Wood burning stoves

[Silver-Fox]

Although when we had a similar thing quite a few years ago we we're stuck with plenty of gas but no way of running the boiler. I'm thinking of a vehicle to load adapter for the EV so I can run power to the central heating from the EV if we had a similar power cut again

Our last house I had the kitchen and utility run on a separate electric circuit.
The boiler was in the utility and the cooker was a range with gas hobs.

I installed a switch over switch next to the consumer unit.
This allows you to plug in a genie when you “throw” the switch.

Think I covered most bases

 

[mikash]

BUT, when temperatures rarely get down below 3c approx the gas heating kicks in because efficiency of the heat pump is poor.

Here in Finland a pump with poor efficiency at 0c would be sold with a label "for cooling use only"
I have one of those, since the house has district heating, just for the occasional summer heat wave.
Most of the modern air heat pumps sold here for heating purposes are good to -20c, the best ones down to -30c. By good, I mean COPD of at least 2 so twice as efficient as straight electric heating. People are also warned not to order their pumps outside of Scandinavia if they don't know what they're doing, because the chances are their "bargain buy" won't be doing much in freezing temps, even if it's a quality unit by a respectable brand.

 

[The Wino]

Here in Finland a pump with poor efficiency at 0c would be sold with a label "for cooling use only"
I have one of those, since the house has district heating, just for the occasional summer heat wave.
Most of the modern air heat pumps sold here for heating purposes are good to -20c, the best ones down to -30c. By good, I mean COPD of at least 2 so twice as efficient as straight electric heating. People are also warned not to order their pumps outside of Scandinavia if they don't know what they're doing, because the chances are their "bargain buy" won't be doing much in freezing temps, even if it's a quality unit by a respectable brand.

Interesting to hear from someone living in a cold climate on what the situation really is. Are EVs catching on there like in Norway?

 

[Silver-Fox]

Here in Finland a pump with poor efficiency at 0c would be sold with a label "for cooling use only"
I have one of those, since the house has district heating, just for the occasional summer heat wave.
Most of the modern air heat pumps sold here for heating purposes are good to -20c, the best ones down to -30c. By good, I mean COPD of at least 2 so twice as efficient as straight electric heating. People are also warned not to order their pumps outside of Scandinavia if they don't know what they're doing, because the chances are their "bargain buy" won't be doing much in freezing temps, even if it's a quality unit by a respectable brand.

That’s interesting, so why arnt these being pushed in other milder climates has to be the question

 

[mikash]

Interesting to hear from someone living in a cold climate on what the situation really is. Are EVs catching on there like in Norway?

They are catching, but at a lot slower pace than in Norway. Probably has something to do with the fact that we don't have that much (or any) oil money to shovel around to incentivize people. Finland also has relatively aged vehicle base with quite a slow turnover so with a bit of napkin math even if every car sold in Finland from this day on would be an EV, it'd still take a good 25-30 years to replace all ICEs on the road. I think the climate is also a bit more harsh during winters compared to much of Norway with some coastal warmth, so that slows things a bit too.

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[Brains]

Micro bore was installed in our house probably more than 20 years ago, possibly longer.

I’ve been ripping it out as we are renovating the house.
I was really surprised how clean the system was.
Very little iron showing in the radiators as well.

My only disappointment was how little I got for the copper at the scrapers

We have done a few house renovations, my experience is that microbore was installed with the first central heating systems installed in older houses, which for many was in the early 70's.
As it was easier and less disruptive to lay.

Borderline useless though to actually run a modern central heating system though!

(The grants in the 1970's, which were mainly there to get rid of the coal fires and install indoor loos and bathrooms only covered about half the cost. By 1980 they had more of less stopped providing any grants at all)

When doing renovations we always ripped it all out and replaced everything.
I've not heard of a microbore heating system being installed from scratch this century.

 

[The Wino]

We have done a few house renovations, my experience is that microbore was installed with the first central heating systems installed in older houses, which for many was in the early 70's.
As it was easier and less disruptive to lay.

Borderline useless though to actually run a modern central heating system though!

(The grants in the 1970's, which were mainly there to get rid of the coal fires and install indoor loos and bathrooms only covered about half the cost. By 1980 they had more of less stopped providing any grants at all)

When doing renovations we always ripped it all out and replaced everything.
I've not heard of a microbore heating system being installed from scratch this century.

Our friend on the estate with microbore was horrified at a quote to replace the whole system so got in a plumber who reckoned they could sort it with flushing out. They managed to get most rads working then the boiler died ( I suspect because of sediment being loosened and blocked the heat exchanger) so they had a new boiler still on the microbore system. I think it's just putting off the inevitable.

 

[Silver-Fox]

When doing renovations we always ripped it all out and replaced everything.
I've not heard of a microbore heating system being installed from scratch this century.

I’m not saying there are many if any micro bore systems installed now.

I was just trying to say how clean ours was

Also our present system was reasonably efficient as well

 

[Silver-Fox]

They managed to get most rads working then the boiler died ( I suspect because of sediment being loosened and blocked the heat exchanger) so they had a new boiler still on the microbore system. I think it's just putting off the inevitable.

Possibly also caused by a lack of maintenance in previous years.
As with most things you need to “look after” them.

