Towing A frame in France
- Thread starter John n Jinny
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Coolcats
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- Jan 24, 2019
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Here are some that do…..
- Honda Goldwing series (GL1800 Goldwing and Goldwing DCT/Tour/Tour DCT/Tour Airbag DCT models only)
- BMW K1200LT
- All Ural sidecar motorcycles (Baikal Limited Edition, CT Around Town Weekender, Gear Up Off-Road Adventurer, etc.)
- BMW R 18
- Yamaha Star Venture TC
- BMW K1600 series (K 1600 GT, K 1600 GTL, K 1600 B, and K 1600 Grand America)
- Others: Piaggio MP3 500 trike, certain Moto Guzzi models, Can-Am Spyder/Ryker trikes, and Harley-Davidson Tri-Glide/Freewheeler three-wheelers.
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62272
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They do…. They’re are called your feet !!Most motorbikes don’t have a reverse gear….
Bit difficult on a downward slope though
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62272
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happens to lots of vehicles that are not properly maintained, brakes, steering, suspension, tyres… the accident statistics are littered with such occurrences. Although excess speed (for the conditions) and driver inattention puts these statistics into the minority.Scaremongering? These things happened!
So long as an A-frame kit is fitted by a reputable dealer (and fit for purpose) AND the vehicle is regularly inspected for things like mounting points, and braking actuation there is no reason why it is not as safe as a conventional trailer. Seen many of those overturned incidentally, generally owing to lack of maintenance.
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- Apr 12, 2020
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Not too easy on gravel either! I had a Honda Deauville which was really a bit heavy for a geriatric… Great on the road, a nightmare manoeuvring on my drive!They do…. They’re are called your feet !!
Bit difficult on a downward slope though
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62272
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Riding on gravel period is dodgy, i’ve dropped it (or nearly) when manoeuvring on gravelled courtyards, a nightmare!
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- Dec 19, 2020
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Most motorhomes have sufficient food and water for three days. How many vehicles come with a trebuchet? (Other siege engines are available).
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A point about narrow roads and not being able to reverse. I tend to avoid roads which look as if they will get very narrow, with or without the toad, but with the toad we can go sightseeing on very narrow roads in the toad once we arrive in an area,
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There is no requirement in the RV C&U regs for a motorbike to be reversible o it’s totally irrelevant.
Cat O2 trailers are required to be auto-reversible! A TOAD is a cat O2 trailer according DfT, yet the rules aren’t enforced in the U.K.
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- Apr 12, 2020
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- Apr 14, 2023
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Purely out of interest (we are newbies to motor-homing so learning on the fly) would the same speed/lane restrictions apply to towing a trailer and using an A-frame i.e. are they classed as the same thing?
I have, and plan to have, neither, but just wondered if the same rules would apply to both.
I have, and plan to have, neither, but just wondered if the same rules would apply to both.
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Reversing a Toad is different from reversing a caravan, horsebox and even an HGV-1 trailer. The problem is the front wheels: I used a 'dumb' ignition key to free the steering lock (ie, a key without a chip, so it couldn't be used to start the car's engine), therefore, the front wheels would turn whichever way you were going, when going forward. However, when reversing, the blessed things would naturally turn in the wrong direction. The choice then is to either reverse with lots of short shunts to straighten the car's wheels again; plough two grooves if reversing on grass; or, scrub the car's front tyres bald if on gravel or tarmac.Reversing a ‘proper’ trailer isn’t that difficult. It took me about 30 minutes to teach my wife how to reverse a double horsebox behind a LandRover Discovery…. The ‘horsey’ girls put caravanners to shame TBH when it comes to reversing!
Pre-2015, I used a Toad both in UK and France without any issues, but maybe I was lucky. On the Continent it is illegal, but 'not so illegal' that a lot of French police are bothered about. If I did it again, I would use a trailer: much easier to reverse and definitely legal. Age has diminished my pioneering spirit!
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In the U.K., an a-frame towed car is accepted and classed as a Cat O2 trailer. It’s subject to the same rules & regs.
it’s a similar situation in Ireland except that on motorways, they can only use the nearside lane (barring obstructions).
