Up-Rating The Hard Way

My experience of JR this last week. I made an email enquiry about uprating, sending all four weight plate photos, including the axle, what type of suspension (Alko) and chassis (AMC 35L) our B544 is on, plus wheel/tyre size (215/70 15 109) Based on all the research I have done I expected to be told, with our planned AS air suspension and wider (225/70 15 112) tyres that we could go to 3850kg or possibly 3950kg with 2240kg rear.
His prompt reply was 4200kg GVM and 2200kg axle.
I relied promptly and politely queried if the axle could be 2240kg in view of the tyre/suspension upgrade, not mentioning the 4200kg on a light Alko chassis.
After five days of no reply I have thanked him for his time and asked him to delete my enquiry. I have sent my enquiry to Sv Tech by post yesterday.
 
Hettie's Crew said:
My experience of JR this last week. I made an email enquiry about uprating, sending all four weight plate photos, including the axle, what type of suspension (Alko) and chassis (AMC 35L) our B544 is on, plus wheel/tyre size (215/70 15 109) Based on all the research I have done I expected to be told, with our planned AS air suspension and wider (225/70 15 112) tyres that we could go to 3850kg or possibly 3950kg with 2240kg rear.
His prompt reply was 4200kg GVM and 2200kg axle.
I relied promptly and politely queried if the axle could be 2240kg in view of the tyre/suspension upgrade, not mentioning the 4200kg on a light Alko chassis.
After five days of no reply I have thanked him for his time and asked him to delete my enquiry. I have sent my enquiry to Sv Tech by post yesterday.
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Your choice but it seems a bit 'churlish' to me to do this, it could simply be that he is checking it out further for you, or has mistaken your follow up email for your original one (easy to do) ... if you want to pay more that's up to you however it would be good to know what weight SVTech come back with as a comparison so please let us know.
 
Minxy Girl said:
Your choice but it seems a bit 'churlish' to me to do this
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churlish
ˈtʃəːlɪʃ/
adjective
  1. rude in a mean-spirited and surly way.
    "it seems churlish to complain"
    synonyms: rude, ill-mannered, discourteous, impolite, ungracious, unmannerly, uncivil, ungentlemanly, ungallant, unchivalrous;
    Many Thanks for that @Minxy Girl
 
Hettie's Crew said:
churlish
ˈtʃəːlɪʃ/
adjective
  1. rude in a mean-spirited and surly way.
    "it seems churlish to complain"
    synonyms: rude, ill-mannered, discourteous, impolite, ungracious, unmannerly, uncivil, ungentlemanly, ungallant, unchivalrous;
    Many Thanks for that @Minxy Girl
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So you know the meaning of the word ... in this sense I meant 'discourteous' as in not waiting or going back to check with JR but instead just 'complain' on here. Oh, just to also mention that I always understood that putting a word in quotes meant it lessened the meaning somewhat so as not to be insulting ....
 
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Well I'm with sv tech, uprated from 3500 to 3850 and paid their fee.A year or so later fitted air assist and went to 4200 they sent a new plate free of charge.:xThumb:
 
I Used JR. It wasn't a problem nor was the DVhellA
However as you may have noticed I'm uplated to 4750kg, 2650kg of that is the rear axle. How so pray tell? my tires are only 1250kg each so how was that possible?
I questioned it at the time but John just said I can make it less if you wish. No explanation as to how it could be 2650 so seems a bit dodgy.

No way would I use SvTech again who simply charge far too much!
 
Techno said:
I Used JR. It wasn't a problem nor was the DVhellA
However as you may have noticed I'm uplated to 4750kg, 2650kg of that is the rear axle. How so pray tell? my tires are only 1250kg each so how was that possible?
I questioned it at the time but John just said I can make it less if you wish. No explanation as to how it could be 2650 so seems a bit dodgy.

No way would I use SvTech again who simply charge far too much!
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That's not right, how can it be uprated to that when the tyre load only adds up to 2500kg in total?
 
From: Andrew Waters
Sent: 07 May 2016 14:03
To: truckcon@outlook.com
Subject: up plating


Hello John
I got your contact info from Mel on motorhome FUN forum.
I am enquiring about my vehicle which is a 2008 Rapido 7090F on a AL-KO heavy chassis.
The rear axle has an Alko plate at 2400kg and the front axle is rated at 2100kg and I've had VB comfort springs fitted as an upgrade.
Rapido had this plated at 4250kg gross but possibly it can go beyond 4500kg?
Usual tyres 225/75/16 Agilis camping
Vin plate picture attached.
Regards Andy Waters
 
Techno said:
From: Andrew Waters
Sent: 07 May 2016 14:03
To: truckcon@outlook.com
Subject: up plating


Hello John
I got your contact info from Mel on motorhome FUN forum.
I am enquiring about my vehicle which is a 2008 Rapido 7090F on a AL-KO heavy chassis.
The rear axle has an Alko plate at 2400kg and the front axle is rated at 2100kg and I've had VB comfort springs fitted as an upgrade.
Rapido had this plated at 4250kg gross but possibly it can go beyond 4500kg?
Usual tyres 225/75/16 Agilis camping
Vin plate picture attached.
Regards Andy Waters
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If that is all you told him then he didn't even know your tyre load and he has said 4750kg.
 
He will be well aware that those tyres are 1250kg
It’s his job
 
I,m not sure about that he knows his job, its also his job not to uprate it to 2650kg rear when the tyre load is only 2500kg, but he did.
 
