Tam, Jade and Franky's European Adventure

[Northernraider]

I think I get it now.........be a FLT so the money you can save in aires and sites is saved up...........to pay the fines

No fines

 

[Northernraider]

And where are you ?

Where am I as in place or where am I dumping?

I'm in the middle of a pine forest somewhere with terrible internet connection hence no photos

As for dumping I did all that at intermarche this morning so I'm good for at least a week but I'll be moving tomorrow

 

[bigtree]

Where am I as in place or where am I dumping?

I'm in the middle of a pine forest somewhere with terrible internet connection hence no photos

As for dumping I did all that at intermarche this morning so I'm good for at least a week but I'll be moving tomorrow

I have an idea where you are but a name would be better.

 

[shawn&emma]

Maybe the supermarket prices are dearer nearer the tourist/coastal areas. In central Portugal we mainly shop in Pingo, Continent or Lidl, We have a Intermarche but only go in there for a couple of bits we can't get elsewhere as we do find that dearer. Part of the reason we like it here so much is that the cost of living is far cheaper than the uk.

 

[2657]

Prefer Pingo, always check out the very good weekly offers,chickens as low as €1.49/kilo, pork is always cheap compared to everywhere, Lidl and Aldi next, don't like Continente or Intermarche.
Never pay full price for Super Bock or Sagres beer, always on offer somewhere.

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[Northernraider]

The only one ive not been in yet is pingo

I find Lidl is crap , intermarche very expensive and continente is also quite expensive.

Could just be down to the stuff we buy ...but in comparison to mercadona I used in Spain and asda back home I just find it dearer here , the fuel and lpg is also dearer ...which is my main expenses .

 

[Reallyretired]

Don't assume the fuel in UK is what it was when you were last here. Keeps going up I'm afraid, even in Eastbourne, which is usually a cheap area due to loads of supermarkets. I doubt if Portugal is really more expensive.

 

[Northernraider]

Anyway people I have another issue and not sure how to proceed. This morning I left santiago do cacem and I headed up the coast to comporta where I had thought about staying but didn't like it too busy so I decided to head over to setubul.
Now I set the satnav coming out of comporta and it was trying to get me to turn left up the n253-1 now considering I'm in a van and not a boat that isn't possible without taking a ferry from the troi peninsula over to setubul.

So i ignored it and turned right heading along the n253 to alcacer do Sal where I joined the a2 or e1 I'm not sure ....

Anyway I have my satnav set to avoid tolls and I'm not registered for tolls but somehow I ended up at a toll barrier ( I hadn't passed one on entering ...i drove straight through a bit that didn't have a barrier and no one was stopping just driving through and I followed as that's the way the satnav sent me)
So I arrived at this barrier and it's asking for a ticket I don't have. So I pressed the help button and the woman tells me I have to pay €87.50 ....of course I told her that wasn't happening as I didn't pass anywhere to get a ticket and I'm totally confused.

She is adamant I have to pay this or I can't go on. ..big queue forming behind me so I agree to pay it but plan to appeal it.

Inserted my card and it won't accept it ...tried it 4 times and Still won't accept it.

I didn't have that amount of cash on me so she says she needs details to give me an invoice I'm meant to take to some shop which again I couldn't understand.

She asked my name I have her and she got that right ....6 times I tried to give her the address even spelling it and she still didn't get it properly so she doesn't have my correct address etc .

The machine has given me this invoice thing

But I've no idea what to do .....i seriously object to paying this €87.50 maximum charge for 30 minutes worth of road at best

So I need some help and advice as she says I've 8 days to pay this and she doesn't think I'll get anywhere appealing it as she says the system won't know where I joined the motorway so they charge me the maximum fee.

They have my registration number but not my correct address etc .....can they enforce this?
Are they likely to enforce it?
As far as I'm aware I didn't do anything wrong I didn't pass anything to get a ticket

So what do I do ?

Here's a photo of the invoice thing the machine gave me it's all in Portuguese and I don't understand it.

 

[Val 3 dogs]

Sh*t Tam, sorry can't offer any help, only that if you end up being confronted by anyone face to face don't lose your temper, keep calm,even apologise. Good luck.

 

[Southdowners]

Can you type it in to google translate to give you an idea what its saying?