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They can't used the right hand lane if the motorway has three or more lanes; so the first and second lanes can be used unless otherwise signed.
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- Apr 14, 2023
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Ok thanks. When you say an O2 trailer, which I believe in 0.75 - 3t, has to be auto-reversible, does that mean they have to be fitted with devices like the motorised movers which are installed on caravans, or does the vehicle towing them satisfy that requirement?
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I believe most, if not all, A-frame brakes are activated by centrifugal force, and not pressure being applied on the towing bar. Therefore, they can be reversed without someone having to get out and do anything. Modern caravans automatically disengage the brakes when being reversed; so there is an initial resistance and then the caravan's brakes are released. So auto-reversible means they can be reversed immediately.
Motor movers have nothing to do with the 'auto-reversible' issue.
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- 20+ years. Previously Hymer B654 and Hymer S660 both c/w tow-bars.
A Cat O2 trailer is a
light trailer, over 0.75 tonnes but under 3.5 tonnes (O2). They are required to be fitted with auto reverse braking systems.
This would also apply to very light trailers, under 0.75 tonnes (O1) if they are (optionally) fitted with brakes.
A motor mover is an entirely different animal. There is no requirement for anything to have a motor mover fitted but, it’s an option (originally designed for caravans), to have electric motors driving the wheels, slowly, under control using a remote handset, as a parking aid.
A motor mover should never be engaged while the trailer is being towed and serves no purpose whatsoever on an a-frame towed car.
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- Apr 12, 2020
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- 20+ years. Previously Hymer B654 and Hymer S660 both c/w tow-bars.
Essentially, there are two types of braking systems used on a-frames.
The most advanced are electronic activated systems and the brakes are only activated when the towing brakes are applied. Auto-reverse is automatic, provided you don’t feather the brake pedal!
The more traditional system (and still most prolific) are inertia/over-run systems, as used on caravans. They have 2 distinct elements.
1. is a gas strut damped drawtube, that slides inside the coupling body, as the trailer catches the vehicle up. This reacts on a brake lever at the rear which activates the brake linkage.
obviously, if reversing, the trailer again closes up to the towing vehicle so the brakes would again be applied, therefore…
2. Trailer and caravan brakes have an auto reverse mechanism built into the drums. When the wheels are rotating in a reverse direction, the mechanism allows the brake shoes to collapse inwards allowing relatively free movement.
moving forwards again returns to the status quo so, it’s an automatic auto reverse system.
NOTE: This does NOT apply on towed cars as no motorised vehicles has the auto reverse mechanism installed.
This makes inertia/overrun systems incompatible with TOADS.
As you’ve said, Motor Movers are a totally different, unrelated animal!
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minesapint
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This site is on Facebook, most people on it seem to be happy towing in Frogville. A Frames not Trailers in Europe. May be worth a look for info.
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I don’t think it’s illegal but if you go on LNB tow bars website you can download information that explains the whole thing.
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I have used one in France before and I’ve meet campers in Spain who are towing
I think if you have two drivers but I don’t do I personally would not take a chance on it
So I think I stick with the trailer
But I wish it could be sorted out once and for all
Buts that the EU for you
I think if you have two drivers but I don’t do I personally would not take a chance on it
So I think I stick with the trailer
But I wish it could be sorted out once and for all
Buts that the EU for you
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Look on LNB towbars website they have artice you can print off that explains the whole law.
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- Apr 12, 2020
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Why do you persist in plugging this useless group? Of course the members will be happy a-framing abroad, most deny any knowledge of any legislation whatsoever! What’s more, they refuse to discuss towing with a trailer which is the only guaranteed legal way to do it.
it’s hardly a balanced point of view!
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- Apr 12, 2020
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- Rapido 7095DF
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- 20+ years. Previously Hymer B654 and Hymer S660 both c/w tow-bars.
LNB has his own interpretation of the Vienna Convention which does not agree with the reality. Neither does he explain the whole law, in common with many suppliers, he is selective.
You may recall this was the company that advised you to (illegally) register your TOAD as a commercial trailer at DVLA.
This particular loophole was closed in February ‘22 and duplicate registrations that had been issued are being withdrawn.
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That’s who fitted my last a frame
N
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