UK power generation and powering our Motorhomes.

[swemmy666]

The photo shows mainly cooling towers... hence, steam... not smoke!

Sorry, my mistake, I thought that gas and coal fired powered stations produced greenhouse gases and were bad for the environment. You learn something every day!

 

[Ray-Vic]

One energy storage technology, well proven that in suprised we hear less about, especially given our islands great natural resource, is hydroelectric (and rain). Suitable sites must exist, after all we do have mountains and valleys in the UK. And I do like a spot of sailing

There are more than 1,500 hydroelectric plants in the UK. It isn't a new technology and has been around since the 1870's. However, since the requirement for alternative energy sources has been at the forefront, certainly for the last 20 years or so, there has been significant development in this area. Some of the stations are developing huge outputs.

One of the biggest constraints to developing these schemes on a large scale is the almost prohibitive costs of the environmental impact surveys which need to be undertaken for licenses to be granted, and the time taken to complete them.

 

[Peter Clark]

In very simple terms - from everything I have read:

Britain has the physical and practical capability to generate 99% of power needs from wind and solar.

This will take an unnecessarily long time to achieve because of public and political resistance.

 

[swemmy666]

Is the best we can hope for, the turning of agriculture acreage into fields of battery and energy conversion plant? It does seem an improvement over the likes of coal power at least. I just wonder about the sustainability of lithium batteries, the supply chain, recycling, and the grip on global battery production that the Chinese state has, and whether we may one day regret funding their war machine.

Through the lense of reduced UK CO2 emissions alone, it is hard to justify against battery storage right now.

One energy storage technology, well proven that in suprised we hear less about, especially given our islands great natural resource, is hydroelectric (and rain). Suitable sites must exist, after all we do have mountains and valleys in the UK. And I do like a spot of sailing

Battery recycling technology is advancing fast:

Altilium - Sustainable, low carbon battery materials

Sustainable, low carbon battery materials. Altilium is a UK-based clean technology group supporting the transformation of the global energy sector from fossil-based to zero-carbon.

altilium.tech

 

[Jerrywh]

I have always believed in a dual fuel situation for heating the house.
Without heat it is impossible to live for more than a couple of days in a typical UK house in the middle of winter.
Therefore you have to have a secondary source of heat in order to survive.

Currently my central heating runs on gas.
I have an emergency back up of half a dozen oil filled electric radiators.
(Which get used about every 2-3 years when a boiler fails in a property, either ours or friends)

In the future, the main heating will be electric.
I will replace the gas fire with a log burner as backup.

Personally I think relying on a single source for heat in a house is dangerous.
Although many of us have a winterised motorhome as the emergency place to live.

In Norway it is compulsory to have at least two different sources of heat in a house.
Our CH boiler failed over Xmas 2023, which coincided with a very cold spell ... our wood burner was a complete life saver, possibly even literally. The new boiler is great and I am appreciating it every day at present

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[gus-lopez]

The policy failure here is when we decided to not burn Coal without building Nuclear,

This ^^^^^^^^

be exporting to Europe all week to cover the Germans who switched off their Nuclear. . Which again pushes OUR prices higher, as the Germans won't go without and will pay ANYTHING for our power.

Prices don't rise here in spain as when the french had breakdowns, coinciding with 3 or 4 offline for maintenance nuclear reactors, spain sold them electricity & just cut power off to the paying customers

and when plans are unveiled...they take years to get to and thru planning....madness

Yes there should be a bypass for schemes that are for the public benefit.Trouble is many companies of all persuasions have & would abuse the system.

I am working on a couple of new build sites where heat pumps are being installed, these properties are very well insulated the radiators used to heat these homes are massive.

& the question has to be are they for sale to the peasants or are they for 'social housing'?

One of the biggest constraints to developing these schemes on a large scale is the almost prohibitive costs of the environmental impact surveys which need to be undertaken for licenses to be granted, and the time taken to complete them.

as two paragraphs above. That is why nothing gets done.

 

[Brains]

In Norway it is compulsory to have at least two different sources of heat in a house.
Our CH boiler failed over Xmas 2023, which coincided with a very cold spell ... our wood burner was a complete life saver, possibly even literally. The new boiler is great and I am appreciating it every day at present

It's a good law.
Every country in Northern Europe should have that law.

In the UK the majority of houses have gas central heating.
With a potential back up of electric heaters, IF they have access to electric heaters.

In the UK the cost of 1kw of electricity (25p) is over 4 times the cost of 1kw of gas (6p).
Which means that heating, even one room, of a typical UK house by electricity would be prohibitively expensive.

It does not help that the UK has some of the oldest housing stock in Europe.
The majority of houses are now over 100 years old and 48% of the remainder were built before 1980.

Which means the majority of UK houses fail any normal measure of heat retention.
The Government wants to get all rented properties to get to an EPC level of 'C' by 2030, an admirable, but laughable (own) goal.

(In Germany a 'C' rated property would be almost unsellable. In the UK that would be a good selling point!)

