Unladen weight for speed limit purposes

[swemmy666]

Am I right in think the unladed weight for speed limit purposes is the MIRO, minus the following items?

• Mass of unladen vehicle including tyre mobility system and onboard tool set.
• Driver’s weight allowance of 75kg.
• Fuel tank filled up to 90%.
• 16kg allowance for gas cylinders.
• 20% full fresh water tank and water system.
• 100% full boiler.
• Mains electric cable.

 

[Orion]

……….. you write politely to the issuing Police Force with proof of your compliance with the definition of motor caravan (NOT necessarily on the V5) and proof of unladen weight no more than 3,050KG, and they will acknowledge and cancel the ticket.

I’d go a further than that and request them to prove that my ULW was higher than 3,050kg if they didn’t cancel after pointing out it was a MH.

(Think I’m going a bit gus-lopez there for a minute!).

 

[Orion]

why would the camera flash if you were within the national speed limits, and what would be proof of unladen weight, given that neither the DVLA or the manufacture provide it?

It does happen ……. sort of, but not fixed cameras.

We have been running Peugeot Partner vans at work and as they are not ‘Car Derived Vans’ are subject to the commercial vehicle speed limits, (despite being piddling little things!). Twice our lads have been camera gunned at 60+ mph on an otherwise 70 mph local dual carriageway. So there must be something in the database that can differentiate - and algorithms to make use of it!

 

[L' Hobo]

I haven't read all the thread but it's interesting that in just over 24hrs, 62 people appear to have 62 different ideas of the speed limit?

 

[Pausim]

Unladen weight is were on plate?

What is enforceable? A weight which you pluck from the atmosphere (unladen weight)or a stamped legal plate which every vehicle has.

I have an opinion which I still stand by and I'm quite happy to drive at my advised speeds.
I guess we are still at that position where people are still confused.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion but the rest of us are perfectly entitled to correct misinformation. We are discussing UK rules which clearly state that 3.05 max unladen weight applies to motorhomes and motor caravans. The only confusion is that unladen weight is not shown on the V5C.

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[dunnah01]

I haven't read all the thread but it's interesting that in just over 24hrs, 62 people appear to have 62 different ideas of the speed limit?

I think 61 people agree on speed limits and 1 has a different opinion

 

[CAB96]

why would the camera flash if you were within the national speed limits, and what would be proof of unladen weight, given that neither the DVLA or the manufacture provide it?

As Orion says.

You have a panel van conversion.

Camera sees you doing 60 on a single carriageway (or 70 on a dual).

ANPR links to the DVLA database, sees you are a 'van with windows', or N1, or PLG or PHGV (however it is they do it) rather than a 'motor caravan'.

Automatically sends a ticket.

I do not know if vehicles with motor caravan on the V5 would be excluded at this point, I presume if you are M1 then also you would be excluded.

But it is the case, that many owners of campervans based on commercial vehicles have had tickets, and also have had them rescinded.

 

[L' Hobo]

As Orion says.

You have a panel van conversion.

Camera sees you doing 60 on a single carriageway (or 70 on a dual).

ANPR links to the DVLA database, sees you are a 'van with windows', or N1, or PLG or PHGV (however it is they do it) rather than a 'motor caravan'.

Automatically sends a ticket.

I do not know if vehicles with motor caravan on the V5 would be excluded at this point, I presume if you are M1 then also you would be excluded.

But it is the case, that many owners of campervans based on commercial vehicles have had tickets, and also have had them rescinded.

I got my 2007 Ducato reregistered when I bought it in 2017 from a PLG to a Motorcaravan on my V5.
(I couldn't believe that Murvi, with the prices they charge, had not already done so?)

I often travel at max speed limits for cars and have never picked up a ticket.

 

[bigtwin]

why would the camera flash if you were within the national speed limits, and what would be proof of unladen weight, given that neither the DVLA or the manufacture provide it?

Well, it’s only relevant if you aren’t exceeding the higher of the two speed limits.

