Volkswagen has ‘a year, maybe two to turn around’, financial chief warns (1 Viewer)

[Coolcats]

Not specifically MoHo related but interesting industry stuff, reading this it’s more about China than Tesla gaining footholds. But what I think we are seeing is the pains of technology change and how an industry and scociety adapts along with political legislation. Ford GM and others are all feeling the pain.

Volkswagen has ‘a year, maybe two to turn around’, financial chief warns

Volkswagen has ‘a year, maybe two to turn around’, financial chief warns

Carmaker defends plan to close German plants as Volvo ditches target to sell only electric cars by 2030

www.theguardian.com

 

[Guigsy]

All the European and Japanese brands got caught with their pants down by electric. Tesla led the charge. But the Koreans saw what was happening. The old guard of brands have lost their cache. People are willing to buy Chinese.

BMW seem to be pulling themselves back to the premium fast exec level. Stelantis brands are finally bringing down their prices. But VW-Audi Group are still trying to flog over priced cars that don't compete. Japanese brands are also still floundering. Toyota is only afloat because they've doubled down on the short term hybrid market. They've got little long term products.

 

[Janine]

I wonder whether this will also impact the Skoda brand

 

[dunnah01]

I wonder whether this will also impact the Skoda brand

Not to mention all the other VW brands: Seat, Audi, Skoda, Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, Ducati, Porsche, Scania, MAN, and Volkswagen commercial vehicles.

 

[Hedgewitch]

All the European and Japanese brands got caught with their pants down by electric. Tesla led the charge. But the Koreans saw what was happening. The old guard of brands have lost their cache. People are willing to buy Chinese.

Talking of "willing to buy Chinese", does anyone else follow Andrew Ditton on YouTube?

This is from this week's Caravan Salon in Dusseldorf, at 25.43 into video (and yes, I know that is a caravan but what is a basic coach-built but a caravan on a van chassis ??)

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[starquake]

And remember the Chinese firms are buying European factories in some cases, to bypass import fees. (which is legal, it has to be).

BYD are the furtherest along on this. I quite like their cars.
MG are closest behind.

Geely are third (Polestar, Volvo, and I forget the other brands they have).

The MG's are very good, we have 1 on our street at a neighbours, and a friend has just purchased one. A certain EV servicing firm (Cleevlys) who operatie nationwide have a fleet of them as service vehicles with over 150K miles on them (still with full range) rather showing the battery aging myth is exactly that.

I think VW (and Ford, and other American brands not embracing EV)'s will have a tougher time than Stellantis (who are actually doing ok, and the Chinese/Tesla brands. My "anti-China" father in law is buying a South Korean car as it's better than anything he can get from VW for the price (A hybrid Tucson). Personally I think a big part of this is the huge options list on EU cars ... where South Koreans offer 2-3 variations only.

 

[lorger]

Talking of "willing to buy Chinese", does anyone else follow Andrew Ditton on YouTube?

This is from this week's Caravan Salon in Dusseldorf, at 25.43 into video (and yes, I know that is a caravan but what is a basic coach-built but a caravan on a van chassis ??)

The motorhome from China look very nice and well built.

 

[Hedgewitch]

The MG's are very good, we have 1 on our street at a neighbours, and a friend has just purchased one.

We have been doing some vehicle shuffling and in the last month I have been in the market for a new daily drive. Was very, very close to buying an MG; handled nicely, comfortable, and a decent buy if you can ignore the fact that they depreciate faster that a rapidly-falling-heavy thing

In the end I did not buy because the salesman was a lying little sh*t, but that is not the fault of the car.

 

[starquake]

The motorhome from China look very nice and well built.

It does! I think disruption in leisure market from China may happen.

 

[starquake]

We have been doing some vehicle shuffling and in the last month I have been in the market for a new daily drive. Was very, very close to buying an MG; handled nicely, comfortable, and a decent buy if you can ignore the fact that they depreciate faster that a rapidly-falling-heavy thing

In the end I did not buy because the salesman was a lying little sh*t, but that is not the fault of the car.

The trick is apparently buying them when already depreciated, ie, the very good value 2-3 year old off lease models (usually in 11-13k region). Avoid the majority of depreciation, and if you get the EV, likely the remaining 5 years of warranty you'll basically spend same in savings from petrol (asssuming home charger) as the entire vehicle costs.

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[hymerman]

How can you tell if something is well built by just looking at photo's of it ?

 

[Jon Stewart]

I wonder whether this will also impact the Skoda brand

Don't know about Skoda, but the Seat brand is being dumped, and the only thing that was Seat will be Cupra.