 

[The Wino]

It's a good law.
Every country in Northern Europe should have that law.

In the UK the majority of houses have gas central heating.
With a potential back up of electric heaters, IF they have access to electric heaters.

In the UK the cost of 1kw of electricity (25p) is over 4 times the cost of 1kw of gas (6p).
Which means that heating, even one room, of a typical UK house by electricity would be prohibitively expensive.

It does not help that the UK has some of the oldest housing stock in Europe.
The majority of houses are now over 100 years old and 48% of the remainder were built before 1980.

Which means the majority of UK houses fail any normal measure of heat retention.
The Government wants to get all rented properties to get to an EPC level of 'C' by 2030, an admirable, but laughable (own) goal.

(In Germany a 'C' rated property would be almost unsellable. In the UK that would be a good selling point!)

I think the insulate Britain activists have a point although I don't agree with the way they make it everyone seems to be constantly on about the cheapest way to produce energy rather than ways to use less of it.

 

[cyberyacht]

Dual fuel isn't a lifesaver. My gas boiler, like almost everyones, will doubtless require electricity to operate.

 

[Brains]

Dual fuel isn't a lifesaver. My gas boiler, like almost everyones, will doubtless require electricity to operate.

That depends on the duel fuel.

A log burner does not need electricity.
(An nor does my fake real fire that runs on gas that I can light with a match if needed)

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[starquake]

That depends on the duel fuel.

A log burner does not need electricity.
(An nor does my fake real fire that runs on gas that I can light with a match if needed)

People do tend to miss that in event of large scale power outage that the gas grid also relys on power though. (Moving gas uses a non-insignificant amount of electric pumps).

ie, a log burner is a safe choice, relying on the avaialbility of the gas grid imho is not.

 

[autorouter]

Dual fuel isn't a lifesaver. My gas boiler, like almost everyones, will doubtless require electricity to operate.

A fairly modest power pack will power your gas boiler, fridge, freezer, internet router and phone charger through a typical power cut. Many motorhomers can run an extension cable from their motorhome inverter to do the same.

 

[Brains]

People do tend to miss that in event of large scale power outage that the gas grid also relys on power though. (Moving gas uses a non-insignificant amount of electric pumps).

ie, a log burner is a safe choice, relying on the avaialbility of the gas grid imho is not.

We are all lucky.
In the event of a total power outage, we all have motorhomes.

There are two scenarios.

The total Ukraine/Zombie Apocalypse level where electricity generation is removed for long periods of time (weeks/months/indefinitely).
In which case, piped gas is not an option.
The only solution then is carbon is some form (burning wood or coal or bottled oil or gas)

Or, in the UK, the more likely event, the shut down of gas or electricity for a number of hours or days.
Unusually you would have one or the other, not both at the same time.
You need to be able to heat/light at least one room.
The solution is candles/oil lamps and electric oil heaters.
But obviously a log burner would be better.

 

[Brains]

I think the insulate Britain activists have a point although I don't agree with the way they make it everyone seems to be constantly on about the cheapest way to produce energy rather than ways to use less of it.

They really do have a point.
The governments of all colours should be taking their message to heart.
It appears Labour take as much interest ass the Conservatives who ignored them for the last two decades.

BUT:

What would happen to the government coffers if over a short period of time people stopped buying gas to heat their homes!
Also what would happen if the people employed all the builders to rebuild or properly insulate their homes?
How would the Government build new houses without builders ?

It has been perfectly possible for decades to build houses that make maximum use of (free) solar power, and minimal (or even zero) use of fossil fuels.

I have yet to see any UK Government going all out to build decent spec, zero fossil fuel, houses.
Yet we need around a million a year built, or ten times the current output, but to a much much higher spec.

 

[Strichener]

In always love reading about people with oil and lpg heating who completely forget that the pilot light needs electricity and so does the pump that moved the hot water around their house. No electric=no heating

To the OP. I don't see the issue here, we are always being told that global warming, climate change, climate emergency is going to raise world temperatures so we can remove the heating requirement from the demand and your 25% drop in EV efficiency won't be a thing. No problemo, no Siree

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[gus-lopez]

We have log burners. we also have gas in cylinders for cooking ,water heating & heating if needed. We have a reverse cycle ac unit that can heat using electricity ,if needed. I have an ecoflow heat/ac 3kw unit that runs on its own battery & is recharged from its own solar panels.
If needed I have another diesel heater.
I will also shortly have another 4Kw ecoflow powerbank to remove the need for the incoming electric supply hopefully. This is powered from its own solar panels.

 

[The Wino]

We are all lucky.
In the event of a total power outage, we all have motorhomes.

There are two scenarios.

The total Ukraine/Zombie Apocalypse level where electricity generation is removed for long periods of time (weeks/months/indefinitely).
In which case, piped gas is not an option.
The only solution then is carbon is some form (burning wood or coal or bottled oil or gas)

Or, in the UK, the more likely event, the shut down of gas or electricity for a number of hours or days.
Unusually you would have one or the other, not both at the same time.
You need to be able to heat/light at least one room.
The solution is candles/oil lamps and electric oil heaters.
But obviously a log burner would be better.