Ian

 

[CAB96]

I got my 2007 Ducato reregistered when I bought it in 2017 from a PLG to a Motorcaravan on my V5.
(I couldn't believe that Murvi, with the prices they charge, had not already done so?)

I often travel at max speed limits for cars and have never picked up a ticket.

And quite rightly so.

I don't know how the ticketing interacts with the DVLA database, only that the automatic ANPR speed cameras do reference it.

Presumably if it says 'motor caravan' then it doesn't generate a ticket, even though the database doesn't record the Unladen Weight, but that's just my speculation.

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[Hoovie]

This is an interesting question and the answer is actually not as simple as it may seem and people have stated.

Firstly, the Speed Limit for Motorhomes in the UK is absolutely based on ULW and nothing to do with GVW or the numbers on the VIN plate. Everyone who has said that is quite correct and anyone who says it is down to the GVW is misguided.
For this reason, when I converted my 4600Kg Minibus into a Camper, as soon as I got my V5C showing it was now a Motor Caravan, I went to a weighbridge and got a weight ticket showing my weight (think 2870Kg or something? under 3050Kg anyway). That way if a prosecution was attempted as I went at car speeds in my 4600Kg van I could prove my ULW was under 3050Kg and the Authorities could not disprove it in any way.

HOWEVER .... Speed Limits are actually determined by the USE of the vehicle when it comes to Motor Caravans. If say you use your Motorhome to go to Car Boot sales and Antique Fairs as a trader, then you are using as a commercial vehicle on that journey and limited to standard van speeds. Chances of being caught out in this way is pretty remote, especially with 'safety' cameras, but pulled over by a physical policeman and there is a possibility.

 

[Orion]

This is an interesting question and the answer is actually not as simple as it may seem and people have stated.

Firstly, the Speed Limit for Motorhomes in the UK is absolutely based on ULW and nothing to do with GVW or the numbers on the VIN plate. Everyone who has said that is quite correct and anyone who says it is down to the GVW is misguided.
For this reason, when I converted my 4600Kg Minibus into a Camper, as soon as I got my V5C showing it was now a Motor Caravan, I went to a weighbridge and got a weight ticket showing my weight (think 2870Kg or something? under 3050Kg anyway). That way if a prosecution was attempted as I went at car speeds in my 4600Kg van I could prove my ULW was under 3050Kg and the Authorities could not disprove it in any way.

HOWEVER .... Speed Limits are actually determined by the USE of the vehicle when it comes to Motor Caravans. If say you use your Motorhome to go to Car Boot sales and Antique Fairs as a trader, then you are using as a commercial vehicle on that journey and limited to standard van speeds. Chances of being caught out in this way is pretty remote, especially with 'safety' cameras, but pulled over by a physical policeman and there is a possibility.

Absolutely correct as per the .gov.uk speed limits link I’ve posted further up the thread:

Motorhomes​

Motorhomes or motor caravans are classed as goods vehicles if they:

• carry goods for exhibition and sale
• are used as a workshop
• are used for storage.

Good to point out, but for Joe Bloggs and the missus going about their normal motorhoming activity I think we can (nearly) all agree to the first part of your post?

 

[gus-lopez]

my v5 shows miro as 2810 with a gvw at 3500k

So the ULW would be under 3050 which means car speed limits

But from a point of view from the law?? can they and/or will they do me??

No.If you get a ticket ,highly unlikely, you send it back pointing out you are under 3050 kgs ULW

But which factory?? Fiat or Carthago??

It is always the manufacturer

In that case it’s just the front running gear then as it’s an a class

Yes that is correct

You will prosecuted on plated weight. If you drive a solo lorry tractor unit plated at 44t over 7.5t weight limit, you are prosecuted at 44t even though you have no load or trailer on attached.

They might try,like they used to with empty 3500kg trailer on back of a car/van rated atnly 2tonne towing capacity bit it is & always was, b*****ks. It ios the ACTUAL weight.Nothing else counts regardless of what they say

Does the unladen weight stay the same even if you have up plated?

