Vibration at 30 - 50 mph - HELP

[Ianbenny]

I have already posted on the tech section about this but haven't solved it yet. Need some technical experience from you guys.

2014 Peugeot Boxer - had the rear chassis and spring bushes changed due to squealing. Also had the tyres changed for the MOT
Chassis bushes are a new design, not the ones below, without a central hollow pin. They must be wider as they supply 2 oversize washers to fit to the springs.

Bad vibration at 30mph to 50mph - levels out at 60mph due to the higher frequency but still there. This van drove really nicely before this.

Thought it was the tyres, so had another set fitted - convinced myself it was better but its not. Its unpleasant to drive and its starting to shake the marking light bolts loose. I have done about 150 miles since but hate driving it now.

So, getting desperate as we were going to France at end of August for the first time in years. It maybe our last trip abroad as wife is unwell.

Had it in for a oil/filter service at a closer garage and he noticed that the anti roll bar had moved to one side, i.e it was not evenly located. Would this cause a problem?

I wonder if the vibration had caused this to slide across.

As it was OK before the work (except the squeal ) I think its resonance from the suspension, my next steps is to try and put it back to the position it was in previously and belt and braces approach:

1. Replacing the new bushes with the older style with a central pin. This allows the shackles to move more easily it needed
2. Replace the springs - this ensures that its not the new spring bushes that were put in
3. Change the shock absorbers just for good measure.

Could it be wheel related or bearing/hubs? Wheels have been balanced to death and again were fine when it went in.

Does this sound feasible. I know it will cost but I have little option but to throw some money at it, as I cant afford another van, and I cant sell it like it is.

The garage that did the work is going to have another look and put the old style bushes in, but they are always busy and it usually takes 3 weeks to get a slot so I am running out of time for my holidays

Any other ideas or thought would be appreciated as I am getting desperate.

 

[maz]

I have been back today and been out with the service manager - nice bloke with lots of experience. He test drove it with me as a passenger and went through any issues that could cause it. He still insisted they vibrate like this.
The labour charge at the dealer is £150 +vat and he said he could start replacing things but it could escalate cost wise

I took it on a longer drive home, and I now noticed it is vibrating when slowing down to a stop using the brakes to slow for a roundabout as well for example, but not like a warped disc feels through the pedal.

I have got the report in writing stating they think its normal

As you said earlier, we all know our own vans. This vibration is not normal, and it only started after it had been into a garage for other work - just like in my case.

I guess it boils down to how much money (and time) you are prepared to throw into trying to resolve the problem. I got very down about my van's problem at one point. You try all these different things, hoping they will cure it, only to have your hopes dashed. Also I was fulltiming in the van, which made the investigations all the more tiresome. Once I had decided to trade it in for a different van (not at one of the good guy dealers, I wouldn't do that) I felt a lot better.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Ianbenny]

I got very down about my van's problem at one point. You try all these different things, hoping they will cure it, only to have your hopes dashed

I know how you feel - and I feel exactly the same. Its a soul destroying experience and does get you down.

 

[Barriesimpson]

I know how you feel - and I feel exactly the same. Its a soul destroying experience and does get you down.

You need a 'NVH' specialist - Noise, vibration and harshness. When I worked for the Jaguar, Land Rover and Rover importer here in Las Palmas, there was a special tool you could buy which was very rudimentary but effective for finding these elusive problems. Basically it was a box with several tubes coming out of it with clips on the end that you would attach to the gearbox, chassis, brake callipers or whatever you suspected and you had a set of headphones and you could switch between each input and listen to it while driving around. You knew when you found it straight away. We solved many a problem with this bit of kit. I'm sure technology has evolved a lot since those days, but sometimes the most simple is the most effective. Find an old (as in age) engineer who understands the problem, maybe he will have one of these boxes.

I really hope you can sort it out, I would be wanting to shoot somebody by now if it was mine.

All the best.

 

[Ianbenny]

We solved many a problem with this bit of kit. I'm sure technology has evolved a lot since those days, but sometimes the most simple is the most effective. Find an old (as in age) engineer who understands the problem, maybe he will have one of these boxes.

I am an old age engineer, well not that old. But not a motor engineer. When I was learning vibration at college , when monitoring machinery they used accelerometers attached to the different parts, and a FFT analyser (fast fourier transform) to analyse the peaks of frequency. Probably use the accelerometers but laptops now. I think our phones and smartwatches have them in to measure steps

I saw the water board bloke looking for a leak on the road yesterday with a long pipe and earpiece.

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[Ianbenny]

I guess it boils down to how much money (and time) you are prepared to throw into trying to resolve the problem. I got very down about my van's problem at one point. You try all these different things, hoping they will cure it, only to have your hopes dashed. Also I was fulltiming in the van, which made the investigations all the more tiresome. Once I had decided to trade it in for a different van (not at one of the good guy dealers, I wouldn't do that) I felt a lot better.

