Tam &Toby do Europe ...Take two

Northernraider said:
So what a bloody morning I've had , first had to poke round poo to find hook, we then popped in to vet to tell them I had got it and she gave him a once over to make sure ok, we then left and jade decided to stop in the middle of the road and do a poo ....I bent down to pick it up and my raybans fell off in to the poo . So I had to put them in a poo bag till we got back to the van , stopped to fill up water tank as I ran out of water last night then headed to armaceo de pero as there's a pingo dolce with motorhome spaces .....get there and 4 out of 5 spaces filled with cars a van and a jet2 holidays bus .....so pingo dolce you lost approx €40 from me.

I then headed out to albufera and coming round a round About this idiot cut his lane and hit my van

He just kept driving and I had to keep blasting the horn to get him to stop , he staggered up to my window waving arms saying what what , I said you hit my van and there's no way you didn't feel it ....he says no speak English, I got out and basically he's hit the near side wheel arch that was already damaged but he's completely knackered it now...he kept patting my shoulder and trying to shake my hand saying it's ok it's ok and making signals as of to say it's no problem forget it , his wife then gets out and starts telling him to come in the car....which he did and drove off leaving me standing there I'm pretty sure he was drunk.

The arch was already visibly damaged so not sure it's worth pursuing it but I'm really pissed off at his attitude ...

So I'm now back in albufera
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You should buy a lottery ticket, Tam. Your luck has got to change soon.
 
Some dog owners astound me , just had the pups out for a walk near the aire and there's a bit of park very popular with dogs so we were up there and I let my two off the lead as usual ...so they did their usual tearing around going wild for a bit ....then as we are walking down there's a guy standing on the grass with 2 things that looked like pugs but black on the lead ....very short leads.
So anyway my two went over as usual they like to see other dogs and of course the usual happened and the person with dog on lead starts getting spun around as his dogs try to chase mine ....so he starts shouting at me lol in a German accent saying get get wtf and waving his arms.

I said they are dogs mate what do you expect them to do ?

He's like keep them with you under control


I was like they are pups they want to play ....like most dogs do including yours , maybe you should take the stick out your ass and throw it for the dogs....Who knows maybe you both will have fun.


I never understand these folk , it's the same as the ones with the little toy dogs who panic and scoop them up under their arm when they see another dog coming..

Neither of my dogs have an aggressive bone in their body , they don't fight or attack they just want to play....And jade just wants cuddles and to raid handbags for treats.

He won't last long up there lol as there's about 20 local dogs of all sizes get to run around free up there most of the day ....jade and Milo love playing with them all.

They would be climbing the walls if kept on a lead all day.
 
Northernraider said:
Some dog owners astound me , just had the pups out for a walk near the aire and there's a bit of park very popular with dogs so we were up there and I let my two off the lead as usual ...so they did their usual tearing around going wild for a bit ....then as we are walking down there's a guy standing on the grass with 2 things that looked like pugs but black on the lead ....very short leads.
So anyway my two went over as usual they like to see other dogs and of course the usual happened and the person with dog on lead starts getting spun around as his dogs try to chase mine ....so he starts shouting at me lol in a German accent saying get get wtf and waving his arms.

I said they are dogs mate what do you expect them to do ?

He's like keep them with you under control


I was like they are pups they want to play ....like most dogs do including yours , maybe you should take the stick out your ass and throw it for the dogs....Who knows maybe you both will have fun.


I never understand these folk , it's the same as the ones with the little toy dogs who panic and scoop them up under their arm when they see another dog coming..

Neither of my dogs have an aggressive bone in their body , they don't fight or attack they just want to play....And jade just wants cuddles and to raid handbags for treats.

He won't last long up there lol as there's about 20 local dogs of all sizes get to run around free up there most of the day ....jade and Milo love playing with them all.

They would be climbing the walls if kept on a lead all day.
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But not all dogs are like yours Tam,,,my old Jack Russell of years ago would have just attacked them both if they had come running up to her.Had her 16 years and nothing i did would change her..She would fight anything,,Her saving grace was that she loved people.BUSBY.
 
busby said:
But not all dogs are like yours Tam,,,my old Jack Russell of years ago would have just attacked them both if they had come running up to her.Had her 16 years and nothing i did would change her..She would fight anything,,Her saving grace was that she loved people.BUSBY.
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Still can't expect everyone to keep their dogs on a lead in a park as a result though.
If they approach a dog and it gets aggressive with them 9 times out of ten they will run away from it anyway.
But dogs will naturally approach other dogs that's what they do.
 
