Vibration at 30 - 50 mph - HELP

[Ianbenny]

I have already posted on the tech section about this but haven't solved it yet. Need some technical experience from you guys.

2014 Peugeot Boxer - had the rear chassis and spring bushes changed due to squealing. Also had the tyres changed for the MOT
Chassis bushes are a new design, not the ones below, without a central hollow pin. They must be wider as they supply 2 oversize washers to fit to the springs.

Bad vibration at 30mph to 50mph - levels out at 60mph due to the higher frequency but still there. This van drove really nicely before this.

Thought it was the tyres, so had another set fitted - convinced myself it was better but its not. Its unpleasant to drive and its starting to shake the marking light bolts loose. I have done about 150 miles since but hate driving it now.

So, getting desperate as we were going to France at end of August for the first time in years. It maybe our last trip abroad as wife is unwell.

Had it in for a oil/filter service at a closer garage and he noticed that the anti roll bar had moved to one side, i.e it was not evenly located. Would this cause a problem?

I wonder if the vibration had caused this to slide across.

As it was OK before the work (except the squeal ) I think its resonance from the suspension, my next steps is to try and put it back to the position it was in previously and belt and braces approach:

1. Replacing the new bushes with the older style with a central pin. This allows the shackles to move more easily it needed
2. Replace the springs - this ensures that its not the new spring bushes that were put in
3. Change the shock absorbers just for good measure.

Could it be wheel related or bearing/hubs? Wheels have been balanced to death and again were fine when it went in.

Does this sound feasible. I know it will cost but I have little option but to throw some money at it, as I cant afford another van, and I cant sell it like it is.

The garage that did the work is going to have another look and put the old style bushes in, but they are always busy and it usually takes 3 weeks to get a slot so I am running out of time for my holidays

Any other ideas or thought would be appreciated as I am getting desperate.

 

[Sleeveless]

Wheel imbalance vibration normally manifests at 60 mph not 30-50 as the centrifugal force is not sufficient at that speed. Is the vibration related to wheel rotation speed ? I would have thought that any wheel distortion or runout would be noticed at tyre change / balancing. Also does it shake the steering wheel ? Does braking slightly stop the vibration ? Can you feel it through the brake pedal ? is it better or worse when driving around a bend ?

 

[Telrose]

I have already posted on the tech section about this but haven't solved it yet. Need some technical experience from you guys.

2014 Peugeot Boxer - had the rear chassis and spring bushes changed due to squealing. Also had the tyres changed for the MOT
Chassis bushes are a new design, not the ones below, without a central hollow pin. They must be wider as they supply 2 oversize washers to fit to the springs.

Bad vibration at 30mph to 50mph - levels out at 60mph due to the higher frequency but still there. This van drove really nicely before this.

Thought it was the tyres, so had another set fitted - convinced myself it was better but its not. Its unpleasant to drive and its starting to shake the marking light bolts loose. I have done about 150 miles since but hate driving it now.

So, getting desperate as we were going to France at end of August for the first time in years. It maybe our last trip abroad as wife is unwell.

Had it in for a oil/filter service at a closer garage and he noticed that the anti roll bar had moved to one side, i.e it was not evenly located. Would this cause a problem?

I wonder if the vibration had caused this to slide across.

As it was OK before the work (except the squeal ) I think its resonance from the suspension, my next steps is to try and put it back to the position it was in previously and belt and braces approach:

1. Replacing the new bushes with the older style with a central pin. This allows the shackles to move more easily it needed
2. Replace the springs - this ensures that its not the new spring bushes that were put in
3. Change the shock absorbers just for good measure.

Could it be wheel related or bearing/hubs? Wheels have been balanced to death and again were fine when it went in.

Does this sound feasible. I know it will cost but I have little option but to throw some money at it, as I cant afford another van, and I cant sell it like it is.

The garage that did the work is going to have another look and put the old style bushes in, but they are always busy and it usually takes 3 weeks to get a slot so I am running out of time for my holidays

Any other ideas or thought would be appreciated as I am getting desperate.

View attachment 921431View attachment 921446

I am open to any possibilities but I plan to change the shocks - any recommendations on the best ones to use?

Could it be a drive shaft u/j worn

 

[KiltedCamper]

This really is a bit of an enigma isn't it ? I've driven our Isuzu Grafter with a snapped rear leaf spring and there was no vibration at all but you could feel a "pull" on the steering wheel and we had replacement shock absorbers fitted to a car that were faulty from brand new, driving and braking were a nightmare but no vibration ?
The fact that you've changed the tyres twice must surely rule them out, but I'd be looking at their and the hub's mating faces, wheel bearings and drive shafts ?
I personally wouldn't trust Halfords or Kwikfit to do the tracking on a wheel barrow, but that's just me !

Re: Halfords - Totally useless - ditto Kwikfit

 

[Raul]

Could it be a drive shaft u/j worn

Very possible, front shafts one long and one short, the long shaft has a weight, if you loose that weight, the shaft vibrates.

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[Daffy64]

Further to the above; multiple things happen at various times, on vehicles. Not suggesting coincidence but a rear pad could have got stuck or, perhaps, a piston in a caliper became seized or sticky and caused a pad not to release from the disc. That can generate excessive heat in the disc, warp it and cause vibration as you've described.

Without the long thread; reading just about vibration of cupboards, I'd have written the same post. I may have suggested off balance rear wheels/tyres but you've addressed that potential already.

If it were worn drive shaft or CV joints, you should hear them.
If it were an out of balance drive shaft, you could get vibration but only through the wheels it's connected to. Being FWD, neither of those would be through your cupboards but, instead, through the steering wheel.