I have 2 options - trade it in and lose £10K perhaps - prices have just gone down and I paid the higher prices last year. Or chuck some money in parts at it to see if I can solve it.

It has to do with rotation and speed so its connected to the wheels. I am going to get the driveshafts changed first. The garage keeps saying its only got 40k miles on so wont be the driveshafts, but its got to be something.

How do you find the good dealers from the bad? I really need to use my local dealer if I change as I need to be local as I have no one to give me a lift if it has to stay for warranty work and I use the storage there. Its a difficult decision but I cant change till next year anyway and I only have a limited budget

Have you a link to your original post regarding your issues

 

[maz]

I have 2 options - trade it in and lose £10K perhaps - prices have just gone down and I paid the higher prices last year. Or chuck some money in parts at it to see if I can solve it.

It has to do with rotation and speed so its connected to the wheels. I am going to get the driveshafts changed first. The garage keeps saying its only got 40k miles on so wont be the driveshafts, but its got to be something.

How do you find the good dealers from the bad? I really need to use my local dealer if I change as I need to be local as I have no one to give me a lift if it has to stay for warranty work and I use the storage there. Its a difficult decision but I cant change till next year anyway and I only have a limited budget

Have you a link to your original post regarding your issues

It was over 12 years ago now, but 'good guy' dealers that I wouldn't have dumped a van with 'issues' on were Johns Cross, Camper UK and Morans. The dealer that I traded it in to soon sold it on anyway, though they must have realised it had a problem. I know it changed hands (and registration plates) quite frequently after that .......

I was lucky and didn't waste much money on trying to sort the Burstner out before calling it a day. I didn't post on Fun about the problem at the time - maybe at the back of my mind all along was that I might need to get rid of it so I kept quiet. A few Funsters knew about it and did their best to help me with it - especially JockandRita as mentioned earlier, also Geo.

 

[Googlebot]

I would be tempted to look at second hand parts from a scrap yard.

My wife’s car currently has a sensor issue, new sensor is £125. Found one on eBay for £16, for that price it means I can swap out and exclude the component if it’s a wiring issue before I spend ages looking for something else.

You can do online enquiries UK wide and they will post so no issue with availability usually?

 

[The joker]

When the work was done was either a two or four wheel alignment done as this can cause vibrations, should be done after any suspension work IMOH but not always thought about. If it's beyond higher tolerances you know it's something major, for example chassis problem. Then if all is okay then drive shafts is a good shout.
I feel sorry for you as when this sort of thing happens it makes you feel down and every time you go to get the keys out it ruins the whole experience of driving your pride and joy.

 

[Ianbenny]

Thanks maz for your reply
New driveshafts arranged for 2 weeks

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[Ianbenny]

When the work was done was either a two or four wheel alignment done as this can cause vibrations, should be done after any suspension work IMOH but not always thought about. If it's beyond higher tolerances you know it's something major, for example chassis problem. Then if all is okay then drive shafts is a good shout.
I feel sorry for you as when this sort of thing happens it makes you feel down and every time you go to get the keys out it ruins the whole experience of driving your pride and joy.

Not sure what you mean by alignment, or is that tracking. The rear springs were not removed from the front mounts, only the rear ones so not removed completely.

 

[maz]

Thanks maz for your reply
New driveshafts arranged for 2 weeks

Let's hope that it is driveshafts. The garage that changed the ones on mine were convinced that would cure the problem - and were almost as gutted as I was when it didn't.

 

[The joker]

Not sure what you mean by alignment, or is that tracking. The rear springs were not removed from the front mounts, only the rear ones so not removed completely.

The front wheels are usually tracking and your rear is similar but it puts all wheels within manufacturing specs and covers all your wheel alignments

Also the wear problems might have been masking the issue so the bushes tighten up and reduce flex and movement

 

[Ianbenny]

Let's hope that it is driveshafts. The garage that changed the ones on mine were convinced that would cure the problem - and were almost as gutted as I was when it didn't.

Bloody Hell Maz
The garage does loads of Boxer van taxis with no bother - until mine
My van has the van chassis not the Alko which gives me hope as its only 6m long

The garage asked another mechanic if he has seen this before, and he said only once but it was a bearing but took a long time to find out.

I am keeping my fingers crossed. I was so gutted that the main dealer just dismissed it. Thanks for your help and everyone who has offered solutions. It is matter of elimination unfortunately.

 

[Steve and Denise]

I have had a wobble under load and it was a drive shaft many years ago

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[Googlebot]

I had a noise when driving on my Wife’s car, vibration too all of a sudden. You could feel it through the steering wheel. Couldn’t feel any rumbling or play from the bearings, I was sure however it was the drivers front bearing.

