Unladen weight for speed limit purposes

[swemmy666]

Am I right in think the unladed weight for speed limit purposes is the MIRO, minus the following items?

• Mass of unladen vehicle including tyre mobility system and onboard tool set.
• Driver’s weight allowance of 75kg.
• Fuel tank filled up to 90%.
• 16kg allowance for gas cylinders.
• 20% full fresh water tank and water system.
• 100% full boiler.
• Mains electric cable.

 

[WESTY66]

Great, another way of completely confusing me over this weight thing.

Unless your unladen weight is on your V5 it seems nothing is crystal clear regarding the law or any prosecutions

 

[Lenny HB]

Unless your unladen weight is on your V5 it seems nothing is crystal clear regarding the law or any prosecutions

V5 only has Mass in Service not the Unladen Weight, only the converter/manufacturer can give you that. Charthago give both Unladen weight and MIRO.

 

[swemmy666]

Unless your unladen weight is on your V5 it seems nothing is crystal clear regarding the law or any prosecutions

If the MIRO is close, then the 75Kg driver will be sufficent to "prove" that its less than 3050kg limit

 

[VXman]

Does the unladen weight stay the same even if you have up plated?

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[A-Mech]

I don't understand. The question posted was, unladen weight for speed limit purposes.

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.
Forget the unladen weight. It's about when you will be prosecuted?

If you have a MH which plated weight is 3500kg, then normal car driving speed limits apply. It doesn't matter what load weight, as it may only weigh 3000kg.
Its 30, 60 & 70 depending on signs and carriageway your on.

However, if you have light commercial adaptation at 3500kg and you haven't re-registered motorhome conversion, you have 30, 50 & 70

50mph for light commercial on single carriageway national speed limit.
60mph for MH

If you MH is plated above 3501kg your limits are 30, 50 & 70

If MH above 7500kg and not for hire or reward (hire vehicle) you are at 30, 50 & limited to 60mph with no normal driving in lane 3.

 

[WESTY66]

I don't understand. The question posted was, unladen weight for speed limit purposes.

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.
Forget the unladen weight. It's about when you will be prosecuted?

If you have a MH which plated weight is 3500kg, then normal car driving speed limits apply. It doesn't matter what load weight, as it may only weigh 3000kg.
Its 30, 60 & 70 depending on signs and carriageway your on.

However, if you have light commercial adaptation at 3500kg and you haven't re-registered motorhome conversion, you have 30, 50 & 70

50mph for light commercial on single carriageway national speed limit.
60mph for MH

If you MH is plated above 3501kg your limits are 30, 50 & 70

If MH above 7500kg and not for hire or reward (hire vehicle) you are at 30, 50 & limited to 60mph with no normal driving in lane 3.

I think you maybe wrong, it’s all about the unladen weight being over 3050kg and whether the authorities can determine that ULW if you don’t have it on your V5

 

[68c]

I don't understand. The question posted was, unladen weight for speed limit purposes.

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.
Forget the unladen weight. It's about when you will be prosecuted?

If you have a MH which plated weight is 3500kg, then normal car driving speed limits apply. It doesn't matter what load weight, as it may only weigh 3000kg.
Its 30, 60 & 70 depending on signs and carriageway your on.

However, if you have light commercial adaptation at 3500kg and you haven't re-registered motorhome conversion, you have 30, 50 & 70

50mph for light commercial on single carriageway national speed limit.
60mph for MH

If you MH is plated above 3501kg your limits are 30, 50 & 70

If MH above 7500kg and not for hire or reward (hire vehicle) you are at 30, 50 & limited to 60mph with no normal driving in lane 3.

I think you are wrong. Nothing to do with the max permissable weight. Only the unladen weight, the only true way to know that is to weigh it empty. Of course the problem is 'what is empty'? Do you include the solar panel, bike rack, sat nav, second hab battery etc that you added after it left the converter?

To quote the DVLA

Unladen weight​

The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.

It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.

It does not include the weight of:

• fuel
• batteries in an electric vehicle - unless it’s a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair

 

[68c]

I don't understand. The question posted was, unladen weight for speed limit purposes.

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.
Forget the unladen weight. It's about when you will be prosecuted?

If you have a MH which plated weight is 3500kg, then normal car driving speed limits apply. It doesn't matter what load weight, as it may only weigh 3000kg.
Its 30, 60 & 70 depending on signs and carriageway your on.

