Volkswagen has ‘a year, maybe two to turn around’, financial chief warns

[Steve and Denise]

Have 3Volkswagens in the family and my Audi soon to be swapped for a new BMW all good cars with good resale value, would like to see how 3-4-5 year old Chinese cars goes on resale value

I would expect a lot less but they do cost a lot less like you we have had some very high end cars but I think we have got to an age now where the badge is just that apart from maybe one or two

 

[starquake]

Have 3Volkswagens in the family and my Audi soon to be swapped for a new BMW all good cars with good resale value, would like to see how 3-4-5 year old Chinese cars goes on resale value

Arguably they lose all their money in first 3 years. So optimal time to buy. MG's are £28-30k new, 11k at 3 years. If you do the average mileage (that people in UK drive), the next 5 years of driving the MG, the car costs less than the petrol (used in an equivalent ice) over 5 years.

There is another Chinese brand that was even cheaper (doing pickups) but they seem to have exited UK market, where MG are getting a sinigicant percentage of sales so unlikely to leave (MG sell one of the most popular EV's in UK (top 10)).
However I would not personally buy one new.

 

[starquake]

I would expect a lot less but they do cost a lot less like you we have had some very high end cars but I think we have got to an age now where the badge is just that apart from maybe one or two

The South Korean cars are like Japanese cars years ago ... I can personally reccomend them -> far better build quality than some european cars we have had before (Mercedes).

 

[Steve and Denise]

Arguably they lose all their money in first 3 years. So optimal time to buy. MG's are £28-30k new, 11k at 3 years. If you do the average mileage (that people in UK drive), the next 5 years of driving the MG, the car costs less than the petrol (used in an equivalent ice) over 5 years.

There is another Chinese brand that was even cheaper (doing pickups) but they seem to have exited UK market, where MG are getting a sinigicant percentage of sales so unlikely to leave (MG sell one of the most popular EV's in UK (top 10)).
However I would not personally buy one new.

I’m talking ice only

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

I would expect a lot less but they do cost a lot less like you we have had some very high end cars but I think we have got to an age now where the badge is just that apart from maybe one or two

Unfortunately as hard as I try I do like my cars, would be to embarrassed to say how much I have lost on cars/boats/bikes over the yearsbut I don’t care as I’m only going to die once so might as well enjoy it while I can

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[starquake]

I’m talking ice only

WHen you check their ice cars, teh same depreciation applies. (arguably slightly worse on the Hybrid/Petrol models, as those seemed to be going 10-11K, the BEV hold value longer).

 

[starquake]

Unfortunately as hard as I try I do like my cars, would be to embarrassed to say how much I have lost on cars/boats/bikes over the yearsbut I don’t care as I’m only going to die once so might as well enjoy it while I can

Boats = Bring our another Thousand isn't it. We nearly got a money pit of one, but good moorings around here are hard to get with waiting lists, so we pulled out of the purchase as driving 2 hours to get on a yacht is less appealling.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

The South Korean cars are like Japanese cars years ago ... I can personally reccomend them -> far better build quality than some european cars we have had before (Mercedes).

Have had a few large Korean excavators over the years and they were very reliable, early ones in the 90s when they first came in were a bit of an iffy finish/build but the last ones I bought 12 years ago were better than anything British builtnot near Japanese Hitachi excavators yet though

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Boats = Bring our another Thousand

Cousin has just bought a new £2.5m one and it’s mored out in the Med at £75k a year

 

[starquake]

Cousin has just bought a new £2.5m one and it’s mored out in the Med at £75k a year

Yeah, hate to think of maintaince costs on that, it's what usually 10% of purchase price a year. So likely what 250k + 75k in mooring just to run. Theres a resaon we got a motorhome instead of a boat.

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[Garfields]

Apparently a big issue kicking off with BMW and a brake component recall.
Dealers are not being allowed to releases stock supposedly
Not got info other than acquaintance ranting about not getting his new car that is at dealer

 

[Coolcats]

Unfortunately as hard as I try I do like my cars, would be to embarrassed to say how much I have lost on cars/boats/bikes over the yearsbut I don’t care as I’m only going to die once so might as well enjoy it while I can

People forget He who Dies with most toys wins ( I all ways tell my wife this)

 

[Coolcats]

All the European and Japanese brands got caught with their pants down by electric. Tesla led the charge. But the Koreans saw what was happening. The old guard of brands have lost their cache. People are willing to buy Chinese.

BMW seem to be pulling themselves back to the premium fast exec level. Stelantis brands are finally bringing down their prices. But VW-Audi Group are still trying to flog over priced cars that don't compete. Japanese brands are also still floundering. Toyota is only afloat because they've doubled down on the short term hybrid market. They've got little long term products.

Reading various news I think it’s more complex, but the point you make regards the Chinese is valid particularly when you think about what brands they own the Chinese do want to own a chunk of the market.