 

[Brains]

Our friend on the estate with microbore was horrified at a quote to replace the whole system so got in a plumber who reckoned they could sort it with flushing out. They managed to get most rads working then the boiler died ( I suspect because of sediment being loosened and blocked the heat exchanger) so they had a new boiler still on the microbore system. I think it's just putting off the inevitable.

The plumber was correct, a flush through can give it a few more years of life.
But in the long term, it is just putting off the inevitable.

If he is only intending on staying there a few years, then "don't fix what ain't broke".

But if the intention is to remain for decades, or stay until old age, then it's a case of 'when' not 'if' it needs to be replaced, which aside from the plumbers quote, which involves ripping up floors and chasing through plaster, so it will not include total redecoration and new carpets throughout.

We always found it cheaper in the long run, to empty the entire house out, rip up the floors and replace all plumbing, all electrics, a new bathroom and a new kitchen, then replastering, total redecoration and new floor coverings.

For a 2-3 bed house it's the wrong side of £30k and possibly closer to £60k.

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[Happy Jack]

What if you have a power cut?

Heat pump and central heating both dead as dodos during power cuts, but luckily as rare as hens teeth.
Multi-fuel stove keeps us warm.

 

[enark]

Heat pump and central heating both dead as dodos during power cuts, but luckily as rare as hens teeth.
Multi-fuel stove keeps us warm.

Lucky you, our semi rural property suffers regular power cuts especially in winter.

 

[Happy Jack]

With gas heating, you generally have the radiators being heated for a few hours. And then rely on the heat in the system to keep the house warm.

With heat pumps, you've got to get used to the system running many hours per day. It's counter intuitive, but that's how to run them most efficiently.

Because the radiators aren't as hot, you don't have the option to rapidly warm the house. So you generally you set the thermostat timer at a comfortable temperature for the day and an overnight temperature a couple of degrees lower, and that's it. No quick blasts and being off in-between.

Exactly what we do, heat pump switched on at 0630 well before we get up and left on until we "retire" to the sitting room after tea which is where our multi-fuel stove is.

 

[The Wino]

Lucky you, our semi rural property suffers regular power cuts especially in winter.

Our last significant one was in 1991 just before our son was born!

 

[Molly A]

You mean like everybody tells their insurance company they have installed a diesel heater (with no prior experience), or a gas boiler, or I bet they don't even have the correct tyres on their van so when they have an accident, insurance won't pay out because they didn't read their terms and conditions I wonder how many people have gas in their van (cookers, boilers, heaters etc) WITHOUT a carbon monoxide alarm. But yeah, I'm the problem with an installed chimney which they they know about - they asked for photos of the installation AND the pipe coming out the roof. They said make sure to have a carbon monoxide and smoke alarm installed... I'm covered.

Some insurers wont cover a change of suspension, non standard paintwork, a change in alloy wheels or any engine replacement! I've taken an empty aluminium box van and put a home in it, I made sure I was covered.

Calm down, I was responding to another comment. Frankly, I don't give a toss about how you wish to modify your van. In the interests of clarity, I admire your woodburner, and showed it to my partner as a nice cosy feature. Would agree it is a bit too close to your soft furnishings, but it is your van, you live in it, your choice!
I am perfectly aware of the issues of mods, used to be head of Renewals for a very large insurance company, so my comment was tongue in cheek as I remember the day when alloys and custom stripes and paint were considered beyond the pale.

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[enark]

Our last significant one was in 1991 just before our son was born!

Saturday.

Four hours whilst engineers checked all the poles in nearby fields

 

[Brains]

Lucky you, our semi rural property suffers regular power cuts especially in winter.

My parents lived in North Cornwall from the late 1960's to the early 2020's.
I don't think there was a single winter without a multi hour powercut.

Sometimes winters were worse than others, with power cuts every week or two.
Sometimes only for a few hours, other times for days at a time.
The longest I remember without power was 10 days.

Until the 1990's they lived in a small hamlet, but after that they were in a decent sized village.
Still had the same number of power cuts, it was just they tended to restore the village faster than the outlying hamlets and farms.

They always had a oil AGA and at least two log burners. (And lots of candles and a couple of brass oil lamps)

 

[Happy Jack]

That’s not really selling having a heat pump.

You are saying if you only have a heat pump and if you don’t have solar it’s going to cost a fortune to run.

No I'm not !
I'm saying our heat pump works well in most temperature conditions.
We run it constantly in daylight hours, not expensive to run,
probably same as gas in normal temperatures.
The limitation is that it's efficiency is poor at below 3°c.
Although we have solar and it certainly helps it would not cost a fortune to run without solar.
I know from experience when during most of the winter we often get no solar gain.

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

Weird, I'm sure this started off as a woodburner chat .....

 

[Just smiffy]

14 years I’ve lived in my 3 bedroom house, all electric and Mitsubishi heat pump only broke down once with the outside fan, keeps the whole house toasty warm all day and night and the fabrics of the house is warm, meaning when you touch any part of the house, doors toilet seat etc… it’s been the best and cheapest heating option I’ve ever known and wouldn’t do without it…

The most a monthly bill has been is £108 last January and that’s all electricity for the whole house cooking and everything…

Not there this winter but still costing me £20 a month in standing charge…

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