However, if you have light commercial adaptation at 3500kg and you haven't re-registered motorhome conversion, you have 30, 50 & 70

50mph for light commercial on single carriageway national speed limit.
60mph for MH

If you MH is plated above 3501kg your limits are 30, 50 & 70

If MH above 7500kg and not for hire or reward (hire vehicle) you are at 30, 50 & limited to 60mph with no normal driving in lane

Am I right in think the unladed weight for speed limit purposes is the MIRO, minus the following items?

• Mass of unladen vehicle including tyre mobility system and onboard tool set.
• Driver’s weight allowance of 75kg.
• Fuel tank filled up to 90%.
• 16kg allowance for gas cylinders.
• 20% full fresh water tank and water system.
• 100% full boiler.
• Mains electric cable.

I suggest you Google DVLA Unladen Wieght.

All this 20% stuff etc has nothing to do with unladen weight and it's impact on speed limit. It would benefit most of the other folk who posted to do likewise, if only for their own protection.

 

[Lenny HB]

Does the unladen weight stay the same even if you have up plated?

Yes.

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[CAB96]

I don't understand. The question posted was, unladen weight for speed limit purposes.

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.
Forget the unladen weight. It's about when you will be prosecuted?

If you have a MH which plated weight is 3500kg, then normal car driving speed limits apply. It doesn't matter what load weight, as it may only weigh 3000kg.
Its 30, 60 & 70 depending on signs and carriageway your on.

However, if you have light commercial adaptation at 3500kg and you haven't re-registered motorhome conversion, you have 30, 50 & 70

50mph for light commercial on single carriageway national speed limit.
60mphas for MH

If you MH is plated above 3501kg your limits are 30, 50 & 70

If MH above 7500kg and not for hire or reward (hire vehicle) you are at 30, 50 & limited to 60mph with no normal driving in lane 3.

You don't have to reregister it as a motor caravan.

As long as you meet the definition, you are a motor caravan.

 

[Detnor]

This has made me look at the certificates on my van, not something I've looked into.
The mercedes certificate has a minimum mass of the vehicle after completion
and the hymer cofc has a mass ready to drive and a mass in driving condition both under 3000kg, the last one is the weight it arrived at the dealers ( weighbridge cert from the dealer near enough), again under 3500kg.

No idea which one would be the legal weight for UK speed limits, I just stick to the over 3500kg speeds as plated over 3500kg.

 

[Orion]

I don't understand. The question posted was, unladen weight for speed limit purposes.

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.
Forget the unladen weight. It's about when you will be prosecuted?

If you MH is plated above 3501kg your limits are 30, 50 & 70

No, it’s irrelevant if the MH taxation class is PLG or PHGV, nor is the associated plated weight necessarily relevant, it all depends on the unladen weight with regard to speed limits.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

No mention of the 3500kg above/below taxation class for a MH, just the ULW being less or more than 3.05 tonnes. Not many manufacturers will provide ULW figure but the CoC for our Adria Compact shows MIRO of 2773kg and Actual Mass of the Vehicle (as it left the factory with options) of 3018kg. We have up plated to 4250kg, so have a theoretical payload of above 1000kg but the original 3018kg hasn’t altered, so I’m quite happy to run at the higher speed limits and argue the toss - in the very unlikely event it’s ever questioned.

 

[A-Mech]

Tell that to speed camera van that will see registration number and records shows light goods vehicle.

I think you are wrong. Nothing to do with the max permissable weight. Only the unladen weight, the only true way to know that is to weigh it empty. Of course the problem is 'what is empty'? Do you include the solar panel, bike rack, sat nav, second hab battery etc that you added after it left the converter?

To quote the DVLA

Unladen weight​

The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.

It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.

It does not include the weight of:

• fuel
• batteries in an electric vehicle - unless it’s a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair

On your mh registration plate does it show unladen weight?


It will show plated weights and these are the road speeds that goven your vehicle.
The vehicle plate doesn't care and doesn't change whether you are fully loaded or have a packet of crisps in the back.

If I drive this empty lorry over 18t weight restriction, I will be stopped and prosecuted!

Officer, my unladen weight is 17ton!

This confusion is caused by people wishing they had more pay load.

I am very sorry, but you are wrong.

 

[Orion]

No idea which one would be the legal weight for UK speed limits, I just stick to the over 3500kg speeds as plated over 3500kg.

There is no ‘over 3500kg’ speed limit for MH though and never has been, (in the U.K. at least), the deciding factor is the 3.05 tonne ULW.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

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[68c]

Tell that to speed camera van that will see registration number and records shows light goods vehicle.


On your mh registration plate does it show unladen weight?