Too much duplication across the VW group brands.

 

[Gromett]

Not specifically MoHo related but interesting industry stuff, reading this it’s more about China than Tesla gaining footholds. But what I think we are seeing is the pains of technology change and how an industry and scociety adapts along with political legislation. Ford GM and others are all feeling the pain.

Volkswagen has ‘a year, maybe two to turn around’, financial chief warns

Volkswagen has ‘a year, maybe two to turn around’, financial chief warns

Carmaker defends plan to close German plants as Volvo ditches target to sell only electric cars by 2030

www.theguardian.com

Reminds me of an old management story.

Boss pulls every member of staff into a meeting. After some pre-amble about how much he appreciates them all and how good the work they do is. He moves onto explain the current economic climate and new legislation has made the business untenable.
He is therefore going to have to close the company sadly. The staff all start mumbling and chatting with each other and one man is pushed forward asking is there anything that can be done to save the company and their jobs. He hms and ahhs a bit before saying well if everyone including himself took a pay cut of 20% for 2 years we may be able to survive through to the other side. The staff ultimately agree to this.

What the staff didn't know is he was aiming for a 0% pay rise for 2 years. But went in hard with the shutting down story to make the 0% pay rise more palatable, he was expecting a negotiation.

I suspect VW may be overselling the disaster story to beat the unions which have great power in Germany into allowing the shut down of the least profitable factories without a fight to "save the company".

Out of all the European companies I think VW is best placed to come out on top of this. They invested early in EV and went all in. Whereas companies like Stelantis tried to hedge their bets by altering existing vehicles to be EVs which gives a very poor range vehicle with other disadvantages.

 

[Gromett]

Don't know about Skoda, but the Seat brand is being dumped, and the only thing that was Seat will be Cupra.

Too much duplication across the VW group brands.

Cupra is going to get killed by EU legislation. Was in the news today that Cupra will be wiped out by the new Chinese car Tariff.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volkswagens-cupra-at-risk-planned-eu-tariffs-says-brand-ceo-2024-09-03/

 

[Jon Stewart]

Cupra is going to get killed by EU legislation. Was in the news today that Cupra will be wiped out by the new Chinese car Tariff.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volkswagens-cupra-at-risk-planned-eu-tariffs-says-brand-ceo-2024-09-03/

You gonna make it in china, that should be no surprise.

Frankly, they should have dumped VW and kept the Seat brand.

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[John-Laika]

I have had an horrible experience with VW EV we bought a WV e-up it's three years old and recently after charging it at home like we normally do the next morning went to drive it and got a error message saying "electric fault contact workshop".
RAC towed it into amazon dealer and that afternoon I got a vidio from them saying small puncture in the battery case and another one in the battery new case,battery and safety wiring needed cost £21.680
That's more that it would cost to replace it.
I'm waiting to hear from my insurance now.
I will never buy a VW electric again.
I contacted VW at customerservices@volkswagen.co.uk
And they are not interested even thought the battery has 8 year warranty they say damaged less see what the insurance day.

 

[Oldrat]

Merc PVC = €243,000

 

[Mzracer]

And remember the Chinese firms are buying European factories in some cases, to bypass import fees. (which is legal, it has to be).

BYD are the furtherest along on this. I quite like their cars.
MG are closest behind.

Geely are third (Polestar, Volvo, and I forget the other brands they have).

The MG's are very good, we have 1 on our street at a neighbours, and a friend has just purchased one. A certain EV servicing firm (Cleevlys) who operatie nationwide have a fleet of them as service vehicles with over 150K miles on them (still with full range) rather showing the battery aging myth is exactly that.

I think VW (and Ford, and other American brands not embracing EV)'s will have a tougher time than Stellantis (who are actually doing ok, and the Chinese/Tesla brands. My "anti-China" father in law is buying a South Korean car as it's better than anything he can get from VW for the price (A hybrid Tucson). Personally I think a big part of this is the huge options list on EU cars ... where South Koreans offer 2-3 variations only.

Take a look at the press announcement from Volvo (Geely)

MSN

 

[SpeedyDux]

Take a look at the press announcement from Volvo (Geely)

MSN

You can't force private buyers in Europe to ditch ICE and only buy BEVs. That's reality.

Intrigued by the Dacia Spring (£15- £17K new) I did some simulated journeys in my imagination reflecting my current car usage. Including the way I like to keep a 2/3 tankful of petrol for contingencies so I would need to keep charging it at every opportunity.