Another solution is to charge your EV when the electric is on and use it vehicle to load to run the central heating when they have the gas on but the electricity off also a log burner.

 

[swemmy666]

In always love reading about people with oil and lpg heating who completely forget that the pilot light needs electricity and so does the pump that moved the hot water around their house. No electric=no heating

To the OP. I don't see the issue here, we are always being told that global warming, climate change, climate emergency is going to raise world temperatures so we can remove the heating requirement from the demand and your 25% drop in EV efficiency won't be a thing. No problemo, no Siree

climate change, global warming doesn't necessarily equate to permanent warmer temperatures, what it does mean is significantly more energy in the oceans, and that leads to wider swings in existing weather patterns, more storms, higher intensity storms. Increased polar and tundra thawing, which in turn will increase global temperatures and greenhouse gas release(carbon currently captured in the tundra) in a circular race to the top

 

[autorouter]

climate change, global warming doesn't necessarily equate to permanent warmer temperatures,

For the UK in particular, it definitely won't be warmer. When the Gulf Stream current stops, the UK climate will change to be like everywhere else at the same latitude, like Nova Scotia. Think New York winters, but colder and snowier.

 

[Raul]

In always love reading about people with oil and lpg heating who completely forget that the pilot light needs electricity and so does the pump that moved the hot water around their house. No electric=no heating

If anyone runs on oil and lpg, that tells me its rural in the sticks, a UPS is a must to keep the pump running. Any storm can potentially break the overhead lines. Solid fuel boilers by law needs to have a UPS to keep the pump running on a power cut, otherwise the boiler can overheat
In Europe you will never se anyone without a UPS for the boiler.

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[olley]

Not even on gravity systems?

 

[Sewdhull]

If you have a roof, get solar up there, suns not going out anytime soon. The ultimate energy security. Some batteries if you want autonomy. You can add to it over the years if you want to.

It's not possible for everyone of course, but its a good return on your investment.

 

[enark]

In always love reading about people with oil and lpg heating who completely forget that the pilot light needs electricity and so does the pump that moved the hot water around their house. No electric=no heating

To the OP. I don't see the issue here, we are always being told that global warming, climate change, climate emergency is going to raise world temperatures so we can remove the heating requirement from the demand and your 25% drop in EV efficiency won't be a thing. No problemo, no Siree

Generator….

 

[Widge]

We have the same setup... we also have battery backup!

Ah the crucial bit that most people seem to forget, when they say we have gas so will be fine if there are power problems, and forget the ignition system and the most power consuming, the water pump.

 

[swemmy666]

If you have a roof, get solar up there, suns not going out anytime soon. The ultimate energy security. Some batteries if you want autonomy. You can add to it over the years if you want to.

It's not possible for everyone of course, but its a good return on your investment.

my solar switches off if the there is a mains power cut

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[Cobra]

my solar switches off if the there is a mains power cut

Most do as they are required to cut off to prevent feedback to the grid
I am very lucky having both solar and large batteries - I reserve 20% of the battery in case of grid outage. This will give me 6kwh, so with some judicious switching, it could last about 12 hours.
This runs my boiler, PCs and freezers etc.
I am looking now at some manual changeover switches to be able to isolate my solar from the grid and provide it with a reference voltage so that even without grid power, it should still be able to charge my batteries.

 

[autorouter]

Most do as they are required to cut off to prevent feedback to the grid
I am very lucky having both solar and large batteries - I reserve 20% of the battery in case of grid outage. This will give me 6kwh, so with some judicious switching, it could last about 12 hours.
This runs my boiler, PCs and freezers etc.
I am looking now at some manual changeover switches to be able to isolate my solar from the grid and provide it with a reference voltage so that even without grid power, it should still be able to charge my batteries.

Change your 'grid-tied' inverter for a 'hybrid' inverter. It will have two circuits, one for most of the electrics, and one for those items you want to stay on if the grid fails. A hybrid inverter has its own internal mains waveform circuit that can keep the inverter going if the grid fails.

Or even better, go for a Victron Multiplus system that can synchronise with the grid mains and complement it if it is working, or take over from the grid if it fails. All these systems have 'anti-islanding' protection which prevents any power going out into the grid if the grid fails.

 

[Richard J]

Same old crap, people who want to continue burning fossil fuels like they have no grandchildren worth caring about

Grandchildren? I honestly don’t think it’s that far down the line.

 

[swemmy666]

Possible game changing technology :
-----https://vimeo.com/1029330644?&login=true#=

 

[Cobra]

go for a Victron Multiplus system that can synchronise with the grid mains and complement it if it is working, or take over from the grid if it fails.

That’s what I have, along with 31kwh of Fogstar batteries and a split consumer unit to supply ‘emergency’ circuits like boiler, pc etc directly from the MP2
I would not change the Solaredge inverter as I’m extremely happy with it along with the relevant optimisers

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