Up-Rating The Hard Way

[JockandRita]

As far as I am aware, John Ruffles T/A J R Consultancy, is an approved (and appointed) consulting engineer to DVLA /DVSA. Surely they would not commission his services, unless he was qualified? ;(

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

As far as I am aware, John Ruffles T/A J R Consultancy, is an approved (and appointed) consulting engineer to DVLA /DVSA. Surely they would not commission his services, unless he was qualified? ;(

Cheers,

Jock.

They don't approve appoint or commission anyone.

SV Tech aren't approved or appointed or commissioned. DVLA and others recommend them based on reputation, nothing more.

DVLA only require that the paperwork is signed off be a suitably qualified engineer. That could be you if you could be bothered to go and get a relevant degree. You don't need to be approved by anyone.

Nobody is disputing that John Ruffles is suitably qualified. What does seem apparent from this thread is that his motorhome specific knowledge is inadequate to be offering advice.

 

[Minxy]

As far as I am aware, John Ruffles T/A J R Consultancy, is an approved (and appointed) consulting engineer to DVLA /DVSA. Surely they would not commission his services, unless he was qualified? ;(

Cheers,

Jock.

It was the DVSA who gave me a list of companies authorised to do this work in the first place and every other company on the list pointed me to John without exception.

It is down to what details he is supplied with by the enquirer that he will base his 'results' on ... if info supplied wrongly he can't be held responsible for that - not that anyone would willingly give wrong info, or that anyone HAS, but it can, and probably does, happen. I suspect that SVTech aren't perfect in this regard either.

Use who you wish, no one is making you use one over the other, its purely down to your OWN choice and who you're happy with.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

It was the DVSA who gave me a list of companies authorised to do this work in the first place and every other company on the list pointed me to John without exception.

It is down to what details he is supplied with by the enquirer that he will base his 'results' on ... if info supplied wrongly he can't be held responsible for that - not that anyone would willingly give wrong info, or that anyone HAS, but it can, and probably does, happen. I suspect that SVTech aren't perfect in this regard either.

Use who you wish, no one is making you use one over the other, its purely down to your OWN choice and who you're happy with.

It's not just bad info supplied Mel.

Take the example on this thread about the standard Al-Ko chassis. I'm sure pretty much all of us know that that particular chassis can only go to 3850kg. It's no great secret and it's a very popular chassis for motorhomes so it's not like it's something obscure.

For him to say 4200kg is just flat out wrong. There is no possible way a standard Al-Ko chassis can get to that weight. There are no excuses for getting something that basic so badly wrong.

If he's making that sort of very basic mistake it makes me wonder what else he is getting wrong through lack of motorhome specific knowledge and whether he really should be offering advice on the subject.

 

[Minxy]

It's not just bad info supplied Mel.

Take the example on this thread about the standard Al-Ko chassis. I'm sure pretty much all of us know that that particular chassis can only go to 3850kg. It's no great secret and it's a very popular chassis for motorhomes so it's not like it's something obscure.

For him to say 4200kg is just flat out wrong. There is no possible way a standard Al-Ko chassis can get to that weight. There are no excuses for getting something that basic so badly wrong.

If he's making that sort of very basic mistake it makes me wonder what else he is getting wrong through lack of motorhome specific knowledge and whether he really should be offering advice on the subject.

Speaking personally I don't know what the standard Alko chassis can go up to as I've never had one or looked to buy a MH with one so never needed to investigate so for me it IS obscure information.

When we uprated our PVC 2 years ago I sent John photos of the VIN plate, wheels/tyres with all their figures on, as well as a copy of our documents COC, V5C etc and what the it was (ie extra long wheelbase Ducato 150 on heavy Maxi chassis) including photos to prove it; I had also researched what it could go up to without modification and that's what John came back to me with.

Obviously I don't know exactly what others sent or asked specifically for and as Hettie's Crew didn't bother to wait for John to response to the 2nd email to see if he was looking into it but just in effect told him not to bother (which I personally felt was wrong as John had obviously already spent time on doing the work anyway as requested), we'll never know if John would have come back with further questions/options.

IMV for some reason Nick you have a real downer on John, you've done the same previously so I can't be bothered to keep 'nit picking' with you as you've said it all before and it gets very wearisome after a while.

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[Deleted member 29692]

IMV for some reason Nick you have a real downer on John, you've done the same previously so I can't be bothered to keep 'nit picking' with you as you've said it all before and it gets very wearisome after a while.

