Tam, Jade and Franky's European Adventure

[Burgo]

Anyway people I have another issue and not sure how to proceed. This morning I left santiago do cacem and I headed up the coast to comporta where I had thought about staying but didn't like it too busy so I decided to head over to setubul.
Now I set the satnav coming out of comporta and it was trying to get me to turn left up the n253-1 now considering I'm in a van and not a boat that isn't possible without taking a ferry from the troi peninsula over to setubul.

So i ignored it and turned right heading along the n253 to alcacer do Sal where I joined the a2 or e1 I'm not sure ....

Anyway I have my satnav set to avoid tolls and I'm not registered for tolls but somehow I ended up at a toll barrier ( I hadn't passed one on entering ...i drove straight through a bit that didn't have a barrier and no one was stopping just driving through and I followed as that's the way the satnav sent me)
So I arrived at this barrier and it's asking for a ticket I don't have. So I pressed the help button and the woman tells me I have to pay €87.50 ....of course I told her that wasn't happening as I didn't pass anywhere to get a ticket and I'm totally confused.

She is adamant I have to pay this or I can't go on. ..big queue forming behind me so I agree to pay it but plan to appeal it.

Inserted my card and it won't accept it ...tried it 4 times and Still won't accept it.

I didn't have that amount of cash on me so she says she needs details to give me an invoice I'm meant to take to some shop which again I couldn't understand.

She asked my name I have her and she got that right ....6 times I tried to give her the address even spelling it and she still didn't get it properly so she doesn't have my correct address etc .

The machine has given me this invoice thing

But I've no idea what to do .....i seriously object to paying this €87.50 maximum charge for 30 minutes worth of road at best

So I need some help and advice as she says I've 8 days to pay this and she doesn't think I'll get anywhere appealing it as she says the system won't know where I joined the motorway so they charge me the maximum fee.

They have my registration number but not my correct address etc .....can they enforce this?
Are they likely to enforce it?
As far as I'm aware I didn't do anything wrong I didn't pass anything to get a ticket

So what do I do ?

Here's a photo of the invoice thing the machine gave me it's all in Portuguese and I don't understand it.View attachment 248254

I've just downloaded your picture of the receipt, and setting Google translate to Portuguese - English it made a good fist of translating it.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Principle or not I'd pay just not to stress about it............you've done well not paying for sites..........

your fine probably works out at a euro a day...result!

Pay it and relax....................

 

[Burgo]

Brisa -Concessão Rodoviria, SA Agul tha Tower Building Brisa Building 2785-599 São Domingos de Rana CRC Cascals NIPC 582 798 824 Share Capital: 75 888 888 SIMPLIFIED INVOICE Invoice: FS 12111821882/8820324 Driginal Date and Time: 2018- 88-10 12:23:05 Registration: EUBBE VNIE: Final consumer Salda: 1211-Setubal Vla: t82 Portegeiro: 81894 Entry: Per cur so.Máxino xa Title: Inval Ido / without Titul PRCRS MAIM MAXIMUM TAX 2: Ao ab air n92 t 79 d Lel 25/2886 of 38 June Class: 3 Fee: 87.5a E PAYMENT OF SERVICES MLTIBANCD 8 685 Entity: Reference 289 832 44 Amount 87, 50 VAT included at the nominal rate 6112111821802232418885 218122305082880201218 313188000888088750087 G4163618121118288838 This invoice must be settled within a maximum period of 8 days. by reference MB (48 hours after the delivery), in any booth of por tages con portageiro (Brlsa, Brisa or AEDL), or service shop Brisa and Via Verde identified in www.vlaverde.pt in the "Contacts" area shall not be punishable by an amount equal to 7.5 times the value of the respective toll charge due, not less than 2 colsa, with a maximum value of quadruple of the min. 26/2006 in accordance with Article 79 (1) of Law No 38 of June, up to the maximum levels foreseen in the General Regime of the Infrastructures NF2n - processed by certified program n.2011 / AT Thank you and Boa Viagem!