Changed it and the vibration stopped but the noise remained, seemed to now be coming from the passenger rear, changed that bearing too and lo and behold, sorted.

You will get there, it’s so frustrating in the meantime. It isn’t the MAF sensor on my Wife’s car, a scrappie acquired one arrived today and it’s exactly the same, thankfully it was only £16. It’s off to a specialist next week.

 

[Ianbenny]

Technical question - would it be better or easier to change front wheel bearings at the same time as the drive shafts?

Belt and braces approach

 

[Googlebot]

Technical question - would it be better or easier to change front wheel bearings at the same time as the drive shafts?

Belt and braces approach

It would save on some Labour time. Depends how much they are to buy? If they were about £50 each, I would change them. If £200 each, I wouldn’t.

It isn’t a huge job either way.

 

[Ianbenny]

Had the driveshafts changed today........ No difference - could be even worse especially at 50 mph plus, which wasn't too bad previously. Garage said the wheels bearings were OK, and to be honest said that it would be unlikely to be the driveshafts with the mileage on the van when discussed before.

Going to get a couple of wheels/tyres from eBay/Facebook market place to change over the front wheels just to check - and it wont cost a lot. No 15 inch ones have come up locally in the last few weeks, load of 16 inch ones.

After that, I am stumped. We like the van but I don't like driving it now like this -

 

[dunnah01]

Had the driveshafts changed today........ No difference - could be even worse especially at 50 mph plus, which wasn't too bad previously. Garage said the wheels bearings were OK, and to be honest said that it would be unlikely to be the driveshafts with the mileage on the van when discussed before.

Going to get a couple of wheels/tyres from eBay/Facebook market place to change over the front wheels just to check - and it wont cost a lot. No 15 inch ones have come up locally in the last few weeks, load of 16 inch ones.

After that, I am stumped. We like the van but I don't like driving it now like this -

I've lost track a little bit tbh but has the rear been put back to as it was originally with all hanger and shackle bolts double checked for tightness?

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[Ianbenny]

I've lost track a little bit tbh but has the rear been put back to as it was originally with all hanger and shackle bolts double checked for tightness?

Yes they have been put back to the original design. The only thing is that the leaf spring bushes were replaced and they are still in. The only other thing I can do is put on 2 new springs.
Yes its been a long few months

 

[dunnah01]

Yes they have been put back to the original design. The only thing is that the leaf spring bushes were replaced and they are still in. The only other thing I can do is put on 2 new springs.
Yes its been a long few months

I'd take another look at those bushes as all the symptoms point to them not fitting correctly. A comparison on the bench with the old style silentbloc bushes would at least show any fitting differences

 

[Ianbenny]

I'd take another look at those bushes as all the symptoms point to them not fitting correctly. A comparison on the bench with the old style silentbloc bushes would at least show any fitting differences

I haven't got the old bushes unfortunately, bought the rear spring bushes from Coastal MH's. Peugeot dont supply them, only new springs.
The chassis bushes have been replaced twice, once with the Peugeot new style bush( 2 off each side) which use washers to correct the spacing on the spring. I thought these were the problem so I bought the old style bushes from Coastal again and had them put in so back to what it was.

The only thing I can do to return everything back to original is to replace the springs. I dont think you can put the bushes in incorrectly as they have a flange which controls their position.

The only other thing of note is the garage had to lower the waste water tank to get the bushes out initially, but have put the bolts in from the outside, nuts on the inside which is opposite to what they were. I just noticed this last week. I think they did this so they didnt have to drop the tank again, but the bolt is touching the tank so it could be transferring vibration. When it stops raining, I am going crawl underneath to adjust the tank to clear this bolt.

 

[maz]

Had the driveshafts changed today........ No difference - could be even worse especially at 50 mph plus, which wasn't too bad previously. Garage said the wheels bearings were OK, and to be honest said that it would be unlikely to be the driveshafts with the mileage on the van when discussed before.

Going to get a couple of wheels/tyres from eBay/Facebook market place to change over the front wheels just to check - and it wont cost a lot. No 15 inch ones have come up locally in the last few weeks, load of 16 inch ones.

After that, I am stumped. We like the van but I don't like driving it now like this -

I feel your pain - it is sounding more and more like the issue I had with my first van.

 

[Ianbenny]

I feel your pain - it is sounding more and more like the issue I had with my first van.

I have that feeling too unfortunately . Thanks

I am just so upset that the van can go in for minor work and MOT and come out like this. Wish I hadnt got the tyres on, and just used to spare to get it through its test.

This would have made things clearer as to what the fault was caused by. But to save time, I opted to get the tyres changed as I was going to do it anyway, but this muddied the waters so to speak.

We are going to use it for short trips but will trade it next year when I can afford it, as I will of course loose a fair bit of value, without a lot of use of the van, as we were going to France this year for a month which had to be cancelled