Towing a small car.

[AG 2602]

Hi All,
Some advise would be appreciated.
Never really wanted to tow a car behind the MH as we were always happy to walk out with the dog to wherever we needed to go.
However dog is now getting older so long walks of 6/7 miles are out of the question (especially hills). He can manage 4 miles on the flat (and he seems to enjoy it) with an hours rest in between which works OK but we miss the hills!!

We were planning either the Lakes or Scotland in Sept but feel we won't really see much. However if we had a small car then maybe we could drive further afield, and then do our walking at the top of hills rather than hiking up them.
We are already half way there as we have the following.

• Peugeot 107
• Tow bar already fitted to MH

Do people think this is a good move?
Anyone recommend a company near Bristol that could convert the car?

Alternatively we could spend all our holidays in Norfolk!!

 

[Ernesto]

Most insurance companies do not make a charge for towing. In any case I'm sure they know what it costs and at the end of the day it's what it's worth to them.

The OP asked for people’s thoughts … and got them. They are free to take them or not.

I tend to over share with insurers …it’s not worth the risk, but it’s just a view.

 

[Sunrise]

Hi All,
Some advise would be appreciated.
Never really wanted to tow a car behind the MH as we were always happy to walk out with the dog to wherever we needed to go.
However dog is now getting older so long walks of 6/7 miles are out of the question (especially hills). He can manage 4 miles on the flat (and he seems to enjoy it) with an hours rest in between which works OK but we miss the hills!!

We were planning either the Lakes or Scotland in Sept but feel we won't really see much. However if we had a small car then maybe we could drive further afield, and then do our walking at the top of hills rather than hiking up them.
We are already half way there as we have the following.

• Peugeot 107
• Tow bar already fitted to MH

Do people think this is a good move?
Anyone recommend a company near Bristol that could convert the car?

Alternatively we could spend all our holidays in Norfolk!!

LNB tow bars Bristol fantastic firm

 

[AG 2602]

LNB tow bars Bristol fantastic firm

We ended up buying a car which was already fitted with towmaster work was carried out by LNB and we are very happy with the set up

 

[TonyEmm]

Your knowledge is once again, behind the times, and your bias. The dual sensing system will only work if there is inertia, if the vehicle is stopped the braking assistance also stops, the Moho holds position, so no probs, no power drain.
Please try and keep up.
As to your reference to the, A Frames site, thanks for that I have now joined.
It is interesting to see how many people are using their sensible A frames in the EU.

I think it’s your knowledge that needs updating!

There is only one dual sensing system on the market in the uk, AFAIK, and that is the Smart Box Duo, supplied by https://towaframeltd.co.uk/.
with all other systems, if the brakelights are on, the system is drawing current. Add to that the fact that many installers don’t isolate the brakelight feed from the Toad’s battery, so they draw current. This is a particular issue on inertia systems where the brake pedal often doesn’t fully release due to drag in the Bowden cable….

For what it’s worth, I happen to think that TowaFrame’s system is the best out there, and certainly the best after sales service!

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[TonyEmm]

Contacted dvla reply was
The fitting of the a-frame is a adaption and not a notifiable modification to the vehicle (the same as fititng a towbar on the back of a car) so there is no requirement to inform the DVLA.

Try asking the same question to the Department of Transport, who pull the strings of both DVLA & DVSA.

Don’t bother, I’ll post their reply their when I posed that very question (amongst others).
QUOTE:
In your letter you also mention the alteration of the towed vehicle, so that an A-frame can be fitted to the front. If this has been achieved by removing the crash protection beams from the front of the vehicle and attaching a heavy fabrication to the frame, in our view it is likely that the DVLA should be alerted to this change. The vehicle may have to get a new registration as being radically altered from its original state. The guidelines on whether a vehicle has been radically altered can be found on the GOV.UK website at the following link.

Vehicle registration

How to register your vehicle and the cost - new registrations, kit cars, rebuilds, radically altered vehicles, old and classic vehicles, vehicle identification numbers, Q plates

www.gov.uk

The guidance on this page states that, to keep the original registration, the vehicle must have the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.
As you have pointed out in your letter, most
manufacturers do not believe that their vehicles are suitable to be towed by an A-frame.

