. It's still an administrative offence, so if drugs are discovered, they are generally confiscated and fines are issued, but no criminal record. Anyone on drugs is offered support to help them quit. I think dealing is still an offence? But drug use is considered a health issue rather than a crime.

And yet they have drug use and drug deaths well below EU averages.

The Portuguese aproach is good but still has some anomolies, whilst possession is decriminalised for small quantities for personal use, selling is illegal. Growing cannabis plants is illegal without a licence, even for personal use and the possession of seeds is still a criminal offence.
The logical approach would be to allow the growing of a few plants for personal use as is apparently the case in the Canary Islands.

 

[Ridgeway]

in answer to the OP question, definitely not. Herbal tea is about my limit these days.

 

[ChrisL]

So conversely would you be in favour of criminalising all alcohol consumption. The health risks are as high or higher than dope, I imagine the accident rate and the outcomes for drunk driving is greater/worse than doped driving.
Assuming that's the case would it not be cheaper for society and the NHS to criminalise alcohol and decriminalise dope or ban them both? Or do you believe alcohol can't be prohibited / toothpaste/tube etc.

It's a very good question, although i'm not sure i understand the toothpaste/tube analogy, i certainly have had friends that have had drinking problems and a couple that have died either directly or indirectly because of their drinking, the problem with banning alcohol in the UK or the western world is that it has been part of our popular culture for milenia. I'm 67 now, as a youngster i tried most of the drugs that were available apart from heroin or other opiates but i saw what it was doing to the people i knew and decided it was not for me and not a good thing for society, legalising it will perhaps remove the criminal element if it's provided from government controlled sources however what will be the effect on the lives of young people if it is easily available? As i said i don't know what the answer is i just don't think legalising it will help.

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[slowdriver]

I think the evidence from Spain and the Netherlands is that de-criminalising low level possession helps.
People have always done drugs of one sort or another. I see no evidence in the Prohibition era in the USA or more recently in this country that it works. It enables gangsters, leads to adulteration of the product, criminalises ordinary people, the rich can afford the good stuff and the good lawyers, the rest cannot. Arguably corrupts police forces more than they would otherwise be, by providing an additional and significant income stream.
If you legalise it you get to control quality, as with alcohol, you can tax it to incentivise or not consumption, the costs of policing fall dramatically, the tax on consumption can fund the healthcare and costs consequences, which are already there in an illegal model. I can't see why we couldn't at least experiment along the lines of the Dutch and the Spanish. And more to the point we have absolutely failed to get anywhere at all through criminalisation. Why not do a test?

 

[Larrynwin]

6

The original post was under the title

Would you smoke a spliff before driving your Motorhome ??​

My answer is - no, I wouldn't drive under the influence of any drug - which includes the drug/chemical C2H5OH.

But I don't see a direct link between anyone driving under the influence and possession - apart from the obvious one that you would have to have some in order to drive under its influence.

So my question to the OP is - are you just asking for our opinions or are you wondering if decriminalising possession will lead to more people driving under the influence?

The vast majority of people understand why it is dangerous, and illegal, to drive under the influence of alcohol - which is both a legal drug and freely available. Sadly, for a variety of reasons (addiction, stupidity, chancing it etc) people still do.

I'm assuming, as this is a Politics-free forum, that there is no political undertone behind the posting.

( I can@t find an emoji which signifies keeping a straight face)

As the OP I raised this as a subject that is always a degree controversial and raises many issues, not for political reasons.
I do not believe that recreational/social drugs of any kind are sensible. Most people can consume sensibly but the pain and direct/indirect cost caused by misuse and addiction is unhelpful and often end up a burden on the health service .
I don’t know what the costs of tobacco and alcohol misuse are but to potentially add further problems by taking another step up the drug ladder by encouraging the use of cannabis only makes sense to those that need a kick, many of who will in the end be sorry they ever started.
I used to smoke but totally stopped over 25years ago and wish I never had started.
I like beer wine spirits etc and have been under the table a few times in my life but only take the odd glass of wine or malt now, but I am fortunate that I can take it or leave it but many cannot and that’s where the problems lie.

 

[Speve]

The question needs to be asked? Why does anyone need to take these drugs? I’ve lived for nearly seventy years and never felt the need to try any other than alcohol and cigarettes which I haven’t smoked since 1977.

 

[mitzimad]

I quite agree with your last sentence but there are a few points worthy of discussion.
The first is what constitutes a dangerous drug, in my opinion cannabis used sensibly is far less dangerous than the legal dangerous drugs of alcohol and tobacco.
People being people, young people in particular, many will be inclined to experiment, particularly with illicit substances that have to be sourced from criminal sources. Take away the criminality and the cudos of taking these drugs will be taken away for many.
Many of the problems associated with hard drugs stem from the product being adulterated, legal sources would be of guaranteed quality. This also applies to cannabis, look at what is available in the legal cannabis shops in the USA, different varieties with THC and CBD levels quoted.
Believe it or not there many long term cocaine and even heroin users that control their usage and in my opinion would not be termed addicts.

