Wood burning stoves

[PixelNomad]

It’s a lovely idea in theory but then you have the chore of maintenance, cleaning it out, getting and storing fuel, the dust/emissions in your van which is in the news lately.

Wouldn’t you sooner just press a button like us on the Alde, sit back and relax without any of those worries?

No. (See photo!) What maintenance? Cleaning out the ash pan every few days, i tidy the van and clean every day anyway, so an additional 3 minutes emptying the ash pan isn't an issue. I get the fuel when I go to the shops or when I am on a walk, so no added time taken up. Storing fuel, it is stored under the burner anyway and in the lockers under the van. No more space than a hosepipe. The only time I get a little dust in the van is when I clean it twice a year, I saw no increase in dust when I installed it. Seeing the amount of "HeLp mE, my heater stopped working" doesn't make me want to use the diesel heater anymore. Everybody has their thing, and I just love the look of the burner on in the evening with the fire crackling and the flame lighting the van, it's just cosy.

 

[raysalaugh]

i dont use smoke alarms i am old skool .i got a canary and a parrot.......the parrot will let me know when the canary snuffs it

Here's an idea for a Christmas present for your parrot or even your canary.

 

[Brains]

There is a book, that every person that aspires, or actually owns, a Log Burning stove should read.
It's called 'Norwegian Wood' by Lars Mytting
(Not to be confused with the more famous book of the same name by a Japanese author)

It tells you, in a very nice little collection of stories all you need to know about stoves and the fuel, how to store it, how to chop it etc.

Having spend quite some time in Norway, it's something every Norwegian knows from childhood, which is why most houses in Norway have a log burner as the primary heat source, and because everyone knows how to store wood, they have some of the cleanest air in Europe.

Anyone wondering what to ask for Xmas pressie, there is an answer!

 

[Simonjdcooper]

Oh no they dont, in smoke control areas which in the UK is all towns and cities you can only use SE stoves which have a air intake which can be closed but also one which cannot be fully closed.

Not quite true, a number of towns and cities, particularly in the North are covered by Smoke Control Areas. Best to look it up on https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/data/sca/ as you can see below there are huge
areas where there are no restrictions, including quite a few towns and parts of cities.

 

[Northernraider]

All is not cool, you are breaking regulations; don't know what the worst is that "they" can do but it's more than "Your a nuisance". And you are still ignoring the fact that your stove is too near combustible surfaces.
However, no one bothers these days so guess you can get on with it; just like vanners who are OK with travelling overweight; and people going off on their travels in Europe without proper insurance......crowd funding will sort it after all.

Jeeso you really need to change your name .

Cause happy you ain't.

Give the guy a break.

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[Northernraider]

Have another look at all the replies and you will see a number of people have raised concerns!

But most have been supportive . Have a look at your own comments and how much likes they've got .....0

Read the room and give the op a break , you've expressed your opinion once that's enough ,he's read it ,we've all read it ,repeating it isn't going to make him remove it.

Personally with the amount of polluting done by most house dwellers never mind big business I can guarantee you that no fulltime vanlifer ever comes close.

 

[Northernraider]

It’s a lovely idea in theory but then you have the chore of maintenance, cleaning it out, getting and storing fuel, the dust/emissions in your van which is in the news lately.

Wouldn’t you sooner just press a button like us on the Alde, sit back and relax without any of those worries?

I'd still love a Woodburner over the alde , it's the one thing I really really wanted in a self build.

 

[Brains]

As an FYI on the pollution levels:

Our Scout hut, which is inside the London M25, with a large wood burning stove, is fueled mostly by dead wood picked up by around 50 Scouts one day a year from the local woods.
(Done as part of the local wood conservation project with the woodland's rangers)

It's then chain sawed into rounds by either the Leaders or the Rangers, and then logged by the older Scouts.
(All part of the Knife & Axe programme)
The wood is then dried for two years before being burnt.

It means the ton/miles on the fuel is zero, as the distance between tree and stove is walked.

It also means then because the wood is properly logged, dried and stored, once the fire on the burner is upto working temperature there is almost no smoke.

A few years ago the local church (next door) complained that the Scouts were polluting the atmosphere burning the logs.

We asked the church for the details of their gas boiler.

We then agreed there was a problem with pollution.
No need to guess which party was producing many times the amount of pollution of the other.

We even made a tongue in cheek offer to help them convert the church to running the heating on a log burner!

Oddly the Church have been silent on the issue ever since.