Please note that this letter contains the views of the Department for Transport and that insofar as this letter provides an interpretation of the law, it is only a court of law that is able to give a legally definitive interpretation.
Yours sincerely
International Vehicle Standards. UNQUOTE.

 

[Mike Warland]

We have the same motorhome as you have 2020 Pilote G740C and we tow an Aygo which was converted by Towbars 2 Towcars. Hardly notice it's on the back except we see it on the camera still get approx 30mpg (9 speed Auto) moho's been remapped.

Hi, Who did remap please I am thinking of towing a car and also have 9 speed auto . What stage of remap did you have.

 

[BrianHHill]

Hi All,
Some advise would be appreciated.
Never really wanted to tow a car behind the MH as we were always happy to walk out with the dog to wherever we needed to go.
However dog is now getting older so long walks of 6/7 miles are out of the question (especially hills). He can manage 4 miles on the flat (and he seems to enjoy it) with an hours rest in between which works OK but we miss the hills!!

We were planning either the Lakes or Scotland in Sept but feel we won't really see much. However if we had a small car then maybe we could drive further afield, and then do our walking at the top of hills rather than hiking up them.
We are already half way there as we have the following.

• Peugeot 107
• Tow bar already fitted to MH

Do people think this is a good move?
Anyone recommend a company near Bristol that could convert the car?

Alternatively we could spend all our holidays in Norfolk!!

We have a Peugeot 108 on towbars2towcars A Frame and a type approved tow bar and consider it a great asset. It doesn't make any significant difference to fuel. Just wish it was legal abroad.

 

[Conniedriving]

Try asking the same question to the Department of Transport, who pull the strings of both DVLA & DVSA.

Don’t bother, I’ll post their reply their when I posed that very question (amongst others).
QUOTE:
In your letter you also mention the alteration of the towed vehicle, so that an A-frame can be fitted to the front. If this has been achieved by removing the crash protection beams from the front of the vehicle and attaching a heavy fabrication to the frame, in our view it is likely that the DVLA should be alerted to this change. The vehicle may have to get a new registration as being radically altered from its original state. The guidelines on whether a vehicle has been radically altered can be found on the GOV.UK website at the following link.

Vehicle registration

How to register your vehicle and the cost - new registrations, kit cars, rebuilds, radically altered vehicles, old and classic vehicles, vehicle identification numbers, Q plates

www.gov.uk

The guidance on this page states that, to keep the original registration, the vehicle must have the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.
As you have pointed out in your letter, most
manufacturers do not believe that their vehicles are suitable to be towed by an A-frame.

Please note that this letter contains the views of the Department for Transport and that insofar as this letter provides an interpretation of the law, it is only a court of law that is able to give a legally definitive interpretation.
Yours sincerely
International Vehicle Standards. UNQUOTE.

Now you start quoting DOT
I think you just like to play on words
You said you have to inform dvla . You don’t .
You may need to have the. car inspected
You don’t

 

[minesapint]

I think it’s your knowledge that needs updating!

There is only one dual sensing system on the market in the uk, AFAIK, and that is the Smart Box Duo, supplied by https://towaframeltd.co.uk/.
with all other systems, if the brakelights are on, the system is drawing current. Add to that the fact that many installers don’t isolate the brakelight feed from the Toad’s battery, so they draw current. This is a particular issue on inertia systems where the brake pedal often doesn’t fully release due to drag in the Bowden cable….

For what it’s worth, I happen to think that TowaFrame’s system is the best out there, and certainly the best after sales service!

Thank you for your reply.

My knowledge does not need updating.
I have a Tow A Frame system, complete with the excellent Smart Box Duo.

But I do agree with you that TowAFrames system, is the best having had old, heavy over ride/ inertia systems. And the after sales, is as you say"" the best"".
And so easy to use.

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[TonyEmm]

Now you start quoting DOT
I think you just like to play on words
You said you have to inform dvla . You don’t .
You may need to have the. car inspected
You don’t

Why is it you have to nitpick about every single thing I say? You clearly have an issue….

Re-read my post, I did not say « you must inform DVLA »

I quoted DfT as both DVLA & DVSA are answerable to them.