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[Northernraider]

Sh*t Tam, sorry can't offer any help, only that if you end up being confronted by anyone face to face don't lose your temper, keep calm,even apologise. Good luck.

I've just been in to one of the post offices and she has told me to go to the brisa office at almada and speak to them..

I think what has happened is my satnav has not picked up the toll road.

When I came off the n253 the satnav told me to stay left in the left lane which I now know was the via verde lane or something which is for people who have an electronic device in their car for the tolls.
Obviously having never been on a toll road I didn't know that and because after the gantry the lane on the right went a different direction to the one on the left I assumed the toll road was going south when I was going north as I've often joined roads in Spain just after the tolls.

So I didn't have a ticket and the automated machine doesn't know where I joined the motorway. ..but I do as I came off the n253.

I guess I can only go to the brisa office and try and plead my case. It's an innocent mistake on my part just not used to the system and having never used the toll roads.

Hopefully if I explain that they will understand and I'll jist have to pay the proper toll for that section of road.

If not I'll be well pissed off cause €87.50 is outrageous


Woman in post office says lots of tourists get caught out with tolls here

 

[2657]

Leave Portugal in 8 days and then ignore it, you intend to sell the van anyway . If you do ever return it will be in a different vehicle
The drive through lanes are only for registered Portuguese vehicles or Sanef toll tag things,the Portuguese toll road system is confusing to many.
Lots of official Portuguese card machines will not accept foreign cards.

 

[Grianan]

Hi Tam, I’m not bad at Spanish but guessing at Portuguese. It seems to say that it has to be paid within 8 days but 2 days after It gives a website where you can find out where to pay, other than toll booths. It then goes on to penalties for failure to pay ... I do t totally get this but it says 7.5 times value of what is owed.
I think I’d be finding someone better equipped than I am to help translate ... and maybe try the website too.
Good Luck!

 

[Northernraider]

Leave Portugal in 8 days and then ignore it, you intend to sell the van anyway . If you do ever return it will be in a different vehicle
The drive through lanes are only for registered Portuguese vehicles or Sanef toll tag things,the Portuguese toll road system is confusing to many.
Lots of official Portuguese card machines will not accept foreign cards.

I don't plan to leave Portugal till the end of the month though....i don't however plan to use toll roads.. but then I didn't plan that one and not sure how it happened.

I'm certainly reluctant to pay that amount as I think it's unjust for what at worst is an innocent mistake
I'm happy to pay the actual toll price for that section of road however .....but I'm not sure they will accept that.

I saw something online that says they can't enforce foreign vehicles but not sure about that

 

[2657]

I don't plan to leave Portugal till the end of the month though....i don't however plan to use toll roads.. but then I didn't plan that one and not sure how it happened.

I'm certainly reluctant to pay that amount as I think it's unjust for what at worst is an innocent mistake
I'm happy to pay the actual toll price for that section of road however .....but I'm not sure they will accept that.

I saw something online that says they can't enforce foreign vehicles but not sure about that

Good luck but my experience with Portuguese beaurocracy is not good, the chances of getting pulled are remote but I laud your efforts to do the right thing

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[Val 3 dogs]

"In the good old days " long before I was old enough to have a driving licence a well known mantra was "ignorance of the law is no excuse".
I think you neither want, nor should endeavour to leave the country without paying. Try explaining, if that doesn't work just pay up with good grace. Life is a learning experience. As an honourable FLT you've saved a lot and enjoyed a lot you can't win em all. Shrug and don't let it spoil your visit to Portugal.

 

[jumartoo]

Well under 50 cents a day since you set off. When you look at it like that it's not too bad . Hope you can talk your way out of it though. It's not the money it's the principle.

We've just had to fork out almost £2,000 for an alternator, tensioner and belt because we broke down in Norway!!! My brother is a mechanic and was almost crying for us but he's in the UK and we aren't. The money's spent and we're continuing our trip. Your fine will soon be absorbed. Drink less beer!!!

 

[Northernraider]

"In the good old days " long before I was old enough to have a driving licence a well known mantra was "ignorance of the law is no excuse".
I think you neither want, nor should endeavour to leave the country without paying. Try explaining, if that doesn't work just pay up with good grace. Life is a learning experience. As an honourable FLT you've saved a lot and enjoyed a lot you can't win em all. Shrug and don't let it spoil your visit to Portugal.