 

[monzer]

Brisa -Concessão Rodoviria, SA Agul tha Tower Building Brisa Building 2785-599 São Domingos de Rana CRC Cascals NIPC 582 798 824 Share Capital: 75 888 888 SIMPLIFIED INVOICE Invoice: FS 12111821882/8820324 Driginal Date and Time: 2018- 88-10 12:23:05 Registration: EUBBE VNIE: Final consumer Salda: 1211-Setubal Vla: t82 Portegeiro: 81894 Entry: Per cur so.Máxino xa Title: Inval Ido / without Titul PRCRS MAIM MAXIMUM TAX 2: Ao ab air n92 t 79 d Lel 25/2886 of 38 June Class: 3 Fee: 87.5a E PAYMENT OF SERVICES MLTIBANCD 8 685 Entity: Reference 289 832 44 Amount 87, 50 VAT included at the nominal rate 6112111821802232418885 218122305082880201218 313188000888088750087 G4163618121118288838 This invoice must be settled within a maximum period of 8 days. by reference MB (48 hours after the delivery), in any booth of por tages con portageiro (Brlsa, Brisa or AEDL), or service shop Brisa and Via Verde identified in www.vlaverde.pt in the "Contacts" area shall not be punishable by an amount equal to 7.5 times the value of the respective toll charge due, not less than 2 colsa, with a maximum value of quadruple of the min. 26/2006 in accordance with Article 79 (1) of Law No 38 of June, up to the maximum levels foreseen in the General Regime of the Infrastructures NF2n - processed by certified program n.2011 / AT Thank you and Boa Viagem!

Glad we got that cleared up.

 

[Northernraider]

Glad we got that cleared up.

Well that's about as clear as the original lol only my reg number is sod all like that ha ha

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[Rob and Val]

Does @JJ speak Portuguese? Would he be able to advise you as to what to say if you decide to question the validity of the invoice?

 

[Northernraider]

Does @JJ speak Portuguese? Would he be able to advise you as to what to say if you decide to question the validity of the invoice?

To be honest ive found most speak English so I'm sure someone there would ....im jist not convinced that they will reduce it as I can't prove where I joined the motorway.

I don't have anything to show which route I came ...im sure they would have cameras they could access but I believe they make easy money out of these charges.

I'll decide on Monday whether I'm going to go into the office or whether I'll jist ignore it

 

[Burgo]

Actually looking at your original pic it has the matrícula down as EU08EJG so you may get away with it if that's nothing like yours though YMMV if they go back to the original pic from the gantry and clarify it.

 

[Carol]

I have a friend who had a parking ticket , which was unjustified and arguable but still issued because ignorance is no argument officially, upshot 2 years later they are still being persued threatened with court and baliffs , and of course the fine is much more than the original amount £60 well up in the hundreds now, The hassle and concern it's caused is just not worth it pay up and move on or have it possibly dragging on for years instead of dealt with and forgotten .

 

[Northernraider]

Actually looking at your original pic it has the matrícula down as EU08EJG so you may get away with it if that's nothing like yours though YMMV if they go back to the original pic from the gantry and clarify it.

Yes that's my number lol but the translated one is nowt like it

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[Northernraider]

I have a friend who had a parking ticket , which was unjustified and arguable but still issued because ignorance is no argument officially, upshot 2 years later they are still being persued threatened with court and baliffs , and of course the fine is much more than the original amount £60 well up in the hundreds now, The hassle and concern it's caused is just not worth it pay up and move on or have it possibly dragging on for years instead of dealt with and forgotten .

In the UK perhaps but I can't see Portuguese traffic organisation sending bailiffs to Scotland lol

 

[bigtree]

If you had maybe read some info on the countries you were visiting you might have read about via verde but you seem to prefer doing your own thing,not that I’am criticising you for that but there are a lot of knowledgeable people of here that could have advised you. From Comporta you hit the IC1 before the A2 so not sure how your satnav led you onto it,sometimes listening to experienced travelers is better than flying solo.