DfT said, and I repeat ‘THEY said’, QUOTE: …….in our view it is likely that the DVLA should be alerted to this change. The vehicle may have to get a new registration as being radically altered from its original state. UNQUOTE.

DfT said it, I repeated their view….

I’m not sure I ever mentioned ‘inspections’ but, for what it’s worth, I think inspections on all a-frames should be mandatory, as should type approval (it converts the car (temporarily) to an O2 trailer after all, which IS subject to type approval and certification. That though is only my view, which you obviously consider worthless.

 

[TonyEmm]

Thank you for your reply.

My knowledge does not need updating.
I have a Tow A Frame system, complete with the excellent Smart Box Duo.

But I do agree with you that TowAFrames system, is the best having had old, heavy over ride/ inertia systems. And the after sales, is as you say"" the best"".
And so easy to use.

View attachment 778372

At least we can agree on something!

 

[Conniedriving]

Why is it you have to nitpick about every single thing I say? You clearly have an issue….
You don’t like people disagreeing with you do you like I said you use play on words and I could not-pick on a lot what you say .

Re-read my post, I did not say « you must inform DVLA »

I quoted DfT as both DVLA & DVSA are answerable to them.

DfT said, and I repeat ‘THEY said’, QUOTE: …….in our view it is likely that the DVLA should be alerted to this change. The vehicle may have to get a new registration as being radically altered from its original state. UNQUOTE.

DfT said it, I repeated their view….

I’m not sure I ever mentioned ‘inspections’ but, for what it’s worth, I think inspections on all a-frames should be mandatory, as should type approval (it converts the car (temporarily) to an O2 trailer after all, which IS subject to type approval and certification. That though is only my view, which you obviously consider worthless.

 

[Living life]

I'm sure the tow bar will be fine but I'll get it checked out by the fitter if I plan to go ahead.
Didn't think about insurance I'll give them a call Thanks

We insure with CMC and they don't charge extra for a tow car.

 

[TonyEmm]

Conniedriving , You accuse me of playing on words yet according to you, having a car adapted to tow and having a car adapted to be towed, one is an adaption and the other a modification? You may care to explain the logic of that in more detail…. Though I must confess I’m getting bored with your useless comments.

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[Larrynwin]

That depends on your driving style!
Next time you stop at a set of traffic lights, check the queue in front and see how many vehicles have their brakelights on constantly.
We all know it’s not the way to do it, but most do!

I think you’re on the wrong track Tony, once stopped the RVi unit is not operating and brake lights on the towed car are powered from the towing vehicle therefore no draw on the towed car battery.
The RVi unit only draws current when it is actually braking not when the car is stationary even with brakes applied.

 

[TonyEmm]

I think you’re on the wrong track Tony once stopped the RVi unit is not operating and brake lights on the towed car are powered from the towing vehicle therefore no draw on the towed car battery.
The RVi unit only draws current when it is actually braking not when the car is stationary even with brakes applied.

I agree with you entirely there, provided your foot isn’t on the brake pedal, none of the electronic activated units will be drawing current. My point though was that many folk sit at traffic lights etc with their foot on the brake and then, they will continue to draw current!
Add to that my 2nd comment about installers not isolating the TOAD’s battery from the brakelight circuit and the brakelights will be drawing a lesser current.
You’re right that the brakelights SHOULD be powered directly from the MoHo (as should all other lights) but many modern cars have brakelights activated outside the ignition, if the pedal is pressed. This alone is the cause of many flat batteries on TOADs. It’s an FAQ on some FB groups!

 

[Conniedriving]

Conniedriving , You accuse me of playing on words yet according to you, having a car adapted to tow and having a car adapted to be towed, one is an adaption and the other a modification? You may care to explain the logic of that in more detail…. Though I must confess I’m getting bored with your useless comments.

We’re all getting bored with your negative comments that’s why they will not allow you to join some forums

 

[Larrynwin]

I agree with you entirely there, provided your foot isn’t on the brake pedal, none of the electronic activated units will be drawing current. My point though was that many folk sit at traffic lights etc with their foot on the brake and then, they will continue to draw current!
Add to that my 2nd comment about installers not isolating the TOAD’s battery from the brakelight circuit and the brakelights will be drawing a lesser current.
You’re right that the brakelights SHOULD be powered directly from the MoHo (as should all other lights) but many modern cars have brakelights activated outside the ignition, if the pedal is pressed. This alone is the cause of many flat batteries on TOADs. It’s an FAQ on some FB groups!