We find the same problem. Our dog hates being on a lead and at home he never is, unless walking on paths. In a lot of countries they have to have their dogs on leads by law. People in those countries appear to be afraid of dogs. You’d think we were walking a puma the way folk react.

At the moment we’re in Norway. Their rules state that dogs can be let off the lead from 20 August but most people keep them on. It’s sad to see dogs unable to run freely despite being out in the countryside.

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I can understand both sides of the argument. My first Greyhound couldn't cope with other dogs whilst being the gentlest and most friendly animal with any human. Early in my ownership we met a neighbour on a blind corner on the pavement. My dog was on a lead and his was off walking just ahead of him. Mine, without warning and moving like lightning, grabbed his small, elderly, terrier in the middle of its back, lifted it off the ground and was reluctant to let go. We got the terrier to the vet but spinal damage and shock caused its death in a couple of days. If his dog had been on a lead by his side the incident might not have happened. And I might not have felt guilty for months.
 
Northernraider said:
Some dog owners astound me , just had the pups out for a walk near the aire and there's a bit of park very popular with dogs so we were up there and I let my two off the lead as usual ...so they did their usual tearing around going wild for a bit ....then as we are walking down there's a guy standing on the grass with 2 things that looked like pugs but black on the lead ....very short leads.
So anyway my two went over as usual they like to see other dogs and of course the usual happened and the person with dog on lead starts getting spun around as his dogs try to chase mine ....so he starts shouting at me lol in a German accent saying get get wtf and waving his arms.

I said they are dogs mate what do you expect them to do ?

He's like keep them with you under control


I was like they are pups they want to play ....like most dogs do including yours , maybe you should take the stick out your ass and throw it for the dogs....Who knows maybe you both will have fun.


I never understand these folk , it's the same as the ones with the little toy dogs who panic and scoop them up under their arm when they see another dog coming..

Neither of my dogs have an aggressive bone in their body , they don't fight or attack they just want to play....And jade just wants cuddles and to raid handbags for treats.

He won't last long up there lol as there's about 20 local dogs of all sizes get to run around free up there most of the day ....jade and Milo love playing with them all.

They would be climbing the walls if kept on a lead all day.
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I'm biting my tongue here Tam, suffice it to say that whilst your opinion of your two might be right, it's definitely not the case in all circumstances.
Not all dogs love other dogs for an infinite number of reasons [just like humans really]
 
Langtoftlad said:
I'm biting my tongue here Tam, suffice it to say that whilst your opinion of your two might be right, it's definitely not the case in all circumstances.
Not all dogs love other dogs for an infinite number of reasons [just like humans really]
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I'm aware of that...but what's the answer ?
Everyone keeps every dog on a lead at all times?
Not much of a life for a dog , and to find anywhere these days where there aren't other dogs isn't easy.
 
I had a similar incident with my Collie yesterday Tam.
Now I say straight off we should be able to call our dogs away or tell them "down, stay". I admit under certain circumstances I can't do that with Lass.
Well yesterday I had done my usual walk around the water's edge of the lake with the pup paddling and splashing and Lass swimming after sticks I threw.
When I get to the other end of that particular bit of "beach" I pick my way up between some biggish boulders and under some pine trees where I often sit and have bit of a rest in the shade before rejoining the path that runs through the trees and continuing.
Well yesterday as I was making my way up thru the boulders, I saw something white in the shade under the trees, a second glance revealed that it was a woman wearing white top sitting there.
I called the pup to me and clipped her on the lead around my waist (I walk with the aid of two walking poles now due to the steady progression of my MS). At this point I was still below and about 30 or 40ft from where the woman was sitting and passing at an angle across the front of the trees, Lass was some 20ft ahead of me carrying a stick on the same trajectory as myself and the pup. Suddenly a man lept up from behind the woman,snatching up a piece of branch, ran toward Lass shouting and hurled it at her. He missed and it clattered amongst the rocks.
Lass was delighted and retrieved it for him, dropping it at his feet and dancing back waiting for her new playmate to throw it again. He was waving his arms and shouting at me in heavily accented English. I was trying to call Lass to me and encourage the pup onward (she didn't like the look of this maniac). He was in a fury and picked up a large rock and hurled at Lass, thankfully missing.
Lass doesn't do stones so she dodged around him and retrieved his original branch again,this time taking it to the woman still seated on the ground. By now I was up at the same level, when Lass delivered the branch to the woman, he went into a fury, hurling anything he could get hold of at her. I was concerned for Lass, she was in considerable danger. He was waving his arms at me, demanding "why you come here? I don't like dogs!" I would never have guessed!
I was still trying to recall Lass and tell him that I was going to the path just a few yards away beyond the trees . He hurled another rock dangerously close to Lass, by now I was angry too and managed to get in front of him and told him if he hurt my dog I would call the police.
There was a brief lull during which I managed to get Lass's attention, I pushed past him and we safely achieved the path.
I was cursing Lass under my breath but equally relieved that she was uninjured. Cursing the man for his irrational behaviour, had he stood up as I approached and quietly asked me to keep the dogs away, I would certainly have done so with no problem.
Had he remained seated and ignored us we would have passed by without paying them any attention.
The moment he threw the first blankety stick all was lost!
I am sorry his day was ruined, I am sorry if he or his Lady were afraid or allergic to dogs but mostly I am sorry and angry with myself that I have not trained Lass sufficiently to keep her out of danger.
Sorry, I needed to get that off my chest.
If it hadn't been potentially so dangerous for Lass it would have been really funny.