 

[bigtree]

You have missed some fantastic places on your way north after Porto Covo,hopefully you won’t miss the others besides Pingo Doce,look forward to your onward travels Tam.

 

[Northernraider]

If you had maybe read some info on the countries you were visiting you might have read about via verde but you seem to prefer doing your own thing,not that I’am criticising you for that but there are a lot of knowledgeable people of here that could have advised you. From Comporta you hit the IC1 before the A2 so not sure how your satnav led you onto it,sometimes listening to experienced travelers is better than flying solo.

I've never been on a toll road in my life not even the m6 toll. The sat nav is set to avoid toll roads so I've no idea either but as I said earlier it was playing silly buggers when I left comporto as it tried to get me to turn left and follow the n253-1 in which case I'd have needed a ferry ....so I ignored it and headed on the n253. ....it took a good while before it stopped trying to get me to turn around.

It brought me on to the a2 at this junction

No idea why but as I also said earlier often in spain it would take me on a roads between tolls so i guess i thought thats what it was doing on this occasion ..... as I approached the gantry the satnav said keep left so I did and there was no barrier so I drove straight through following the other cars .

Never gave it a second thought till I came accross the second gantry and required a ticket to exit.

Whilst I appreciate there's people on here who are more experienced with Portugal etc ...i don't tend to ask everyone which roads to take everytime I move and I wasn't aware there was a problem with the route till it was too late.


Now looking at my route from here over to Lisbon I can't see any roads that aren't an A road so I'm completely confused as to how I'm meant to get over there

 

[Northernraider]

You have missed some fantastic places on your way north after Porto Covo,hopefully you won’t miss the others besides Pingo Doce,look forward to your onward travels Tam.

I stopped at a few places between Porto covo I just didn't stay overnight. I'm also aware that I've a fair bit of Portugal to fit in before the end of the month so can't visit everywhere unfortunately but I had got tired playing roulette with the gnr in the national park so decided to just get out of it ....mlst places were a little remote anyway and while I do like that at times I like to break it up with somewhere I can go cycle and see a town etc so I'll probably spend the weekend up this bit of coast but want to head over to Lisbon on Monday

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[2657]

I think this is where you went wrong in the first place when leaving the N5 for the clearly marked motorway, 'portagem' means toll road

Once on the slip road there is no way out but the toll booth is clearly marked to take a ticket, even in English, with the Via Verde lane clearly marked.

At the toll booth again the Via Verde lane is clearly marked, did this not set any alarms ringing in you r head.

I realise the toll system in Portugal is confusing, especially as you have not used a toll road anywhere before but a little research on this forum would have brought up this link which I myself have posted several times.

Link Removed


This post is not meant as a criticism but hoping to be helpful to you in the future.

 

[Northernraider]

I think this is where you went wrong in the first place when leaving the N5 for the clearly marked motorway, 'portagem' means toll road

View attachment 248384

Once on the slip road there is no way out but the toll booth is clearly marked to take a ticket, even in English, with the Via Verde lane clearly marked.
View attachment 248385

At the toll booth again the Via Verde lane is clearly marked, did this not set any alarms ringing in you r head.
View attachment 248387

I realise the toll system in Portugal is confusing, especially as you have not used a toll road anywhere before but a little research on this forum would have brought up this link which I myself have posted several times.

Link Removed


This post is not meant as a criticism but hoping to be helpful to you in the future.

Yes it's stupid but having not used one and not speaking Portuguese I had no idea what via verde meant I was too busy trying to keep left as the satnav was saying as there were cars buzzing all over the place at the time.

Makes sense when I look at it now but only after the fact ....at the time I had no idea

Never even noticed that sign on the right saying take a ticket

 

[2657]

Yes it's stupid but having not used one and not speaking Portuguese I had no idea what via verde meant I was too busy trying to keep left as the satnav was saying as there were cars buzzing all over the place at the time.