But that's the thing Val I've not broke a law I just made a mistake and didn't get a ticket from the machine as I was in the wrong lane.
But €87.50 is a lot of money to hand over for about 10 miles of motorway.

Well under 50 cents a day since you set off. When you look at it like that it's not too bad . Hope you can talk your way out of it though. It's not the money it's the principle.

We've just had to fork out almost £2,000 for an alternator, tensioner and belt because we broke down in Norway!!! My brother is a mechanic and was almost crying for us but he's in the UK and we aren't. The money's spent and we're continuing our trip. Your fine will soon be absorbed. Drink less beer!!!

Yep it's very much the principle and an honest mistake so I'm seriously considering @matamoras option and just leaving it then if they contact me when I'm back home I'll send an email explaining the situation and the fact I couldnt understand the woman through the machine..
By the looks of the charge they already want 7.5 times the cost of the toll as I imagine it would have been only a few euros for that distance.

 

[Northernraider]

I plan to be out of Portugal by the 1st of September

 

[Northernraider]

I've stopped over by the coast for the night anyway and that office is closed on a Sunday so I have till Monday to think about the options.

If I was sure they will reduce it once I explain then that's what id do but if they are adamant I pay the €87.50 I'm reluctant to do that.


Fed up with automated machines. .just had a nightmare in a petrol station with one too and fecking other drivers are so impatient ....i swear If I hear one more horn peeped at me I'm gonna throttle someone.

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[Northernraider]

Well under 50 cents a day since you set off. When you look at it like that it's not too bad . Hope you can talk your way out of it though. It's not the money it's the principle.

We've just had to fork out almost £2,000 for an alternator, tensioner and belt because we broke down in Norway!!! My brother is a mechanic and was almost crying for us but he's in the UK and we aren't. The money's spent and we're continuing our trip. Your fine will soon be absorbed. Drink less beer!!!

That's extortionate for an alternator and belt ....breakdowns are a nightmare I can sympathise after my clutch going.
Wouldn't have been so bad if I'd been keeping this van for a few years but as I plan to sell its just money down the drain in my book as it doesn't increase the value

I think because I'm on my last couple of months now reality is kicking in that I'm going to be living off savings till after Christmas or I'm going to have to pick up some work as soon as I'm home that I'm now trying to spend wisely so things like this stupid charge I could do without

Couple of enquiries of here though with 2 couples interested in buying franky ...both offered p/exchanges but ones a little too small for me I think and the other a little over what I want to take value wise in p/exch

 

[Shrimp]

I’m sorry you’re having problems with Portugal-parking/fines/shopping etc-you don’t seem very happy with the country!
We were thinking of going down to Portugal in the winter (Jan, Feb & some of March) but we’ve looked at the fuel cost-getting there & back to UK and the cost of staying there for about 2-3 months.
We think it will cost about the same as staying in UK.
Reading your posts about Portugal we’ve decided to go back to our winter property sit in France.

 

[Northernraider]

I’m sorry you’re having problems with Portugal-parking/fines/shopping etc-you don’t seem very happy with the country!
We were thinking of going down to Portugal in the winter (Jan, Feb & some of March) but we’ve looked at the fuel cost-getting there & back to UK and the cost of staying there for about 2-3 months.
We think it will cost about the same as staying in UK.
Reading your posts about Portugal we’ve decided to go back to our winter property sit in France.

Please don't be put off by just my thoughts ...i have to say there's some bits I've liked about Portugal but I just dont seem to find it like Spain. ..i like the beaches but I haven't found the character here like I did in Spain, I don't find the town's as picturesque or as nice castles forts cathedrals etc as I found in Spain ...but I am aware that I've only really done the coast and around the Algarve.

Between that and it being more expensive I've just not felt that enamoured by it but we are all different.
It's also been cooler here and a lot windier.

I was actually considering cutting accross land and going back up via Spain instead but decided to stick it out and give Portugal a chance and I also want to see the north west coast of Spain before heading in to France.

There are a few benefits like the English speaking etc here ....but I think that's me just being lazy

I think I'm also probably a little homesick at this point although I'm certain a few months back in UK and I'll be cured of that lol.