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Northernraider said:
Still can't expect everyone to keep their dogs on a lead in a park as a result though.
If they approach a dog and it gets aggressive with them 9 times out of ten they will run away from it anyway.
But dogs will naturally approach other dogs that's what they do.
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Agree but they should come back when called..Not many dogs approached my Jack Russell twice..My other 5 dogs were placid but she must have had a Looney gene..BUSBY,
 
Val 2 dogs said:
I had a similar incident with my Collie yesterday Tam.
Now I say straight off we should be able to call our dogs away or tell them "down, stay". I admit under certain circumstances I can't do that with Lass.
Well yesterday I had done my usual walk around the water's edge of the lake with the pup paddling and splashing and Lass swimming after sticks I threw.
When I get to the other end of that particular bit of "beach" I pick my way up between some biggish boulders and under some pine trees where I often sit and have bit of a rest in the shade before rejoining the path that runs through the trees and continuing.
Well yesterday as I was making my way up thru the boulders, I saw something white in the shade under the trees, a second glance revealed that it was a woman wearing white top sitting there.
I called the pup to me and clipped her on the lead around my waist (I walk with the aid of two walking poles now due to the steady progression of my MS). At this point I was still below and about 30 or 40ft from where the woman was sitting and passing at an angle across the front of the trees, Lass was some 20ft ahead of me carrying a stick on the same trajectory as myself and the pup. Suddenly a man lept up from behind the woman,snatching up a piece of branch, ran toward Lass shouting and hurled it at her. He missed and it clattered amongst the rocks.
Lass was delighted and retrieved it for him, dropping it at his feet and dancing back waiting for her new playmate to throw it again. He was waving his arms and shouting at me in heavily accented English. I was trying to call Lass to me and encourage the pup onward (she didn't like the look of this maniac). He was in a fury and picked up a large rock and hurled at Lass, thankfully missing.
Lass doesn't do stones so she dodged around him and retrieved his original branch again,this time taking it to the woman still seated on the ground. By now I was up at the same level, when Lass delivered the branch to the woman, he went into a fury, hurling anything he could get hold of at her. I was concerned for Lass, she was in considerable danger. He was waving his arms at me, demanding "why you come here? I don't like dogs!" I would never have guessed!
I was still trying to recall Lass and tell him that I was going to the path just a few yards away beyond the trees . He hurled another rock dangerously close to Lass, by now I was angry too and managed to get in front of him and told him if he hurt my dog I would call the police.
There was a brief lull during which I managed to get Lass's attention, I pushed past him and we safely achieved the path.
I was cursing Lass under my breath but equally relieved that she was uninjured. Cursing the man for his irrational behaviour, had he stood up as I approached and quietly asked me to keep the dogs away, I would certainly have done so with no problem.
Had he remained seated and ignored us we would have passed by without paying them any attention.
The moment he threw the first blankety stick all was lost!
I am sorry his day was ruined, I am sorry if he or his Lady were afraid or allergic to dogs but mostly I am sorry and angry with myself that I have not trained Lass sufficiently to keep her out of danger.
Sorry, I needed to get that off my chest.
If it hadn't been potentially so dangerous for Lass it would have been really funny.
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That sound awful, unbelievable how nasty some people can be. Thankfully Lass is OK.
 