Mis-alignment will wear your tyres excessively but not vibrate.
Low tyre pressure will affect handling but not vibrate.
Loose suspension joints/bushes will lead to noises and crabbing and handling issues but not usually vibration.
Worn dampers can lead to wheel bouncing (coz they won't be doing their job), but it would be all the time and not in a specific speed range.

One thing going to tighten my focus, please, drive a 50mph with the vibration happening. Depress the clutch. Is there any change in vibration?

Again at 50mph, with vibration, put in neutral and release clutch pedal. What difference is there?

Again at 50mph, with vibration, slightly lift handbrake lever (if you have one), just to cause slight binding. Does the vibration change? Amount of it or sound?

If your hand-brake is electric, don't use it! If you have a handbrake switch instead of hand-brake lever, that in itself could be the cause.

I'm not familiar with a boxer on wheels but all my points apply in principle to all vehicles.

I’m just reading this for the first time this morning, this is a really good check list and the suggestions about trying different gears/clutch in/out is a really simple way to get an idea of what’s going wrong - to add to the above the one thing that I thought of much earlier in the thread was the wheel/hub interface - are both surfaces clean/corrosion free and the wheel going on square because it will change the balance.

 

[Diabalo]

Ianbenny Any update?

 

[wizzo]

Are you sure the cv joints in the driveshafts are okay, no play in them?

 

[JohnFX]

Can you find somewhere with a rolling road? That might mean the problem could be seen when the wheels are rotating. Had a Sierra many years ago with water in one tyre caused no end of grief until the tyre was removed but this is not likely to be your problem.

 

[Ianbenny]

Picked up your thread for the 1st time this evening and have read through the posts. If you can't feel the vibration in the steering it could be coming from the rear. I would disconnect each rear shock at one end and try to push & pull up and down by hand to gauge their effectiveness.

Could it be a drive shaft u/j worn

Very possible, front shafts one long and one short, the long shaft has a weight, if you loose that weight, the shaft vibrates.

Are you sure the cv joints in the driveshafts are okay, no play in them?

Thanks for your replies. In answer to these posts, Driveshafts were replaced in October

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[Ianbenny]

TheMobileWanderer​

Ok, I'm back and have read it all. As the thread gets longer I think you'll see an increase in posts and suggestions relating to others experiences on their vehicles, which might increase your frustration because they're not relevant to yours.

If the vibration affects your cupboards, the issue is at the rear.
If it's coming through the steering wheel, it's an issue at the front.

You said the matter first occurred after mot where a tyre was changed. No wonder you've focused on tyres as a potential cause. However, you have, imv, effectively ruled out tyres because you've had them changed again and balanced several times.

Your friend/mechanic/someone felt vibration from the rear and through the brake pedal. That would have me looking at the rear brakes, discs, pistons, pads, handbrake. Not to change anything more, yet, but to remove, clean, check and refit using copper grease where appropriate. (Not on the discs themselves or the pad front surface that presses on the discs).

I'd also have the discs examined for warping and I'd grind away any lip that has formed on the edges of the discs.

A bearing shouldn't cause vibration. It should/will cause a humming/groaning sound which gets louder with speed/wear but maintain the same pitch.

If it were rear shocks, and the wheel were to be bouncing, you'd hear the shocks thumping as well as your cupboards vibrating. (That may require assistance trained ear).

Please try a removal, cleaning and replacement of the discs and pads, as suggested, and come back with results.

Hth

TMW, thank you for the detailed replies.

The vibration is mainly felt through the bodywork of the van, mainly through the seats and floor, but also if you put a hand on the side window it can be felt there and well as hearing the cupboards rattling although they do rattle a bit normally. I can feel something through the steering wheel but only slightly.

The vibration is not noticeable until after 20-25mph. It seems worse on rougher road surfaces but I could be imagining that.

It increases with speed, so levels out the faster you go, but is still there. Worse between 30 -45mph

I have always felt it was the rear as this is where the work was done.

Although my friend said he could feel something through the brake pedal, I cant. - but the hand brake was tightened up for the MOT and the main dealer said the nearside rear brake was binding slightly which I mentioned to the garage and he adjusted it. But this could be something. I have had warped discs on a car previously and this doesnt feel like that. I also have had a wheel bearing go, and again this doesn't feel like that.

Rear shocks have been done (KYB ones fitted) as one was not travelling fully, but it was like that before the vibration. When the shocks were being done, there was confusion with the size needed - and took a few days to get the correct one so I tried a test run down the road with only one shock on steadily. It still vibrated so really ruled out the shocks then.

 

[Ianbenny]

One thing going to tighten my focus, please, drive a 50mph with the vibration happening. Depress the clutch. Is there any change in vibration?

Again at 50mph, with vibration, put in neutral and release clutch pedal. What difference is there?

Again at 50mph, with vibration, slightly lift handbrake lever (if you have one), just to cause slight binding. Does the vibration change? Amount of it or sound?

So initially I did this, at a few different speeds to check if it was engine/gearbox related.

On the first 2 points there is no change, either with clutch depressed or in neutral. I did the 50mph on on the A1M which is fairly smooth

The third one, with the handbrake slightly applied I have not tried but will this week or next depending on weather as the van is in storage.

I do need the tracking done as the van pulls a little to the nearside after the driveshafts were changed.

I think I have said previously, it could be a coincidence and something has shifted when the rear bushes were done

I wish I had got the tyres done later at a tyre fitters rather than the garage, then I would have pin pointed the direction of the fault.