 

[John65]

If you know roughly the time and which junction could they not check cctv? A friend didn’t pick his ticket up in Italy came off at next junction to sort it out and got a €90 fine. I did the same thing in Slovenia (no ticket ) got to the other end the woman checked her screen and said no problem and just charged us the toll fee.So they probably could check if they wanted to. Otherwise smile cough up and enjoy the rest of a fantastic trip.

 

[Northernraider]

If you know roughly the time and which junction could they not check cctv? A friend didn’t pick his ticket up in Italy came off at next junction to sort it out and got a €90 fine. I did the same thing in Slovenia (no ticket ) got to the other end the woman checked her screen and said no problem and just charged us the toll fee.So they probably could check if they wanted to. Otherwise smile cough up and enjoy the rest of a fantastic trip.

Yes I said that to the woman on the help thing at the booth ...i said there's cameras everywhere on the toll gantries but she kept saying I had to pay it and I could write and complain if I wanted.

Which is why I'm thinking I probably won't get anywhere going in to their office to explain.

So I may just do as @matamoros said above and ignore it and if they send a bill to my home address I'll appeal it then.

I'm not sure if tolls work the same way as speeding fines etc where they can access your details from DVLA through the registration number.
Certainly from the details she took from me she won't get far as I tried to give her the address etc 4 or 5 times and each time she got it wrong and eventually just printed that ticket out and opened the barrier.

It's not an immense amount of money but I'm not giving in on principle to pay it

If I thought they'd reduce it to the toll fee I'd do that but I'm not sure they will and not sure if I go in and they refuse I'd I can then just refuse to pay and walk out or not.


I read a think online saying that local cars and hire cars they can chase and enforce but apparently foreign registrations they can't....so I'm not sure

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[2657]

Yes I said that to the woman on the help thing at the booth ...i said there's cameras everywhere on the toll gantries but she kept saying I had to pay it and I could write and complain if I wanted.

Which is why I'm thinking I probably won't get anywhere going in to their office to explain.

So I may just do as @matamoros said above and ignore it and if they send a bill to my home address I'll appeal it then.

I'm not sure if tolls work the same way as speeding fines etc where they can access your details from DVLA through the registration number.
Certainly from the details she took from me she won't get far as I tried to give her the address etc 4 or 5 times and each time she got it wrong and eventually just printed that ticket out and opened the barrier.

It's not an immense amount of money but I'm not giving in on principle to pay it

If I thought they'd reduce it to the toll fee I'd do that but I'm not sure they will and not sure if I go in and they refuse I'd I can then just refuse to pay and walk out or not.


I read a think online saying that local cars and hire cars they can chase and enforce but apparently foreign registrations they can't....so I'm not sure

I think it would be difficult to pursue, probably not impossible but unlikely in my opinion, for what that is worth.
The main problem would be if returning in the same vehicle, they do keep records as I found out a few years ago when the introduction of the electronic toll system was chaotic.

 

[monzer]

Just do what i do whenever a problem arises. Ignore it and hope it goes away.*




*Probably not the best advice if the problem is any kind of sexually transmitted infection.

 

[Bryden]

I'm not sure if tolls work the same way as speeding fines etc where they can access your details from DVLA through the registration number.e

Not sure about Portugal but Eire have access to the DVLA database as we have just had a letter about nonpayment of the Dublin toll. Although we had already paid it ! 3 months after using it...

 

[Northernraider]

I think it would be difficult to pursue, probably not impossible but unlikely in my opinion, for what that is worth.
The main problem would be if returning in the same vehicle, they do keep records as I found out a few years ago when the introduction of the electronic toll system was chaotic.

I've no intention of returning in the same vehicle that's for sure ....not entirely sure if return at all so far lol but that may change over the next couple of weeks if the north is a lot nicer than the south but I plan to be out of Portugal by the end of the month as plan to be back home mid October now at the latest and I've a long way to drive back via France.

 

[Northernraider]

Not sure about Portugal but Eire have access to the DVLA database as we have just had a letter about nonpayment of the Dublin toll. Although we had already paid it ! 3 months after using it...

Aye they might have I know the police can but wasn't sure about the tolls ....this website I found online seems to think not but I don't know. Either way if they contacted me back hope I'm not sure how easy it would be to enforce and they'd be getting an email telling them the situation the same as if I went in to the office.

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