There's a conception that all users are addicts are all drinkers alcoholics?Many people use drugs recreationally all their lives without any problem ,these are people who work have families and live full normal lives, who by the illegality of drugs are forced to deal with the criminals and to risk criminal charges which can have a greater effect than the drugs them selves.what no one considers is the fact that drug taking must be nice for people to carry on risking charges

 

[mitzimad]

The question needs to be asked? Why does anyone need to take these drugs? I’ve lived for nearly seventy years and never felt the need to try any other than alcohol and cigarettes which I haven’t smoked since 1977.

i assume from what youve written you still drink can i ask you why?

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[Larrynwin]

There's a conception that all users are addicts are all drinkers alcoholics?Many people use drugs recreationally all their lives without any problem ,these are people who work have families and live full normal lives, who by the illegality of drugs are forced to deal with the criminals and to risk criminal charges which can have a greater effect than the drugs them selves.what no one considers is the fact that drug taking must be nice for people to carry on risking charges

All users are not addicts and most enjoy and can control use of recreational drugs, the problem comes later in life when alcohol and smoking often end with crippling problems such as COPD diabetes lung fibrosis etc and spending your retiring years taking oxygen can be no pleasure.
Legalising drugs will not eliminate criminals, they will just adjust their operation pushing harder on other drugs to ensure they don’t lose their income.
Recreational drugs make no sense.

 

[busby]

6

As the OP I raised this as a subject that is always a degree controversial and raises many issues, not for political reasons.
I do not believe that recreational/social drugs of any kind are sensible. Most people can consume sensibly but the pain and direct/indirect cost caused by misuse and addiction is unhelpful and often end up a burden on the health service .
I don’t know what the costs of tobacco and alcohol misuse are but to potentially add further problems by taking another step up the drug ladder by encouraging the use of cannabis only makes sense to those that need a kick, many of who will in the end be sorry they ever started.
I used to smoke but totally stopped over 25years ago and wish I never had started.
I like beer wine spirits etc and have been under the table a few times in my life but only take the odd glass of wine or malt now, but I am fortunate that I can take it or leave it but many cannot and that’s where the problems lie.

Add to that GAMBLING which is legal but must cause terrible social problems..Cannot believe the amount of advertising that is allowed,,its nearly compulsory,,,BUSBY..

 

[Larrynwin]

Add to that GAMBLING which is legal but must cause terrible social problems..Cannot believe the amount of advertising that is allowed,,its nearly compulsory,,,BUSBY..

I find the adverts amusing that state, gamble responsibly or drink alcohol responsibly , does anyone read it other than me

 

[Speve]

i assume from what youve written you still drink can i ask you why?

I may have the occasional glass of wine with a meal but that’s all and why because I enjoy a glass very occasionally

 

[The Wino]

Whilst not an offence as such but.....

Is it against the law to drive while tired?​

There isn't a specific offence of driving when tired but doing so significantly increases the chance of you committing other offences or causing a collision. The penalty for causing death by dangerous driving is up to 14 years imprisonment.

And from HM Gov:

Excessive sleepiness and driving​

I wasn't saying it was a good idea to drive when tired. But not legalising drugs because they might affect driving seems odd when there are lots of causes of impaired driving without any recognised test and there are for a lot of drugs.

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[mitzimad]

All users are not addicts and most enjoy and can control use of recreational drugs, the problem comes later in life when alcohol and smoking often end with crippling problems such as COPD diabetes lung fibrosis etc and spending your retiring years taking oxygen can be no pleasure.
Legalising drugs will not eliminate criminals, they will just adjust their operation pushing harder on other drugs to ensure they don’t lose their income.
Recreational drugs make no sense.

how do tobacco and alcohol make any sense

 

[The Wino]

Add to that GAMBLING which is legal but must cause terrible social problems..Cannot believe the amount of advertising that is allowed,,its nearly compulsory,,,BUSBY..

And you could argue with the setting up of the national lottery government approved

 

[Larrynwin]

how do tobacco and alcohol make any sense

They don’t.

 

[2657]

I may have the occasional glass of wine with a meal but that’s all and why because I enjoy a glass very occasionally

I enjoy a spliff occasionally......I also enjoy the occasional beer, glass of wine, tot of rum but the spliff makes me a criminal even though I have no contact with criminal dealers.

 

[Speve]

I enjoy a spliff occasionally......I also enjoy the occasional beer, glass of wine, tot of rum but the spliff makes me a criminal even though I have no contact with criminal dealers.

That’s your choice you knew the laws before you started using?

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