busby said:
Agree but they should come back when called..Not many dogs approached my Jack Russell twice..My other 5 dogs were placid but she must have had a Looney gene..BUSBY,
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They did come back when I called them , perhaps not the first time but by the third call they certainly had. I don't understand his over reaction his dogs were keen to play also and had they been off would likely have had a good chase around as all the other dogs there do , that's what Milo was trying to get them to do ...chase him.
My dogs are very friendly Milo more towards other dogs than people and jade more towards people than other dogs.
Mine tend to be able to tell by a dogs stance etc if it's going to go for them and will back off but when the other dogs tail is wagging and they are bouncing to greet them then they get excited and want to play.
 
Val 2 dogs said:
I had a similar incident with my Collie yesterday Tam.
Now I say straight off we should be able to call our dogs away or tell them "down, stay". I admit under certain circumstances I can't do that with Lass.
Well yesterday I had done my usual walk around the water's edge of the lake with the pup paddling and splashing and Lass swimming after sticks I threw.
When I get to the other end of that particular bit of "beach" I pick my way up between some biggish boulders and under some pine trees where I often sit and have bit of a rest in the shade before rejoining the path that runs through the trees and continuing.
Well yesterday as I was making my way up thru the boulders, I saw something white in the shade under the trees, a second glance revealed that it was a woman wearing white top sitting there.
I called the pup to me and clipped her on the lead around my waist (I walk with the aid of two walking poles now due to the steady progression of my MS). At this point I was still below and about 30 or 40ft from where the woman was sitting and passing at an angle across the front of the trees, Lass was some 20ft ahead of me carrying a stick on the same trajectory as myself and the pup. Suddenly a man lept up from behind the woman,snatching up a piece of branch, ran toward Lass shouting and hurled it at her. He missed and it clattered amongst the rocks.
Lass was delighted and retrieved it for him, dropping it at his feet and dancing back waiting for her new playmate to throw it again. He was waving his arms and shouting at me in heavily accented English. I was trying to call Lass to me and encourage the pup onward (she didn't like the look of this maniac). He was in a fury and picked up a large rock and hurled at Lass, thankfully missing.
Lass doesn't do stones so she dodged around him and retrieved his original branch again,this time taking it to the woman still seated on the ground. By now I was up at the same level, when Lass delivered the branch to the woman, he went into a fury, hurling anything he could get hold of at her. I was concerned for Lass, she was in considerable danger. He was waving his arms at me, demanding "why you come here? I don't like dogs!" I would never have guessed!
I was still trying to recall Lass and tell him that I was going to the path just a few yards away beyond the trees . He hurled another rock dangerously close to Lass, by now I was angry too and managed to get in front of him and told him if he hurt my dog I would call the police.
There was a brief lull during which I managed to get Lass's attention, I pushed past him and we safely achieved the path.
I was cursing Lass under my breath but equally relieved that she was uninjured. Cursing the man for his irrational behaviour, had he stood up as I approached and quietly asked me to keep the dogs away, I would certainly have done so with no problem.
Had he remained seated and ignored us we would have passed by without paying them any attention.
The moment he threw the first blankety stick all was lost!
I am sorry his day was ruined, I am sorry if he or his Lady were afraid or allergic to dogs but mostly I am sorry and angry with myself that I have not trained Lass sufficiently to keep her out of danger.
Sorry, I needed to get that off my chest.
If it hadn't been potentially so dangerous for Lass it would have been really funny.
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I don't understand why people over react like that ....I've noticed some kids practically scrambling up their parents legs when I walk past with mine and really their parents should be teaching their kids the difference between a small friendly puppy and a sabre tooth tiger.
It's kind of like when folk get all mental when a bumble bee flys past


They are best keeping their irrational fear for Muslims and homosexuals ?
 
In my opinion anyone who hasn't got their own land big enough to let dogs roam should either not have them or keep them on a lead at all times.