Makes sense when I look at it now but only after the fact ....at the time I had no idea

Never even noticed that sign on the right saying take a ticket

Hindsight is a great thing

 

[Riverbankannie]

The view is always different in the sunshine
View attachment 248132

Watch the European Champs womens road race on now! Hubby and I busy judging best bum as such a silly event cannot get exited about results.

 

[Northernraider]

Hindsight is a great thing

Yes isn't it just.

Don't know what's happening with my satnav it doesn't seem to like Portugal.
Just updated it two weeks ago aswell but it's taking me some very funny roads

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[chaser]

in my experiance of parking tickets in portugal , i think that ,that ticket could possably mean that you only have to pay the fine if you dont pay the toll within 8 days, we had one similer in algarve parking , didnt know you had to pay and got a ticket with various amounts on but when we went to pay it , it turned out we only had to pay a days parking fee if it was within 8 days which was 8 euros whereas there was 100s printed on the ticket.

 

[2657]

Yes isn't it just.

Don't know what's happening with my satnav it doesn't seem to like Portugal.
Just updated it two weeks ago aswell but it's taking me some very funny roads

I have had a satnav for a couple of years now but am not convinced of their long distance route planning capabilities. Mine is a Snooper, without the 'snoop' function and the 2 main settings I use are shortest distance or shortest time, either one would take me on some strange routes if I followed it, I tend to use it mainly for finding places rather than routes and do my own planning with a map.

Ideally I would like a satnav that I could programme way points into and then I decide on the general route and the satnav helps me navigate my preferred route, don't know whether such a beast exists!

 

[BreweryDave]

Yes isn't it just.

Don't know what's happening with my satnav it doesn't seem to like Portugal.
Just updated it two weeks ago aswell but it's taking me some very funny roads

Have you tried the snooper I gave you?

 

[BreweryDave]

Ideally I would like a satnav that I could programme way points into and then I decide on the general route and the satnav helps me navigate my preferred route, don't know whether such a beast exists!

My Aguri does. Either choose a multi stop route, or an A to B route then click ‘via’ and add as many points as you wish. ( including no toll option)

 

[Ditcha]

Tam does your dash cam not plot a map of were you have been and times or if you have a tracker you can plot times and vehicle movements so could use to prove were and when you entered the toll road

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[ianandkath]

Ideally I would like a satnav that I could programme way points into and then I decide on the general route and the satnav helps me navigate my preferred route, don't know whether such a beast exists!

my cheap chinise satav allows waypoints to be added. can yours not add via settings.

 

[Northernraider]

Have you tried the snooper I gave you?

Yeah it's not working
Think the touch screen is a bit wonky

 

[Northernraider]

in my experiance of parking tickets in portugal , i think that ,that ticket could possably mean that you only have to pay the fine if you dont pay the toll within 8 days, we had one similer in algarve parking , didnt know you had to pay and got a ticket with various amounts on but when we went to pay it , it turned out we only had to pay a days parking fee if it was within 8 days which was 8 euros whereas there was 100s printed on the ticket.

Not in this case they want 87.50 because they claim they don't know where I entered the motorway so that's the maximum fee

 

[DBK]

The Portuguese tolls are confusing. We had a tag for our trip there this year. It seemed to work well on the roads with overhead gantries - it would beep as we went under them. The Via Verde lanes were odd as it didn't beep but we still got a green light as we exited. We've been back for over a month and so far no brown envelopes with a Portuguese stamp have arrived yet.

 

[2657]

my cheap chinise satav allows waypoints to be added. can yours not add via settings.

To be honest it's such a PIA to navigate the menu that I have never really delved but I may have a look.

I am not really impressed with the Snooper, especially as it was relatively expensive, it has already been back once under warranty and is very slow at picking up the satellites.

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