 

[Coolcats]

All is not cool, you are breaking regulations; don't know what the worst is that "they" can do but it's more than "Your a nuisance". And you are still ignoring the fact that your stove is too near combustible surfaces.
However, no one bothers these days so guess you can get on with it; just like vanners who are OK with travelling overweight; and people going off on their travels in Europe without proper insurance......crowd funding will sort it after all.

Hopefully it would never happen but would an insurance company pay out if the worst happened and a) they were not aware of the modification b) as you say it is near other combustible material.

 

[Happy Jack]

I’m not ignoring it. You’re right, but I wanted a stove, it was my decision. When I spoke to the company they told me not to, but I wanted the burner in my van and it couldn’t go anywhere else Don’t worry, if my van is on fire I will be sure to give you a special shout out I’ve had it fitted for 12 months and the ONLY person who has an issue is (other than the stove company) you you’ve got it! I will get on with it. I’m not overweight, I’m actually 742kg under (how amazing!). Im not a driving hazard in a sense of I have underrated brakes etc - my vehicles is serviced and legal on the road. I have insurance, I have standard insurance, tool insurance and contents insurance. Both companies are well aware of the stove neither had an issue. Just had to search up crowd funding for vanlife that just shows how much attention I pay to others lives? I don’t have social media so that’d be a non starter also! But I guess you’re right, if others want to give other people money based off a bad circumstance then surely that’s their choice, after all it is their money and their lookout.

But most have been supportive . Have a look at your own comments and how much likes they've got .....0

Read the room and give the op a break , you've expressed your opinion once that's enough ,he's read it ,we've all read it ,repeating it isn't going to make him remove it.

Personally with the amount of polluting done by most house dwellers never mind big business I can guarantee you that no fulltime vanlifer ever comes close.

Have learned a valuable lesson.
Some of my extra comments were based on other people's concerns/criticisms and some from the OP's own admission that he'd gone ahead with it even though the supplier told him not to.

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[Guigsy]

As an FYI on the pollution levels:

Our Scout hut, which is inside the London M25, with a large wood burning stove, is fueled mostly by dead wood picked up by around 50 Scouts one day a year from the local woods.
(Done as part of the local wood conservation project with the woodland's rangers)

It's then chain sawed into rounds by either the Leaders or the Rangers, and then logged by the older Scouts.
(All part of the Knife & Axe programme)
The wood is then dried for two years before being burnt.

It means the ton/miles on the fuel is zero, as the distance between tree and stove is walked.

It also means then because the wood is properly logged, dried and stored, once the fire on the burner is upto working temperature there is almost no smoke.

A few years ago the local church (next door) complained that the Scouts were polluting the atmosphere burning the logs.

We asked the church for the details of their gas boiler.

We then agreed there was a problem with pollution.
No need to guess which party was producing many times the amount of pollution of the other.

We even made a tongue in cheek offer to help them convert the church to running the heating on a log burner!

Oddly the Church have been silent on the issue ever since.

So it's good for sustainability and climate change.

But bad for local air quality due to polluting particulates.

Climate change and air quality are two different things.

 

[Happy Jack]

Have learned a valuable lesson.
Some of my extra comments were based on other people's concerns/criticisms and some from the OP's own admission that he'd gone ahead with it even though the supplier told him not to.

Pixie, my apologies.
Perhaps I was too crutical.

 

[PixelNomad]

Pixie, my apologies.
Perhaps I was too crutical.

I just want to live with my cat, my wood burner and a bloody good horror film. Everybody has an opinion on how others do things so it's cool Anyhow, I am off for a wander (into the great outdoors) to get some wood and maybe i'll pop to Lidl at the same time...fancy a hot chocolate and maybe a tasty cupcake that'll I will cook on my wood burner too. Who knows, the possibilities are endless for this evenings meal, as long as it's quick and tasty and my cat will eat it too, wont be giving him the hot chocolate as that would upset his tummy, i'm not completely stupid. Have a wonderful evening you happy man.

Very warm regards,
Pixel Nomad

 

[Happy Jack]

I just want to live with my cat, my wood burner and a bloody good horror film. Everybody has an opinion on how others do things so it's cool Anyhow, I am off for a wander (into the great outdoors) to get some wood and maybe i'll pop to Lidl at the same time...fancy a hot chocolate and maybe a tasty cupcake that'll I will cook on my wood burner too. Who knows, the possibilities are endless for this evenings meal, as long as it's quick and tasty and my cat will eat it too, wont be giving him the hot chocolate as that would upset his tummy, i'm not completely stupid. Have a wonderful evening you happy man.

Very warm regards,
Pixel Nomad

Am happy with all cat lovers.