And likewise you appear to think he can do no wrong when that's very evidently not the case.

I'm surprised that you of all people are so adamant that all his mistakes are someone else's fault.

 

[Minxy]

And likewise you appear to think he can do no wrong when that's very evidently not the case.

I'm surprised that you of all people are so adamant that all his mistakes are someone else's fault.

Don't try to misconstrue my comments or put words into my mouth ... I'm saying any such thing ... but NO ONE has gone back and asked him for HIS side to this ... not one of them ... but some seem more than happy to slag him off! It doesn't seem to matter to you that many, many people have used his services without any problems or concerns at all.

To put it bluntly so that you know EXACTLY what my issue is ... I really DO NOT like people jumping on the band wagon and criticising when they have no personal knowledge of using his services, just like you are doing.

I'm off to bed now ... night, night ... watch out for the monsters under the bed!

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Hettie's Crew didn't bother to wait for John to response to the 2nd email to see if he was looking into it but just in effect told him not to bother (which I personally felt was wrong as John had obviously already spent time on doing the work anyway as requested), we'll never know if John would have come back with further questions/options.

What a load of twoddle, I waited five days and received no reply to a very simple question. Why should I have to ask the question in the first place, he's supposed to be 'the expert' that I'm paying for, I could have just said "thank you John please go ahead" and ended up with a light Alko chassis dangerously overloaded.
He shouldn't need to "look into it" it's a very simple uprate request.
I sent very comprehensive information to JR, including all four weight plate photos, chassis/vehicle identification, current weights, tyre size and I even said in the email that my request was to go to 3850kg or 3950kg if possible. I only mentioned 3950kg as Sv Tech said at Lincoln that they were looking into the possibility of the light Alko chassis being rated at this for the future.
I don't understand your constant defensive attitude to this, other than he was your discovery. As said above, it's concerning how many people may be running around in overloaded motor homes based on his work.
Based on my experience of using his services for something other than a straight paperwork upgrade, something you don't have, I would not recommend him to anyone.

 

[Techno]

I questioned his rear axle rating at the time over the phone . How have I got 2650 on the rear when those tires are only 1250 each?
His reply was he can make it lower if I want. I knew this would mean another delay so I said if your calculations say it’s good for 2650kg then fine.
I know it’s wrong but I will never go anywhere near that in reality, as I’ve said before I’ve never been much over 2200 fully loaded with wine and the van could not handle another 450kg even if the axle/tires could

 

[Techno]

Forgive me for saying but there is enough information in the thread for readers to form their own conclusions without there being a winner. Lets not argue

EDIT
The one good thing about John is that it broke an apparent monopoly that it seemed SvTech where acquiring . Thank you for that Mel

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[Minxy]

What a load of twoddle, I waited five days and received no reply to a very simple question. Why should I have to ask the question in the first place, he's supposed to be 'the expert' that I'm paying for, I could have just said "thank you John please go ahead" and ended up with a light Alko chassis dangerously overloaded.
He shouldn't need to "look into it" it's a very simple uprate request.
I sent very comprehensive information to JR, including all four weight plate photos, chassis/vehicle identification, current weights, tyre size and I even said in the email that my request was to go to 3850kg or 3950kg if possible. I only mentioned 3950kg as Sv Tech said at Lincoln that they were looking into the possibility of the light Alko chassis being rated at this for the future.

Not twaddle at all, he is a 'one person' business, not like SVTech who have more staff and therefore cost more ... you could have contacted him by phone, or email again to clarify however you chose not to ... he may not have replied as promptly as he did to the original email you sent him for various reasons (he moves between 2 homes), what you do NOT know is whether or not he was checking the information again so you will never know what the outcome would have been. If you read some of the info on Alko chassis pdfs they can go up to 4250kg:

http://www.al-ko.co.uk/edit/files/downloads/al-ko-amc-commercial-brochure-2010.pdf

I don't understand your constant defensive attitude to this, other than he was your discovery. As said above, it's concerning how many people may be running around in overloaded motor homes based on his work.

Yes I did 'discover' him but I never ever said he knew everything about every MH chassis only that he was another option to using the SVTech route. My attitude is not defensive for the sake of it which is what you seem to be implying but simply trying to be more reasonable than some who are making comments about this with no direct knowledge of his service or are not waiting for clarification. He may have made a mistake, he may not, we simply do not know! If you had followed through and found out it would have been more useful.