Yes as it is the weight of the vehicle leaving the assembly line devoid even of fuel

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.

No it doesn't it only ever depends on the ACTUAL Weight

Forget the unladen weight.

Which is what UK speed limits are based on even when the figure is not shown on any paperwork- The ULW can always be given by the manufacturer if you ever need it in court

However, if you have light commercial adaptation at 3500kg and you haven't re-registered motorhome conversion, you have 30, 50 & 70

No , as said all you have to do is reply that the vehicle is a motorhome or converted to a camper & that its use is as such & the ticket will be rescinded. Many have done it

If I drive this empty lorry over 18t weight restriction, I will be stopped and prosecuted!

Only if it weighs over 18T. If not you have been scammed by unknowledgable tW***S

Officer, my unladen weight is 17ton!

yes along with "learn the law .The weight is what it actually weighs ,nothing else"

You get clocked at 60mph on single carriageway with national speed limit in a van conversion not registered at Swansea, you will get a ticket.

& as above you tell them it is a converted campervan & used as such & is allowed to travel at the higher vehicle speeds. Dozens have used it to have tickets rescinded.

You maybe willing to "argue the toss", but in a country that doesn't speak your language, then your be pulling out the wallet for the fine.

We are talking about the UK .In Europe & where I live in Spain the limit is completely different & is just as complicated as if you "camperise" a van ,like I have done totally legally & with all details on the log book the speed limit for the vehicle remains the same as it was for it as a van 90kph the same as any hGV , & which most people do not even realise.

In this country, you have the opportunity to appear in court.

You do here.

. I'm sorry you don't like the answer.

I'm sorry that you are wrong.

Unladen weight is were on plate?

It isn't but that does not mean it doesn't exist.It does & is always available from the manufacturer.
The uk limits are actually nonsensical being based on a weight that is rarely shown in the UK but in the eu is on all documents

I guess we are still at that position where people are still confused.

No you are incorrect .

When you are caught by a camera (who are using the DVLA database, 'cos that's the only one there is, even though it is incomplete in this respect), then you write politely to the issuing Police Force with proof of your compliance with the definition of motor caravan (NOT necessarily on the V5) and proof of unladen weight no more than 3,050KG, and they will acknowledge and cancel the ticket.

Yes, it's a mess.

But that is the reality.

THis^^^^^^^^^^^^

or the manufacture provide it?

^they can if asked.They supply it for spanish vehicles

 

[KASPAR]

We are on adventure, not a timetable when out in our MH. No need to worry about getting done as we go at our own pace, legally.

Currently re-plating back to original ex works 4200Kg, changing to PHGV with Mass in service 2955Kg

We even tell other road users:

 

[gpat]

Unladen is effectively the weight as it rolled out of the factory.
MIRO (mass in running order) would be the weight it emerged from the converters workshop

Im not sure that's right. The unladeb weight is what it comes out if the worship at. The MIRO is with typical extra items like fuel, people, water in tank. AFAIK. I thought the MIRO was just the manufactures estimate of why would be in the van as a minimum so you could calculate the payload. Might be wrong

Anyway, for the purpose of speed limits, the MIRO is irrelevant. Only the plated unladen weight is relevant.

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[Orion]

Anyway, for the purpose of speed limits, the MIRO is irrelevant. Only the plated unladen weight is relevant.

There is no ‘plated’ ULW weight though - GVW, axles and train.

 

[gpat]

There is no ‘plated’ ULW weight though - GVW, axles and train.

Oh!

 

[Pausim]

I do not know if vehicles with motor caravan on the V5 would be excluded at this point, I presume if you are M1 then also you would be excluded.

My last 3 motorhomes have all said motor caravan on the V5C and the latest one also says M1. Three years ago I passed a camera trap van at 60 mph on a single carriageway road and did not get a ticket, presumably the ANPR quickly eliminated my vehicle as a motor caravan.

 

[WESTY66]

My V5 says motor caravan and also PHGV with a revenue weight of 5000kg with NO ULW on V5, so I’m good to zip along at 70 on motorway, 70 on dual carriage way and 60 on National speed limit single carriage way?? Right???