It will show plated weights and these are the road speeds that goven your vehicle.
The vehicle plate doesn't care and doesn't change whether you are fully loaded or have a packet of crisps in the back.
View attachment 951142


If I drive this empty lorry over 18t weight restriction, I will be stopped and prosecuted!

Officer, my unladen weight is 17ton!

View attachment 951143

This confusion is caused by people wishing they had more pay load.

I am very sorry, but you are wrong.

Do not think I am wrong. Speed limits are only determined by the unladen weight. Or at least that is what the DVLA says.
The huge elephant in the room is the difficulty in knowing what that unladen is, it seems very few converters supply this information. Equally how would the authorities determine your unladen weigh using only, possibly incomplete, date supplied by the DVLA.
I just weighed the van empty, came in at 3,000kg +/- 20kg so I feel happy to use the higher speed limit.
This whole business needs a review, but who will do it. Certainly not the industry as they do not want this knowledge easily available as it could affect sales, " Sorry, you cannot drive your 200hp van at 70mph". I suppose it will take the death of many people in some horric motorhome weight related accident to sort this nonsense out.

 

[Emmit]

I think you maybe wrong, it’s all about the unladen weight being over 3050kg and whether the authorities can determine that ULW if you don’t have it on your V5

I'll go further.
A-Mech is wrong.

Orion and 68c have it correct.

 

[Lenny HB]

The mercedes certificate has a minimum mass of the vehicle after completion

That is before the conversion so irelavant

It will show plated weights and these are the road speeds that goven your vehicle.

Nothing to do with plated weight, speed limit is governed by unladen weight which very few converters give.

 

[A-Mech]

No, it’s irrelevant if the MH taxation class is PLG or PHGV, nor is the associated plated weight necessarily relevant, it all depends on the unladen weight with regard to speed limits.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

No mention of the 3500kg above/below taxation class for a MH, just the ULW being less or more than 3.05 tonnes. Not many manufacturers will provide ULW figure but the CoC for our Adria Compact shows MIRO of 2773kg and Actual Mass of the Vehicle (as it left the factory with options) of 3018kg. We have up plated to 4250kg, so have a theoretical payload of above 1000kg but the original 3018kg hasn’t altered, so I’m quite happy to run at the higher speed limits and argue the toss - in the very unlikely event it’s ever questioned.

Using link supplied by you.

"Goods vehicles (not more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight)"

(Light commercial / plg)
30, 50, 70mph

Mh as car 30, 60, 70

You get clocked at 60mph on single carriageway with national speed limit in a van conversion not registered at Swansea, you will get a ticket.

You maybe willing to "argue the toss", but in a country that doesn't speak your language, then your be pulling out the wallet for the fine. In this country, you have the opportunity to appear in court.

I'm just answering the original question on speeds. I'm sorry you don't like the answer.

 

[Stoosal]

I don't understand. The question posted was, unladen weight for speed limit purposes.

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.
Forget the unladen weight. It's about when you will be prosecuted?

If you have a MH which plated weight is 3500kg, then normal car driving speed limits apply. It doesn't matter what load weight, as it may only weigh 3000kg.
Its 30, 60 & 70 depending on signs and carriageway your on.

However, if you have light commercial adaptation at 3500kg and you haven't re-registered motorhome conversion, you have 30, 50 & 70

50mph for light commercial on single carriageway national speed limit.
60mph for MH

If you MH is plated above 3501kg your limits are 30, 50 & 70

If MH above 7500kg and not for hire or reward (hire vehicle) you are at 30, 50 & limited to 60mph with no normal driving in lane 3.

I’m afraid you are incorrect. A motorhome plated to 3501kgs with an unladen weight of 3050kgs or less and used as a motorhome is subject to national speed limits.

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[Lenny HB]

"Goods vehicles (not more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight)"

(Light commercial / plg)
30, 50, 70mph

Mh as car 30, 60, 70

That is incorrect.

 

[Orion]

Using link supplied by you.

"Goods vehicles (not more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight)"

(Light commercial / plg)
30, 50, 70mph

Mh as car 30, 60, 70

No, it’s not MH ‘as car’, it’s a MH (not a goods vehicle not more than 7.5 tonnes MLW) with a ULW of sub 3.05 tonnes. And it’s quite common for them to be registered as PHGV as the taxation class.

You get clocked at 60mph on single carriageway with national speed limit in a van conversion not registered at Swansea, you will get a ticket.

That’s not the case. See the post #40 by CAB96 above. It doesn’t have to be registered as a Motor Caravan provided it is used as such. Anyway where were van conversions mentioned in the OP or elsewhere?