Based on my experience of using his services for something other than a straight paperwork upgrade, something you don't have, I would not recommend him to anyone.

... and you are certainly allowed to have your own view but that doesn't mean others have to have the same view.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Ex

and you are certainly allowed to have your own view but that doesn't mean others have to have the same view.

Very true

 

[Neckender]

I used JR consultancy very recently and he answered all my emails very quickly.
When the certificate came through he had my rear axle weight wrong, I contacted him and he said that he would send another correctly written out, this arrived very quickly and I’m very happy with John’s services.
The ones that are holding me up are DVLA now 4 weeks and waiting.

John.

 

[Techno]

Mine took the full 4wks so expect it shortly

 

[Hettie's Crew]

If you read some of the info on Alko chassis pdfs they can go up to 4250kg:

I have read the info. Low frame and High frame or light and heavy. There is a big difference.

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[Deleted member 29692]

If you read some of the info on Alko chassis pdfs they can go up to 4250kg

Some types can but not the standard lightweight one.

Anyone setting themselves up to do this sort of work should know that off the top of their head without needing to “look into it”

 

[Minxy]

Some types can but not the standard lightweight one.

Anyone setting themselves up to do this sort of work should know that off the top of their head without needing to “look into it”

 

[gus-lopez]

Just had confirmation from Sv Tech that, as I thought, the light Alko chassis can only go to 3850kg, not 4200kg as JR claimed. They are happy for the the rear axle to be rated at 2240kg with the AS air assist and 112 index tyres rather than the 2200kg said by JR.
SV Tech are more expensive at £260 plus VAT but I feel more confident with them that the information is correct.

If they are saying the rear can go to 2240 then what is the front as it wouldn't be a lot of use at 1610kgs , which is what is left ?
If front is rated at 2000kgs , as is usual, & svtech are stating that the back can go to either 2000 or 2240 then JR would be correct in that the chassis can be uprated to 4200kgs if that is the sum of the axles. It is always possible to uprate to exactly what the axle weights are . Might need additions , suspension, air,tyres etc.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

It is always possible to uprate to exactly what the axle weights are

No it isn’t. Often yes, always no not at all.

The standard Al-Ko can never be rated at more than 3850kg, usually 1850 front and 2000 rear.

It is possible to add more to the rear by changing tyres and suspension but the gross can never exceed 3850 no matter what you do.

 

[Techno]

I used JR consultancy very recently and he answered all my emails very quickly.
When the certificate came through he had my rear axle weight wrong, I contacted him and he said that he would send another correctly written out, this arrived very quickly and I’m very happy with John’s services.
The ones that are holding me up are DVLA now 4 weeks and waiting.

John.

Put your reg in here and you may find it has been done
https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

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[gus-lopez]

No it isn’t. Often yes, always no not at all.

The standard Al-Ko can never be rated at more than 3850kg, usually 1850 front and 2000 rear.

It is possible to add more to the rear by changing tyres and suspension but the gross can never exceed 3850 no matter what you do.

I appreciate that but why then is a light chassis being allowed to be rated at 2240kgs for the rear, leaving it seriously unbalanced if front can only be loaded to 1600? Someone will do it .
As you state 1850/2000 would be the sensible amount then it cannot have a possible 30% differencial front to rear.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Our front axle is rated at 2000kg with Goldschmitt springs, standard it is 1850kg. Our only reason for up rating is to get more on the rear as we are at 1970kg when we set off.

 

[Sue]

I had a good experience with John, but I think his communication skills are deteriorating ( perhaps due to hearing problems - his wife told me he is deaf, and certainly telephone conversations were difficult). However he responded quickly.
It is slightly worrying that his skills are being very heavily doubted by other members, and does make me feel a little ( and perhaps wrongly?) uneasy about the work he did for us.

 

[Allanm]

I’ve posted a couple of times on here about considering up plating our van using JR and am happy to say, it was completed a short while ago.
I contacted John who asked for a copy of the inside of the V5, Vin plate and converters plate, which I did. I also sent details of the tyres, which have 112/110 load ratings.
Our van has a mam of 3200kg although the vehicle is advertised by Swift as having a man of 3400kg. No revenue weight is shown on the V5 though.
Anyway, I wanted to get the van plated to 3400 but the reply I got from a JR was that I could go up to 3850.
Thinking of the ved saving, I told him to go ahead.
I got an invoice, which I paid and in my reply asked if he could send the new plate etc to my address in France.
All arrived in a few days, but the weight was as I had originally requested, 3400kg.
I don’t know if he got mixed up with another vehicle regarding the weights, but this is the only blip in the whole process.
Seems others have had this or similar blips, but I would still recommend JR, I used SVTech a few years ago at a much higher cost, but both companies achieved the same goal for me.
Just my two pennorth.