 

[ROADRUNNER700]

We were at the Quirky Campers festival a few years ago and there were stove stacks poking out the roof of every other van. I saw one with the stove in the passenger seat... Last year, there were almost none. I think Chinese diesel heaters are the current flavour for #vanlife'ers.

hi guigsy yes did the same fitted diesel heater last oct 2023 was 5kw £55.00 lot to hot so 31/oct/2024 i change it to 2kw diesel heater up grade one blue lcd screen 2024 model with an ultrquite diesel pump can just hear it not loud ticking as the std one its just right not over powering with heat my last wood/coal burner had it 8 years the flue pipe whent out n/s/back door 5ins a both tin roof around 2 yrs ago had to do welding replate it all round because steel going bit thin plated with 3mm steel i only take it out because 20kg coal smokeless coal was £30.00 for 2 kg bags so fitted diesel heater off ebay £97.00 now not washing my hands every 20 mins and when been fishing for 3 hours camper van nice and warm with diesel heater there come down in price now carry on camping

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[Dutch 68]

I'd still love a Woodburner over the alde , it's the one thing I really really wanted in a self build.

Nothing is stopping you to put one in nibby Tam

 

[rambo]

makes me giggle we all driving round in big chunks of plastic /fiberglass/rubber ect with fuel burning engines,the process and environment of how a lot of these materials are made is filthy .a mh dose not get recycled when its done ......that dont matter coz that bloke burning a couple of lollipop sticks is motorhome funs most wanted and i bet he gets a mention at next years climate summit.....................lol

 

[Guigsy]

makes me giggle we all driving round in big chunks of plastic /fiberglass/rubber ect with fuel burning engines,the process and environment of how a lot of these materials are made is filthy .a mh dose not get recycled when its done ......that dont matter coz that bloke burning a couple of lollipop sticks is motorhome funs most wanted and i bet he gets a mention at next years climate summit.....................lol

A wood stove is worse for air pollution than a diesel engine.

What’s more harmful: a diesel truck or a wood burning stove? - Transport Exchange Group

Question to all freight exchange platform members: Which of these is responsible for emitting more harmful particulates into the atmosphere – your diesel-powered truck or a wood burning stove? You could be forgiven for choosing the HGV sitting outside the depot, even more so when you consider...

transportexchangegroup.com

 

[Just smiffy]

Moral high ground in abundance on this thread…

I on the other hand have the correct stickers for my van…
I never ever go over the speed limit…
I never look at my phone or adjust the sat-nav
And I never lie….

But my Tourette’s is getting fecking worse….

 

[enark]

I guess if Ed gets his way, ypur Alde and Trumas will all be for the scrap heap, and a nice big air source will be fixed to the rear of our MHs?

Then we will all be fitting wood burners too…..bit like modern houses eh?

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[Brains]

A wood stove is worse for air pollution than a diesel engine.

What’s more harmful: a diesel truck or a wood burning stove? - Transport Exchange Group

Question to all freight exchange platform members: Which of these is responsible for emitting more harmful particulates into the atmosphere – your diesel-powered truck or a wood burning stove? You could be forgiven for choosing the HGV sitting outside the depot, even more so when you consider...

transportexchangegroup.com

As per an earlier message above.

You are comparing apples with oranges, they are both fruit,
but one is completely consumable, leaving an easily biodegradable core,
the other one leaves a lot of peel which takes months, or even years to biodegrade, and it has to be shipped thousands of miles of the customer.

Pollution caused by particulates produced by the burning of biodegradables
and
Pollution caused by nitrogen oxides produced by burning fossil fuels
(plus the added unburnt hydrocarbons and the carbon monoxide by products)

Plus of course fossil fuels have to be shipped thousands of miles to the consumer

Therefore it is false to claim an HGV creates less pollution than a wood burning stove.
A wood burning stove will create more PM2 (soot particulates) than a diesel engine, but when all other levels of pollution are measured (O2, NoX, PM1's, etc) plus of course the massive difference in shipping distance and then refining, the diesel engine pollutes many many time more.

Plus the bottom line
Burning fossil fuels is the main contributor to global warming.
Burning biodegradable fuels does not contribute to global warming.

Of course the fossil fuel industry (who pay massive taxes to all major governments) do not want Log Burners to become popular, as logs are very difficult to tax., And every log burnt is a small percentage less heating needed for that house.

Imagine the horror if every house in the UK got proper insulation and a log burner!
The government would lose millions every day!
Power companies would be forced to reduce shareholder dividends!