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chaser said:
In my opinion anyone who hasn't got their own land big enough to let dogs roam should either not have them or keep them on a lead at all times.
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Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, but having suggested some months back that all this dog talk should have its own thread I'm surprised you have so much to say.
 
chaser said:
In my opinion anyone who hasn't got their own land big enough to let dogs roam should either not have them or keep them on a lead at all times.
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I think that is pretty harsh Chaser. That would rule out a vast number of people from the joys of having a dog and dogs confined to leads most of the time would soon become depressed, neurotic and aggressive. (n)
 
Val 2 dogs said:
I think that is pretty harsh Chaser. That would rule out a vast number of people from the joys of having a dog and dogs confined to leads most of the time would soon become depressed, neurotic and aggressive. (n)
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It's kind of like saying unless you have your own forum thread all folk should not speak or be kept gagged really ?
 
tonyidle said:
I can understand both sides of the argument. My first Greyhound couldn't cope with other dogs whilst being the gentlest and most friendly animal with any human. Early in my ownership we met a neighbour on a blind corner on the pavement. My dog was on a lead and his was off walking just ahead of him. Mine, without warning and moving like lightning, grabbed his small, elderly, terrier in the middle of its back, lifted it off the ground and was reluctant to let go. We got the terrier to the vet but spinal damage and shock caused its death in a couple of days. If his dog had been on a lead by his side the incident might not have happened. And I might not have felt guilty for months.
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That must have been a terrible experience for all concerned Tony.
I have heard that racing and coursing greyhounds are trained on cats and that is the way they kill. Certainly a good rabbiting dog will grab their prey by the back of it's neck, toss up their head (in a whiplash type movement ) , which breaks the neck of the prey and drop it continuing on to the next one and barely break their stride to do it.
I have seen Collies and ratting dogs working the same way. I think a lot of it is instinctive.
It sounds like yours hadn't quite mastered the technique. Very sad for everyone.
A friend of mine has two chihuahuas and says she is always worried when she has them loose in her local park.
I think she is right to be worried. Just about all dogs have a "prey" drive, it is how they've survived over millions of years.
That won't have helped you feel any less shocked or guilty though.

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Kerry has to be on a lead at all times when she is out [long extendable one to give her an element of freedom] unless I can be 110% certain the area is enclosed and there is nothing hare to rabbit sized running about...
...she has no recall when fixated on something else.
...she has no sense [of barriers, roads etc].
...she is faster than me [3 strides to get up to 30mph, top speed 45mph].
...she understands "chase" but not necessarily "play".

Being out on a lead, investigating smells etc is a far better life for her, I'd hope, than her previous kennel based one.
 
Langtoftlad I totally agree, anyone not knowing Greyhounds would have difficulty recognising the normally placid, sleeping Kerry to the animal she will become when her quarry is in sight.
I'm sure she loves her life now with you.
 
Val 2 dogs said:
That must have been a terrible experience for all concerned Tony.
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It was. The wife was convinced for a couple of years that I was some sort of hooligan with a trained killer. It took a long time before we could have a sensible conversation and I could explain what happened. We did eventually become friends. I've seen the kill technique with my smallest Whippet (about the size of an Iggy). We have lots of small animals that visit our garden. Including squirrels - so we're careful when letting the dogs out. On one occasion I missed a squirrel eeating from a bird table. Door to bird table about 5 yards. Bird table to squirrel safety about 6 feet. I saw the squirrel move as soon as I'd opened the door. The dog reached the squirrel and killed in the time it took me to cross the 5 yards.
 
Val 2 dogs said:
I think that is pretty harsh Chaser. That would rule out a vast number of people from the joys of having a dog and dogs confined to leads most of the time would soon become depressed, neurotic and aggressive. (n)
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We have folks here in houses with no garden, who go to work everyday and leave dogs in the house till they come home, admitted they take them for walks night and morning, but what does that entail? Walking down the lane , let them off in my field to have a shit then take them home again, why, what for?
 
chaser said:
We have folks here in houses with no garden, who go to work everyday and leave dogs in the house till they come home, admitted they take them for walks night and morning, but what does that entail? Walking down the lane , let them off in my field to have a shit then take them home again, why, what for?
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Free fertilizer...

I hope you take them wine and biscuits at Christmas

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Free fertilizer that can kill lambs or blind kids,
 
tonyidle said:
To injure a child the dog has to have a particular parasite and the child has to rub excrement in its eyes or eat it. Sheep dog poo seems to have little effect on lambs.
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I honestly don't want to keep this dog thing going on tams otherwise excellent thread, but just for information, have a look at this.

Sheep Worrying | National Sheep Association

Advice for dog owners on the risk of Sheep Worrying from the National Sheep Association.
www.nationalsheep.org.uk
 
That is a far from ideal situation you describe Chaser, but those people need educating not depriving of what might be the only source of constant affection for theirselves and or their children .

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