 

[Neckender]

Put your reg in here and you may find it has been done
https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

Tried that Andy and it states revenue weight 3500 so not been done as yet.

Thanks,
John.

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[Techno]

Keep checking as it will be before you get your new V5C
If you need it I would ring them. 4 weeks is the waiting time they gave me after which they said I could ring

 

[EssexBoy]

Its been stated many times by the business men amongst us of their right to do business (or not) with the general public as they wish.

Maybe John as a clearly busy man is excercising his right to give a "provisional" figure to the timewasters, then doing the full job with full evidence when the customer wants to go ahead and stumps up the readies?

 

[CazPaul]

If they are saying the rear can go to 2240 then what is the front as it wouldn't be a lot of use at 1610kgs , which is what is left ?
If front is rated at 2000kgs , as is usual, & svtech are stating that the back can go to either 2000 or 2240 then JR would be correct in that the chassis can be uprated to 4200kgs if that is the sum of the axles. It is always possible to uprate to exactly what the axle weights are . Might need additions , suspension, air,tyres etc.

No I don't think it is possible all the time to uprate to the combined axle weights unless you actually pay about 10 grand for the testing, its the brakes that are also a critical factor.

 

[Neckender]

Cheers @Techno I got my dates wrong and it’s only 4 weeks tomorrow, and today I’ve been on the Tax Vehicle website and my van is now listed as 4100KG.

John.

 

[Rds559]

Cheap Is Not Always Best.

A timeline of my PVC up-rate thus far and I'm not best pleased.

22/04 Emailed John Ruffles Consultancy asking them to do the up-rate and providing the fact that I was on the XL chassis, with Al-Kober Air Tops and tyres load rated to 118, all of which would allow me to go to 4500kg max wt and increase my rear axle to 2600kg.

I asked JRC to confirm that I could go to those weights, asked their cost and also what they needed from me to get the ball rolling.

24/04 Received email confirmation from JR that my van is the right spec to go to the weights I previously quoted and to proceed, I was required to send a copy of page 2 of my V5 and an image of my VIN plate.

Sent the images and paid the fee.

05/05 Called home and found JR had sent out my new VIN and certificate, but had not increased the rear axle weight as previously discussed. Sent Email to JRC to explain this.

06/05. Received email from JR and I quote "YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT READ MY EMAIL OF 27/4 WHEN I ADVISED YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO EXCEED THE MANUFACTURERS AXLE WEIGHT WITHOUT SOME FORM OF MODIFICATION, SUCH AS AIR ASSIST"

Ah ! So it's my fault, because I didn't read an email that I never got, purportedly dated 27/04, three days after I'd already had confirmation from JR that my van had the requisite mods and we could proceed.

07/05 Emailed JR to advise of the above and politely asked that he carefully re-read my initial email, where I confirm all of the mods.

Later that day I received an email from JR, in which he says he missed the fact that I had Air Tops fitted (which is at odds with his email of 24/04) and apologised for that mistake, but continued "MAYBE I WOULD NOT HAVE MISSED IT HAD I HAD SIGHT OF THE ALKO PLATE"

Ah ! So it's still my fault, because I sent JR precisely what he asked for when I initially asked what he needed from me to proceed, when in fact I should have guessed that he had actually not asked for everything he needed.... my bad !

Anyway, he said he would make it his first job on Monday.

16/05 Returned home and found JR had rectified his mistake and had sent me a new VIN plate with the correct weights this time and also a new certificate, nicely laminated, but crucially missing JR's signature and date of signing.
Not wanting to have to email JR again and knowing the answer before I rang them, I checked with DVLA to see if they would accept the certificate as it was, but they confirmed that it is an official document and it was vital that I send a signed and dated certificate.

Later that day I advised JR by email of his omission and third time lucky, a third certificate has arrived today and it is correct, but no explanation or offer of apology for sending out an unsigned certificate.

I appreciate that even Engineers have bad days and obviously make mistakes, but to lay the blame for those mistakes firmly at your customer's door and accuse your customer of not reading emails correctly, when your customer has read every email and done everything you asked of them, is not professional and has left a bit of a bad taste and me wishing I'd paid the extra money and gone to SVTech.

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