Every house in Norway is properly insulated, and most have a log burner.
They burn properly dried wood
There is no smog in Oslo, nor is there a problem with PM2's

I wonder who paid for HGV vs Log Stove "study" ?

 

[Guigsy]

As per an earlier message above.

You are comparing apples with oranges, they are both fruit,
but one is completely consumable, leaving an easily biodegradable core,
the other one leaves a lot of peel which takes months, or even years to biodegrade, and it has to be shipped thousands of miles of the customer.

Pollution caused by particulates produced by the burning of biodegradables
and
Pollution caused by nitrogen oxides produced by burning fossil fuels
(plus the added unburnt hydrocarbons and the carbon monoxide by products)

Plus of course fossil fuels have to be shipped thousands of miles to the consumer

Therefore it is false to claim an HGV creates less pollution than a wood burning stove.
A wood burning stove will create more PM2 (soot particulates) than a diesel engine, but when all other levels of pollution are measured (O2, NoX, PM1's, etc) plus of course the massive difference in shipping distance and then refining, the diesel engine pollutes many many time more.

Plus the bottom line
Burning fossil fuels is the main contributor to global warming.
Burning biodegradable fuels does not contribute to global warming.

Of course the fossil fuel industry (who pay massive taxes to all major governments) do not want Log Burners to become popular, as logs are very difficult to tax., And every log burnt is a small percentage less heating needed for that house.

Imagine the horror if every house in the UK got proper insulation and a log burner!
The government would lose millions every day!
Power companies would be forced to reduce shareholder dividends!

Every house in Norway is properly insulated, and most have a log burner.
They burn properly dried wood
There is no smog in Oslo, nor is there a problem with PM2's

I wonder who paid for HGV vs Log Stove "study" ?

Why are particulates from a diesel engine worse than a stove? They've both burning dead organic matter.

Good wood stoves may not produce a lot of soot, but they still release a load of fine particulates. Even PM10 is way smaller than you'd be able to optically perceive. And wood isn't refined organic carbon chains like diesel, it contains all the other stuff that the plant contained too. So you get a soup of interesting volatiles... which is what gives it that distinctive smell.

 

[enark]

Burning wood is 300% efficient…..

Well it is if you source, cut, store carry and split yourself…

Warms you a few times before you burn it…

 

[PixelNomad]

A wood stove is worse for air pollution than a diesel engine.

What’s more harmful: a diesel truck or a wood burning stove? - Transport Exchange Group

Question to all freight exchange platform members: Which of these is responsible for emitting more harmful particulates into the atmosphere – your diesel-powered truck or a wood burning stove? You could be forgiven for choosing the HGV sitting outside the depot, even more so when you consider...

transportexchangegroup.com

yuuuuup. Burning a stove can be carbon neutral, whereas the fuel in MotoGP most definitely isn't.

Cut a tree, plant a tree. Fossil fuels - not so. Pretty sure using diesel to drive to Bremen is draining the Earth far quicker than me..
Are you happy with wind turbines? What about the building of solar panels? Electric cars? Heating our homes with electric or gas boilers? Power industries or manufacturing? The link you have provided doesn't actually give stoves a fair chance... I definitely do not have my stove on in the summer, however I am still driving my van in the summer. Vans are driven (on average) 9 hours a day, 365 days a year, stoves (on average) are on 4.5 hours a day, for 100-150 days a year..

What about the two holidays a year, on a plane - roughly 7 hours each flight. So 28 hours flying? This uses far more PM2.5 emissions per hour compared to BOTH stoves and vehicles, even though the annual use is far less. Averaging out planes, stoves and vehicles, stoves come in far less. Don't even get me started on the ferry trips to be able to get your van over to Europe. So I think 3 months travelling - including a boat trip and fuel usage. People using a stove is way less impactful than you travelling wherever for X months of the year. Stoves CAN emit more PM2.5 per hour, however they're not used all day, driving for 11 hours a day for HGV's uses far more than my stove would

Anyhow, using a stove for a few months of the year over driving around for 250+ hours a year is far less draining and damaging on the earth. Oh also, most particulates kind of just float until something in the atmosphere changes. The exhaust from your cars? Body height. The exhaust from chimneys - atleast 5 meters above - maybe even more. I'm breathing your diesel fumes in... but not my stove. My stove does more than one thing - ike it is designed to do. HGV's on the other hand are designed to do one thing - drive. If you add up what a stove does per year it FAR outweighs what a HGV does...

Anyway, you enjoy your trips to see MotoGP and I will enjoy stove, heating my home, heating my food and drying my clothes. Have a good one!