You are incorrect, if I am stationary with car on tow with my foot on the foot brake car brake lights are powered by the towing vehicle and the RVi unit is idle and not drawing current especially the 12.8 amps you have mentioned earlier.
The system I have fitted has worked perfectly for some ten years and others seem happy with their a frame installations so you appear to be the only one who has a problem with a frames and I would hazard a guess you don’t even have one

I have no more circles to go around with you and your pointless and often incorrect anti a frame crusade so will leave you to continue your expedition.

Good bye.

 

[Conniedriving]

You are incorrect, if I am stationary with car on tow with my foot on the foot brake car brake lights are powered by the towing vehicle and the RVi unit is idle and not drawing current especially the 12.8 amps you have mentioned earlier.
The system I have fitted has worked perfectly for some ten years and others seem happy with their a frame installations so you appear to be the only one who has a problem with a frames and I would hazard a guess you don’t even have one

I have no more circles to go around with you and your pointless and often incorrect anti a frame crusade so will leave you to continue your expedition.

Good bye.

Well said

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[TonyEmm]

You are incorrect, if I am stationary with car on tow with my foot on the foot brake car brake lights are powered by the towing vehicle and the RVi unit is idle and not drawing current especially the 12.8 amps you have mentioned earlier.
The system I have fitted has worked perfectly for some ten years and others seem happy with their a frame installations so you appear to be the only one who has a problem with a frames and I would hazard a guess you don’t even have one

I have no more circles to go around with you and your pointless and often incorrect anti a frame crusade so will leave you to continue your expedition.

Good bye.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that!
Do you have an alternative suggestion as to why many TOAD owners are suffering flat batteries on them when they arrive at their destination?

 

[Flightlevel55]

Hi - shame, I sold mine 3 weeks ago! No sticky out bit, they colour match 2 plastic caps that go in the holes where the A Frame connects when not is use. Very neat and tidy job, you do not notice them.it’s around £2500 - £3000 I believe. I bought mine already converted. It’s the electronic braking system. Have a look on their website, you’ll get all the info you need along with YouTube videos of it working etc.

Thanks for that info, much appreciated.

 

[Conniedriving]

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that!
Do you have an alternative suggestion as to why many TOAD owners are suffering flat batteries on them when they arrive at their destination?

How many are supposed to be suffering flat batteries would love to know were you get this information from ?

 

[TonyEmm]

How many are supposed to be suffering flat batteries would love to know were you get this information from ?

Search the FAQ’s on the relevant a-frame groups…

oh, I forgot, you’re not in one!

 

[Larrynwin]

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[Conniedriving]

Search the FAQ’s on the relevant a-frame groups…

oh, I forgot, you’re not in one!

I am on more than you think
This is what mean you make a statement then when someone ask for information you have no real answer except to say search for it yourself

 

[TonyEmm]

I am on more than you think
This is what mean you make a statement then when someone ask for information you have no real answer except to say search for it yourself

So you’re hiding behind another I.D. on FB?

If you’re in the right groups, you know the answers already, I’ve spelled them out on there.

If you have a serious question to ask, ask away. If not, going round in circles gets no-one anywhere.

 

[the1andonly]

I was originaly concerned about the car battery condition after long stints towing (+8 hrs) i rigged up an arduino to measure the voltage on the car battery. My initial results showed me there was absolutely no problem at all. I think i even sent the results to Mike. By the way i have the Duo system of Tow a frame. Can only recommend the system and the company.

 

[Conniedriving]

So you’re hiding behind another I.D. on FB?

If you’re in the right groups, you know the answers already, I’ve spelled them out on there.

If you have a serious question to ask, ask away. If not, going round in circles gets no-one anywhere.

No not under another fb Id
I think if I ask you and two others for a face to face meeting only one would turn up

 

[TonyEmm]

No not under another fb Id
I think if I ask you and two others for a face to face meeting only one would turn up

Probably because you, or they, are blocking me and some wouldn’t see the invite! .
So your FB I.D. Is?

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[Steve and Denise]

Looks like someone is still singing the same old song