VW issue is also to cut costs to be competitive with other manufacturing bases https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/why-are-ev-sales-slowing

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

People forget He who Dies with most toys wins ( I all ways tell my wife this)

Unfortunately a lot of people think it’s he who dies with the most money in the bank and forget to have a life

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

Not to mention all the other VW brands: Seat, Audi, Skoda, Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, Ducati, Porsche, Scania, MAN, and Volkswagen commercial vehicles.

Do they not have plans to enter F1 under the Audi brand?

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[Coolcats]

VW slams production into reverse as industry faces battles on all sides

VW slams production into reverse as industry faces battles on all sides

Plan to cut German factories is politically fraught but makes sense economically given Chinese competition, falling demand and CO2 rules

www.theguardian.com

 

[Coolcats]

It’s also easier for Tesla as I believe they are non unionised but also being a newer company employees won’t have invested so much if thier life into the factory.

esla among electric carmakers forced to cut prices as market stalls

Tesla among electric carmakers forced to cut prices as market stalls

EV sales have plateaued across the world but the newfound glut of vehicles may just be temporary

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mzracer]

More bad EV news here.

MSN

 

[Coolcats]

I wonder whether this will also impact the Skoda brand

I think all manufacturers are hit by this slump its not unique o VW but clearly being a popular high value brand its talked about more

 

[Coolcats]

Unfortunately a lot of people think it’s he who dies with the most money in the bank and forget to have a life

Oooops...I can remember a time when young do I put carpets in the bedrooms or go skiing in Canada...Canada won.

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[SpeedyDux]

The reality is EV ownership is you ALWAYS have 100% (or 80% if you prefer to leave just over 2/3 charged as many of us do). It's always plugged in if at home given (on most tariffs) it's a flat 7p to charge ANYTIME.

With Agile tariffs there is an advantage to not charging, and since moving back to Agile we've altered to leaving 100 miles min in the car, and plugging in when lower.

^ is assuming home charging, but even when we away in the car for a week or more, we're usually first thing on arrival either plugging into a type 2 socket at a family members house (most have EV's already) ... OR a normal plug if not. We have a 10m extension along with the 5m charge cable for granny charging always in car, mad to not plug in when possible and offer friends/family their costs.

You haven't been watching the TV ads for the Dacia Spring.

The ads give the impression that one charge is enough for the entire week. It assumes that the owner will only be doing local journeys and doesn't care if by the end of the week there is only 20% charge remaining. It relies on giving the impression that a battery is much like a fuel tank. It should appeal to those younger drivers - according to a recent survey most of them let their fuel gauge reach the red zone before refuelling. The resulting problem is that the crud at the bottom of the tank blocks the fuel filters and maybe also damages the injection system as well. Numpties.

My drive is occupied by my PVC so always being able to charge an EV parked in the road would be uncertain and not always practical. I also doubt that your 7p per KWh tariff is likely to last. Bait-and-switch comes to mind. In any case, surge pricing amounts to electricity rationing by another name. A bad trend for all of us. The future relies on removing the former obligation to provide the generating capacity to meet increasing demand. There is going to be a real problem, due to the phasing out of fossil fuel generation and its replacement by intermittent renewables. Ed Miliband wants this all done by 2030. Absurd. Delusional. Stalinist.

One way or another there is going to be electricity rationing. Maybe your EV will still be prioritised, but who really knows.

 

[starquake]

I also doubt that your 7p per KWh tariff is likely to last.

It has been 5p before that, then 7.5p during the price crisis, then 7p now. Tariff has existed since around 2018 I believe.

And thats BEFORE you look at Agile. Last month (now on Agile) was actually paid to charge the car. These are happening more often, not less.

Bait and Switch applies if there is something (like gas generation) which will increase in price. Wind has a cost-of-generation of near nil once build (owning a farm, it's about 1p a Kwh per year to operate over the year). So effectively every unit you sell above 1p a Kwh is to repay capital to build + profit. The break even is about 3-4p region, and thats WHAT WE EXPECT as owners (thats the sums in the investment proespectus, between 3 and 5p genertion )

Therefore if anything I see prices falling not rising, likely to the 4p region.

Worh noting the power in an average EV could also power your house on a average use for about 10 days. And many now support vehicle to load so could do it -> so if rationing occurs, surely you WANT an EV.

 

[DABurleigh]

We are overdue replacing our petrol car, 10 years, 100k miles, especially as we could do with something with more room in the back for grandkids and luggage.

I've done a lot of research and there's nothing out there I'm yet willing to buy, whether outright or PCP. My hope is that Tesla's Project Redland will be our answer, maybe by 2025, more likely 2026 in the UK from the Berlin factory.

Dave

 

[dunnah01]

When will domestic electricity to heat oaps houses in winter be 7p/kWh

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Oooops...I can remember a time when young do I put carpets in the bedrooms or go skiing in Canada...Canada won.