 

[Guigsy]

yuuuuup. Burning a stove can be carbon neutral, whereas the fuel in MotoGP most definitely isn't.

Cut a tree, plant a tree. Fossil fuels - not so. Pretty sure using diesel to drive to Bremen is draining the Earth far quicker than me..
Are you happy with wind turbines? What about the building of solar panels? Electric cars? Heating our homes with electric or gas boilers? Power industries or manufacturing? The link you have provided doesn't actually give stoves a fair chance... I definitely do not have my stove on in the summer, however I am still driving my van in the summer. Vans are driven (on average) 9 hours a day, 365 days a year, stoves (on average) are on 4.5 hours a day, for 100-150 days a year..

What about the two holidays a year, on a plane - roughly 7 hours each flight. So 28 hours flying? This uses far more PM2.5 emissions per hour compared to BOTH stoves and vehicles, even though the annual use is far less. Averaging out planes, stoves and vehicles, stoves come in far less. Don't even get me started on the ferry trips to be able to get your van over to Europe. So I think 3 months travelling - including a boat trip and fuel usage. People using a stove is way less impactful than you travelling wherever for X months of the year. Stoves CAN emit more PM2.5 per hour, however they're not used all day, driving for 11 hours a day for HGV's uses far more than my stove would

Anyhow, using a stove for a few months of the year over driving around for 250+ hours a year is far less draining and damaging on the earth. Oh also, most particulates kind of just float until something in the atmosphere changes. The exhaust from your cars? Body height. The exhaust from chimneys - atleast 5 meters above - maybe even more. I'm breathing your diesel fumes in... but not my stove. My stove does more than one thing - ike it is designed to do. HGV's on the other hand are designed to do one thing - drive. If you add up what a stove does per year it FAR outweighs what a HGV does...

Anyway, you enjoy your trips to see MotoGP and I will enjoy stove, heating my home, heating my food and drying my clothes. Have a good one!

Again... Air pollution not same as climate change.

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[enark]

Again... Air pollution not same as climate change.

Sure air pollution is really a thing these days? Except in some city centres (talking UK).

And dont think a MH with a wood burning stove will be in a city centre anyway.

Mad people suggest that farmers should use electric tractors - utter drivel, a bit of nox in a 100 acre field

 

[Brains]

Again... Air pollution not same as climate change.

Agreed.

But to claim a wood burning stove, burning locally grown fuel, pollutes more than a diesel HGV is not correct.

As not only is the crude oil shipped half way across the planet, the fuel is then refined, then shipped across the country, before then being burnt in the HGV.

All that is before you factor in the manufacture of the oil well, the ship, the refinery, the fleet of lorries that moved the fuel and the actual HGV itself.

Vs

The stove made of iron/steel and a chimney made of local bricks and an axe.


Obviously if you want to be biased, then you just do a comparison of the number/size of the particles from the chimney/exhaust, but that is not telling even a quarter of the story.
The only people that have an interest in telling a story like that are those who profit from fossil fuels.
(or the ill informed)

 

[CazPaul]

Regardless of the stove debate the OP lives in his van so his total carbon footprint Will much much lower than anyone living in a house.

 

[The Wino]

Agreed.

But to claim a wood burning stove, burning locally grown fuel, pollutes more than a diesel HGV is not correct.

As not only is the crude oil shipped half way across the planet, the fuel is then refined, then shipped across the country, before then being burnt in the HGV.

All that is before you factor in the manufacture of the oil well, the ship, the refinery, the fleet of lorries that moved the fuel and the actual HGV itself.

Vs

The stove made of iron/steel and a chimney made of local bricks and an axe.


Obviously if you want to be biased, then you just do a comparison of the number/size of the particles from the chimney/exhaust, but that is not telling even a quarter of the story.
The only people that have an interest in telling a story like that are those who profit from fossil fuels.
(or the ill informed)

It does depend to a large extent on the numbers involved. If everyone started switching to woodbrners as their main heat source city centres would very quickly become very unpleasant places for anyone with respiratory illnesses. In the context of motorhome heating off grid I suspect the least polluting heat source is gas. In houses electric if generated from renewables.
I don't think the number of off grid woodburner heaters is likely to make any difference largely due to low numbers than because they are environmentally friendly.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I mentioned earlier that I have no smoke coming from my chimney (only on light up, which is normal),

I’m sure I read somewhere there is no control over kindling and smoke coming from it.

If this is the case you could burn kindling all day long and not have a problem.
This goes for house based log burners as well.

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