I concluded that there is no chance that an affordable BEV car will suit my real life requirements. This policy to end use of ICE means in effect, I would have to alter my lifestyle to suit the bluddy car. I am not going to do that. End of. With proper maintenance my ICE Hybrid will probably outlast me.

 

[starquake]

Take a look at the press announcement from Volvo (Geely)

MSN

Not unexpected given the success the South Koreans having with Hybrids (50% of their demand at least). China also has about 50% Hybrid sales too, it's pragmatic I would say.

The cars are still partly EV, and still run on EV only modes in China today (Geelys Chinese counterparts). Petrol only used for longer journies.

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[Guigsy]

Not unexpected given the success the South Koreans having with Hybrids (50% of their demand at least). China also has about 50% Hybrid sales too, it's pragmatic I would say.

The cars are still partly EV, and still run on EV only modes in China today (Geelys Chinese counterparts). Petrol only used for longer journies.

I think plug-in hybrids are the worst. You've got a very bad EV, or an overweight and over complicated ICE. The main reason they exist is the tax loophole.

 

[starquake]

Intrigued by the Dacia Spring (£15- £17K new) I did some simulated journeys in my imagination reflecting my current car usage. Including the way I like to keep a 2/3 tankful of petrol for contingencies so I would need to keep charging it at every opportunity.

The reality is EV ownership is you ALWAYS have 100% (or 80% if you prefer to leave just over 2/3 charged as many of us do). It's always plugged in if at home given (on most tariffs) it's a flat 7p to charge ANYTIME.

With Agile tariffs there is an advantage to not charging, and since moving back to Agile we've altered to leaving 100 miles min in the car, and plugging in when lower.

^ is assuming home charging, but even when we away in the car for a week or more, we're usually first thing on arrival either plugging into a type 2 socket at a family members house (most have EV's already) ... OR a normal plug if not. We have a 10m extension along with the 5m charge cable for granny charging always in car, mad to not plug in when possible and offer friends/family their costs.

 

[starquake]

I think plug-in hybrids are the worst. You've got a very bad EV, or an overweight and over complicated ICE. The main reason they exist is the tax loophole.

Not disagreeing, but they are very popular in China which is ultiamtly where Geely (who own a large % of Volvo) are, so they have a lot of experience.

 

[starquake]

I have had an horrible experience with VW EV we bought a WV e-up it's three years old and recently after charging it at home like we normally do the next morning went to drive it and got a error message saying "electric fault contact workshop".
RAC towed it into amazon dealer and that afternoon I got a vidio from them saying small puncture in the battery case and another one in the battery new case,battery and safety wiring needed cost £21.680
That's more that it would cost to replace it.
I'm waiting to hear from my insurance now.
I will never buy a VW electric again.
I contacted VW at customerservices@volkswagen.co.uk
And they are not interested even thought the battery has 8 year warranty they say damaged less see what the insurance day.

Be very worthwhile contacting media on this. They seem to jump any any anti-EV story, and ahem it should help your case I would imagine.

Worst case take em to court, if the battery was fit for purpose how could it get punctured. That is the question I would argue, as I presume you've not taken it off road ever ? Sounds like a case for a lawyer for sure, and get advice as I am not one!

 

[gus-lopez]

s will have a tougher time than Stellantis (who are actually doing ok,

But not in the states.not even with ice.

I suspect VW may be overselling the disaster story to beat the unions which have great power in Germany into allowing the shut down of the least profitable factories without a fight to "save the company".

Can't be done as the unions have a real presence even on the board of directors.

Merc PVC = €243,000

sign behind says it all.

The reality is EV ownership is you ALWAYS have 100% (or 80% if you prefer to leave just over 2/3 charged as many of us do). It's always plugged in if at home given (on most tariffs) it's a flat 7p to charge ANYTIME.

yes but I return home having filled with diesel just before arriving. An hour later I can depart on another 500mile journey.

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[Coastal Cruiser.]

People are willing to buy Chinese.

Nope not me

 

[Steve and Denise]

Well we bought a new MG HS 6 months ago every bit as good as our Mercedes for half the money, so my mind is made up, if they produce a Motorhome I would certainly take a look

 

[Peavy]

Don't know about Skoda, but the Seat brand is being dumped, and the only thing that was Seat will be Cupra.

Too much duplication across the VW group brands.

So sad seeing the end of SEAT, a brand with so much history

 

[Oldrat]

Nope not me

Nor me if I can possibly avoid it.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Nor me if I can possibly avoid it.

Have 3Volkswagens in the family and my Audi soon to be swapped for a new BMW all good cars with good resale value, would like to see how 3-4-5 year old Chinese cars goes on resale value

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