Yes I chose to have 2-3 holidays with my kids a year rather than squirrel away money like my BIL who is saving every penny for retirement, never goes out for meals won’t buy Christmas/birthday presents, doesn’t own a car only to have heart issues and struggle to work!!, 6 years before his retirement

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[gus-lopez]

here is another Chinese brand that was even cheaper (doing pickups) but they seem to have exited UK market,

DFSK ? plenty here but cars have only been around for a couple of years on sale here

where MG are getting a sinigicant percentage of sales so unlikely to leave

plenty of hire companies buy them.Mate got given one in the UK . when he went the following month he told them to ensure he had a citroen as the MG was not good

It’s also easier for Tesla as I believe they are non unionised but also being a newer company employees won’t have invested so much if thier life into the factory.

esla among electric carmakers forced to cut prices as market stalls

Tesla among electric carmakers forced to cut prices as market stalls

EV sales have plateaued across the world but the newfound glut of vehicles may just be temporary

www.theguardian.com

They are stacking them everywhere in empty shopping malls in the U:S.

Ed Miliband wants this all done by 2030. Absurd. Delusional. Stalinist.

We can hope he dies before then

Worh noting the power in an average EV could also power your house on a average use for about 10 days. And many now support vehicle to load so could do it -> so if rationing occurs, surely you WANT an EV.

I have no interest in any house but plenty of interest in the ability to drive off as & when I want.Even when there are petrol/diesel shortages I always made sure I had at least 500 litres stored at home & would not pass anywhere when working where fuel was on sale without topping up a 205litre drum in the van.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Worh noting the power in an average EV could also power your house on a average use for about 10 days. And many now support vehicle to load so could do it -> so if rationing occurs, surely you WANT an EV.

Worth noting that without EVs I would worry less about power cuts. My daily home consumption is an average 4 KWh. Even as low as 3.6 KWh.

Which basically means that someone else's EV (long range, luxury car) will need about a fortnight's equivalent of my domestic electricity just for one full recharge. You can't assume that they will only be charging at night. I anticipate that will be your "solution". If a large number of residents were charging their EVs overnight there would be a major problem. It's a numbers game.

The price per KWh is only one consideration. If a significant majority of households on the estate where I live were to have one or more EVs, you can easily envisage why the existing 1960s distribution system of underground cables and transformers as it stands can't and won't cope. It was never designed or sized for this situation. It will fail. Sometimes it already breaks down because it is so old. So, we get local power cuts. Right now, home chargers are few and far between round here, and being installed on a piecemeal basis, so the capacity problem isn't going to take effect just yet.

Your vaunted 7p per KWh doesn't include the humungous cost of the upgrade needed for the uprated distribution system at local level. That investment will have to come from somewhere else - probably paid mostly by all the ICE car owners, one way or another, through their high energy bills and daily standing charges. That just isn't fair. If the true cost of this EV revolution fell on the EV owners themselves and nobody else, you couldn't afford it, could you. It's like taxing horses so Ford's Model T cars can have a petrol pump in every street.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Well we bought a new MG HS 6 months ago every bit as good as our Mercedes for half the money, so my mind is made up, if they produce a Motorhome I would certainly take a look

That's like saying Merc's quality of late is declining. Which it may well be. I am unimpressed, after having driven a rented C Class. My Chairman once drove me to a meeting in his S Class, and a piece of the windscreen trim fell off. It's all about image.

MG is riding on the historic (British) sporting MG image. Correct me if I am wrong but the Chinese MG company doesn't even make sports cars.

 

[SpeedyDux]

WHen you check their ice cars, teh same depreciation applies. (arguably slightly worse on the Hybrid/Petrol models, as those seemed to be going 10-11K, the BEV hold value longer).

I have read predictions that the value of used ICE cars (and hybrids) is going to shoot up when the manufacturers start to ration the supply of new ones to the UK, to avoid paying those £15k fines per vehicle sold above quota. There will also be long delays. A new ICE car ordered in 2025 might not be delivered to the UK until 2027. A credible scenario.

Lack of demand from private buyers for used EVs ... let's see how that plays out.

 

[Steve and Denise]

That's like saying Merc's quality of late is declining. Which it may well be. I am unimpressed, after having driven a rented C Class. My Chairman once drove me to a meeting in his S Class, and a piece of the windscreen trim fell off. It's all about image.

MG is riding on the historic (British) sporting MG image. Correct me if I am wrong but the Chinese MG company doesn't even make sports cars.

Only one of the fastest Cybester models out now very quick but all electric so not really a car in the true sense,
Our MG is just a typical euro box that does the job well at a very keen price but if I was buying a toy it would be normally aspirated V8 which Mercedes no longer supply also my other choice is now turbocharged, but at least I’ve had the pleasure of having them

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