You maybe willing to "argue the toss", but in a country that doesn't speak your language, then your be pulling out the wallet for the fine. In this country, you have the opportunity to appear in court.

I specifically said ‘in the U.K.’ in my post. When abroad I observe the speed limits applicable to my vehicle.

I'm just answering the original question on speeds. I'm sorry you don't like the answer.

But you’re not because you’ve introduced irrelevant information relating to goods vehicles, not vehicles being used as motor caravans.

 

[bigtwin]

That depends on your vehicles plated weight.

Not for a motorhome it doesn’t.

Forget the unladen weight.

At your peril.

It will show plated weights and these are the road speeds that goven your vehicle.
The vehicle plate doesn't care and doesn't change whether you are fully loaded or have a packet of crisps in the back.

What you say is true for commercial vehicles but is untrue when it comes to motorhomes; motorhomes are unique in that respect. Orion has already posted the relevant link to the .gov.uk site that shows the the defining criterion for determining motorhome speed limits is the UNLADEN weight for which the threshold is 3.05 tonnes.

Ian

 

[Barti Ddu]

I'm just answering the original question on speeds. I'm sorry you don't like the answer.

I think people don't like your answer, because unfortunately it's incorrect.

All the other contributors to this thread have got the right answer, and some even helpfully linked to the government website confirming as such.

 

[A-Mech]

Unladen weight is were on plate?

What is enforceable? A weight which you pluck from the atmosphere (unladen weight)or a stamped legal plate which every vehicle has.

I have an opinion which I still stand by and I'm quite happy to drive at my advised speeds.
I guess we are still at that position where people are still confused.

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[Stoosal]

Unladen weight is were on plate?

What is enforceable? A weight which you pluck from the atmosphere (unladen weight)or a stamped legal plate which every vehicle has.

I have an opinion which I still stand by and I'm quite happy to drive at my advised speeds.
I guess we are still at that position where people are still confused.

You are entitled to your opinion. The law states a fact which is correct. It is a well known fact on this forum as well but……up to you.

 

[bigtwin]

I have an opinion which I still stand by and I'm quite happy to drive at my advised speeds.

Did you read the information in Orion ’s link?

You can believe what you like but it’s there in black and white from a government source.

Ian

 

[Orion]

Unladen weight is were on plate?

Nowhere, as everyone who has looked into the subject is fully aware.

What is enforceable?

By who, for what, and how? Travelling overweight possibly, speeding no.

A weight which you pluck from the atmosphere (unladen weight)or a stamped legal plate which every vehicle has.

Which has zero relevance for ascertaining the speed limits for Motorhomes - an M1 class passenger vehicle - not a goods vehicle irrespective of being PHGV revenue class.

I have an opinion which I still stand by and I'm quite happy to drive at my advised speeds.
I guess we are still at that position where people are still confused.

No confusion here or elsewhere judging by the consensus of opinion, but you carry on - just be aware that the official links don’t confirm that.

 

[CAB96]

Tell that to speed camera van that will see registration number and records shows light goods vehicle.


On your mh registration plate does it show unladen weight?


It will show plated weights and these are the road speeds that goven your vehicle.
The vehicle plate doesn't care and doesn't change whether you are fully loaded or have a packet of crisps in the back.
View attachment 951142


If I drive this empty lorry over 18t weight restriction, I will be stopped and prosecuted!

Officer, my unladen weight is 17ton!

View attachment 951143

This confusion is caused by people wishing they had more pay load.

I am very sorry, but you are wrong.

When you are caught by a camera (who are using the DVLA database, 'cos that's the only one there is, even though it is incomplete in this respect), then you write politely to the issuing Police Force with proof of your compliance with the definition of motor caravan (NOT necessarily on the V5) and proof of unladen weight no more than 3,050KG, and they will acknowledge and cancel the ticket.

Yes, it's a mess.

But that is the reality.

 

[gilbaro]

I had to check as it has been a while since I was involved in this sort of stuff.
The govt web site is fairly clear that it is based on unladen weight 3.05 tonnes

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

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[swemmy666]

When you are caught by a camera (who are using the DVLA database, 'cos that's the only one there is, even though it is incomplete in this respect), then you write politely to the issuing Police Force with proof of your compliance with the definition of motor caravan (NOT necessarily on the V5) and proof of unladen weight no more than 3,050KG, and they will acknowledge and cancel the ticket.

Yes, it's a mess.

But that is the reality.

why would the camera flash if you were within the national speed limits, and what would be proof of unladen weight, given that neither the DVLA or the manufacture provide it?