Agilis camping 225/75/16 seem to be available with a 118 rating giving 1320kg per wheel, so 2640 per axle.
Perhaps thats why he went over 2500 on rear axle?

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SandraL said:
Agilis camping 225/75/16 seem to be available with a 118 rating giving 1320kg per wheel, so 2640 per axle.
Perhaps thats why he went over 2500 on rear axle?
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Yes, that could be right Sandra but surely he should have asked the load rating first.
 
Techno said:
I Used JR. It wasn't a problem nor was the DVhellA
However as you may have noticed I'm uplated to 4750kg, 2650kg of that is the rear axle. How so pray tell? my tires are only 1250kg each so how was that possible?
I questioned it at the time but John just said I can make it less if you wish. No explanation as to how it could be 2650 so seems a bit dodgy.

No way would I use SvTech again who simply charge far too much!
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It's this aspect that's put me off, he said we can go to 4200kg though we are on 15inch wheels and the light Alko chassis. All I have ever read and learnt about the subject tells me that 3850kg or possibly 3950kg is the max. I maybe completely wrong and he right but it's left me having doubts.
Must agree that SV Tech charge too much though.
 
Yes he should have checked but I don’t think the axle itself is more than 2500 anyway
 
yes but some people would load the rear to 2650kg because that's what its now plated at and that exceeds the tyres load, its a dangerous game he is playing.
If I was doing his job I would be more thorough.
Its also the brakes that are an important part.
I enquired about an Iveco based motorhome recently to SV Tech, the front axle was 1900 rear 3100, the most it can go to is 4500 because of the brakes they said.
I may ask this guy what it can go to just to see if he says the same.
 
My garage is not capable of overloading my axle, the floor would collapse first :xrofl:
There is a 150kg warning label in there
The most I’ve ever been at is 2150 ish so I’ll never be over the “safe” load
The certificate just gives me loads of unusable headroom

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CazPaul said:
Yes I know you did and I,m repeating it, he must be a right joker if you told him your tyre loads
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I don't remember informing JR of the tyre load or index letter, when I went through the same process, but I did give him the tyre size. The vehicle is listed as a Ducato 18 Q LWB, which I believe comes with 16" rims as standard, so maybe the original tyre loading spec was already known.

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
JockandRita said:
I don't remember informing JR of the tyre load or index letter, when I went through the same process, but I did give him the tyre size. The vehicle is listed as a Ducato 18 Q LWB, which I believe comes with 16" rims as standard, so maybe the original tyre loading spec was already known.

Cheers,

Jock. :)
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Surely he should be asking though Jock, that is his business, his reputation and competency, sv tech ensured we had the correct tyres when we uprated our hymer in 2010, had to send them proof that we had the correct ones fitted or they would not uprate it.
Imagine the consequences for them if something went wrong, firms like this need to cover their own backs.
Maybe I am just too safety conscious after writing risk assessments for about 30 years.
 
CazPaul said:
Surely he should be asking though Jock, that is his business, his reputation and competency,
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I know where you are coming from Paul, but maybe he has access to all those details for the original spec,of the vehicle build. VOSA didn't ask about the tyre load index, when they up plated me on the front axle. They just accepted the European Type Approval certificate which I paid Goldschmitt for, when they did the coil suspension uprating.

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
When I uprated with John, I had to send him pictures of my tyre to include size and rating, as well as showing the rear was fitted with disc brakes.

Other than price, the process for me seemed no different to other providers of such a service and I for one, was grateful that I had the choice of the company that provided me the service.
 
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JockandRita said:
I don't remember informing JR of the tyre load or index letter, when I went through the same process, but I did give him the tyre size. The vehicle is listed as a Ducato 18 Q LWB, which I believe comes with 16" rims as standard, so maybe the original tyre loading spec was already known.

Cheers,

Jock. :)
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Different tyres have different weight ratings so there isn't a "standard spec" for any particular size.

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NickNic said:
Different tyres have different weight ratings so there isn't a "standard spec" for any particular size.
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I appreciate that Nick (y) but perhaps the minimum load indexing for a 215/75 R16 C, (8 x ply 113/111, at 2300Kgs per single tyre) is suffice to have met the standard required for the up plating. Our tyres meet, (or exceed) those ratings. (y)

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
Minxy Girl said:
it would be good to know what weight SVTech come back with as a comparison so please let us know
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Just had confirmation from Sv Tech that, as I thought, the light Alko chassis can only go to 3850kg, not 4200kg as JR claimed. They are happy for the the rear axle to be rated at 2240kg with the AS air assist and 112 index tyres rather than the 2200kg said by JR.
SV Tech are more expensive at £260 plus VAT but I feel more confident with them that the information is correct.
 
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pappajohn said:
Appears to me, reading some of the replies, the wonderfully cheap JR are beginning to come unstuck at the seams.
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I think what I've said before is being proven right.

If you know exactly what you want to do, what you can do and how to do it and just need someone to sign off on the paperwork he's fine.

If you need advice or options he really doesn't have the motorhome specific knowledge to be able to help which is when he comes unstuck.



Tin hat on for this next bit.

It really does beg the question as to how many people have been uprated to too high a weight, potentially dangerously high, on the basis of his mistakes not being spotted?

If his paperwork has caused someone to be uprated beyond the safe design limits of the chassis and they're in an accident where would they stand if their insurers found out?
 
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NickNic said:
It really does beg the question as to how many people have been uprated to too high a weight, potentially dangerously high, on the basis of his mistakes not being spotted?
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I think this is a valid point.

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