 

[VXman]

Yes as it is the weight of the vehicle leaving the assembly line devoid even of fuel

So, it doesn't matter what your plated weight is (3500, 4250, 5000, etc) if your unladen weight at manufacture is 3.05 Tonne or less 'normal' speed limits apply?

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[L' Hobo]

So, it doesn't matter what your plated weight is (3500, 4250, 5000, etc) if your unladen weight at manufacture is 3.05 Tonne or less 'normal' speed limits apply?

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IF that is an OFFICIAL Government publication, That is what it appears to say, I THINK? the operative word is MOTOR CARAVAN
As far as I am aware, the DVLA doesn't recognise the word MOTORHOME?

PS. Just checked ULW with my old TRUCK Transport Managers manual and it states:

The ULW is the weight of the vehicle including body and parts. Minus weight of water,fuel, loose tools and equipment and batteries where they are used for propelling the vehicle.?

 

[Phill D]

So, it doesn't matter what your plated weight is (3500, 4250, 5000, etc) if your unladen weight at manufacture is 3.05 Tonne or less 'normal' speed limits apply?

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That is uk, its gross weight in Europe

 

[Phill D]

IF that is an OFFICIAL Government publication, That is what it appears to say, I THINK? the operative word is MOTOR CARAVAN
As far as I am aware, the DVLA doesn't recognise the word MOTORHOME?

PS. I was under the impression that the converters unladen weight which should be the last plate attached, includes some fuel, water and 75kg of driver not straight from the assembly line from the vehicle manufacturer?

The unladen weight is not on any plate or the normal weight plate on a vehicle.

Unladen means nothing added or attached, the bare vehicle after manufacture

 

[L' Hobo]

The unladen weight is not on any plate or the normal weight plate on a vehicle.

Unladen means nothing added or attached, the bare vehicle after manufacture

See edit to original post.

 

[Orion]

So, it doesn't matter what your plated weight is (3500, 4250, 5000, etc) if your unladen weight at manufacture is 3.05 Tonne or less 'normal' speed limits apply?

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View attachment 951581

Yes, that’s correct.

IF that is an OFFICIAL Government publication, That is what it appears to say, I THINK? the operative word is MOTOR CARAVAN
As far as I am aware, the DVLA doesn't recognise the word MOTORHOME?

It is. Here’s the complete information:

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

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[L' Hobo]

Strange, as all my PSV's had to show the ULW printed on the N/S bodywork?

 

[Phill D]

Strange, as all my PSV's had to show the ULW printed on the N/S bodywork?

That’s a requirement of all Public Service Vehicles.
Not a requirement for private use vehicles.

 

[L' Hobo]

That’s a requirement of all Public Service Vehicles.
Not a requirement for private use vehicles.

I know, not even HGV's, just seems......an anomaly? Why?

 

[The Wino]

It's a bonkers way to have a different speed limit it should be either reg 3500 all up or less or above

 

[VXman]

My V5 shows 'mass in service' at 3025. Not sure if this is a typo or official. A couple of questions here:

1. What is 'mass in service' and how does it relate to 'unladen weight'

2. Can I drive at 70 or not?

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[swemmy666]

"
My V5 shows 'mass in service' at 3025. Not sure if this is a typo or official. A couple of questions here:

1. What is 'mass in service' and how does it relate to 'unladen weight'

2. Can I drive at 70 or not?"

Think that is the MIRO, which suggests your unladen is well below the 3050KG limit for national speed limits to apply

the second question depends on your MTPLM, if its 3500Kg or less than you can drive with the B class, if its above you will need the health check and C1

[ THE MIRO is:

• Mass of unladen vehicle including tyre mobility system and onboard tool set.
• Driver’s weight allowance of 75kg.
• Fuel tank filled up to 90%.
• 16kg allowance for gas cylinders.
• 20% full fresh water tank and water system.
• 100% full boiler.
• Mains electric cable.
  ]