Tam & co the great winter escape

[Gina M]

As I have said previously I am not a dog, or cat lover and I therefore know absolutely NOTHING about them so, do you have to use the word/command 'come' when you want her to come to you, could she be frightened of the word
Happy to be called a fool because as I have said
PS beautiful dog.

You are right. I agree with you. Seems it's the word "come" she has suddenly become afraid of.

 

[barsteward]

She hasn't done it in 4 months if i don't reel her in she will not come , she will zig zag back and forth and try to pull away. Whenever she hears the word come she wants to get as far away as possible

I'm no dog expert and I'm the last person to give advise but first thing that comes to mind is may be just may be she has at some time been tethered and unable to avoid any previous miss treatment. I have had six dogs over the years the last four rescue and only one of those last four could I walk off the lead or get them to return once on a mission.

My present dog was two years old when he first arrived with us and still after ten years will not return on command and I decided some time ago that he never would so in my case he is always on a lead. I would love that not to be the case but it is what it is.

I think you are lucky to have two dogs that you can walk and they return and they show the affection and love ( in both directions) that you/they deserve and I also think that given time Ela will probably give you more of her trust, it would be such a shame after going through so much in her short life to be parted and moved on again.

It's obvious yer a big soft yin so give her a bit more time, I'm sure your patience will be rewarded ten fold.

good luck Tam.

 

[Northernraider]

I'm no dog expert and I'm the last person to give advise but first thing that comes to mind is may be just may be she has at some time been tethered and unable to avoid any previous miss treatment. I have had six dogs over the years the last four rescue and only one of those last four could I walk off the lead or get them to return once on a mission.

My present dog was two years old when he first arrived with us and still after ten years will not return on command and I decided some time ago that he never would so in my case he is always on a lead. I would love that not to be the case but it is what it is.

I think you are lucky to have two dogs that you can walk and they return and they show the affection and love ( in both directions) that you/they deserve and I also think that given time Ela will probably give you more of her trust, it would be such a shame after going through so much in her short life to be parted and moved on again.

It's obvious yer a big soft yin so give her a bit more time, I'm sure your patience will be rewarded ten fold.

good luck Tam.

Im quite surprised at how many of you are saying you have dogs that you never let off the lead.

Im curious how you get hold of them if they ever slip it as that's always my worry.

Having watched umpteen dog training videos where they always make it look so easy i have ordered a few tricks of the trade namely a slip lead and a proper long training lead rather than the made up rope ive been using till now. They should arrive on tuesday


Im also going to start just hand feeding her too as that should slow down her eating and get her used to having to take food)treats out my hand .

 

[Dazzlin]

Not wanting to cause upset, but too much doggy talk and not enough Vario!

What are your plans for the conversion next?

 

[Val 3 dogs]

Good on ya Tam! With time, patience and consistency you WILL get it sorted, as Minxy said Ela had had a tremendous lot of changes in a short period of time, it must be very bewildering for her.
One useful tip I have read of is, when you are in tbe house (Mum's) or your caravan, keep her on the lead at all times, so she becomes used to remaining close to you and moving about with you at all times.
As I now can only walk with the aid of two walking poles, I went on line and purchased a broad elasticated belt with a 'D' ring attachment for a dog lead, for running with your dog (the lead has two clips and two hand loops), so can be used either as a normal lead or as a shorter length lead if you are in traffic or a crowded pavement situation or simply clipped on to the belt. This arrangement leaves both your hands free to go about your everyday tasks but would ensure Ela was under your control should she take fright or behave inappropriately at any time. Good luck.

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[gpat]

Im quite surprised at how many of you are saying you have dogs that you never let off the lead.

Im curious how you get hold of them if they ever slip it as that's always my worry.

Having watched umpteen dog training videos where they always make it look so easy i have ordered a few tricks of the trade namely a slip lead and a proper long training lead rather than the made up rope ive been using till now. They should arrive on tuesday


Im also going to start just hand feeding her too as that should slow down her eating and get her used to having to take food)treats out my hand .

My daughters dog never goes off the lead now. I think it's mostly her anxiety because he once ran off and she doesnt dare to try anymore.

I think if you get into a big open space that has no way out then that's a good place to train. Like a park. In my experience cheese is irresistible to dogs. Do it when she is really hungry. She'll soon get the hang of it.

 

[15edward]

We got our collie from a rescue supposedly 8 weeks old but not even properly weaned. He has a very pampered life, is much loved and his foibles and separation anxiety pampered to.
Every day every time we go to put his collar and lead on he cringes as though that’s when we’ll start to beat him….
it’s bit better after 8 years

 

[Northernraider]

Not wanting to cause upset, but too much doggy talk and not enough Vario!

What are your plans for the conversion next?

Wont be near the vario for a while, i need to find a car , a job , clean up and mot the iveco before i can start that

 

[Zoobec]

My dog is 9 months old and his recall is usually good but occasionally (out of the blue ) it isn’t So he gets off lead on walks only when there’s a group of other dogs with good recall, then pack mental means he sticks with them. Other than that he is on a 10m flexi lead or on a 20m long/lunge line. I make liver cake to chop up as treats, which he loves. I also hand fed him exclusively at one stage to up his engagement with me. I find making sure he hasn’t been fed before a walk or training session helps. I can post the liver cake recipe if you want?

 

[chaser]

I am one of the ones who you said shouldn't comment, and I know nothing about dog training, but do you think trying a few Greek words might help she may know what you mean then.
I am being serious, if she already knew some Greek commands, you might be saying something that means quite the opposite to what she knew.

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[mitzimad]

I am one of the ones who you said shouldn't comment, and I know nothing about dog training, but do you think trying a few Greek words might help she may know what you mean then.
I am being serious, if she already knew some Greek commands, you might be saying something that means quite the opposite to what she knew.

i dread googling the greek for come

 

[Northernraider]

I am one of the ones who you said shouldn't comment, and I know nothing about dog training, but do you think trying a few Greek words might help she may know what you mean then.
I am being serious, if she already knew some Greek commands, you might be saying something that means quite the opposite to what she knew.

I already do

Ela means come

Ela mou means come to me

Unfortunately i think that might have been part of the problem ..i don't think fir a second she doesn't understand her name or the "come" comand now . She chooses to ignore it when it suits her. If she thinks she has no choice , like in the van ( enclosed space) she will come.
The more space she has and the harder she thinks it will be for me to catch her ie no lead attached then she ignores the comand. She's got away with ignoring it for a long time i now have to train that iut of her.

 

[Northernraider]

i dread googling the greek for come

The greek for come is Ela


Thats how the name stuck

 

[Podney]

I also think you should use a word other than “come”. It doesn’t matter what the word is obviously,but would suggest a word that is two syllables and clear,like “bikky“ for example.

Have you tried making her come for her dinner? Put the food down when she’s a few yards away then call her with your new word,then reward her with her dinner. She will the associate that word with something nice.

I believe that 99% of dog training is to do with association. She probably associates the word come with being tied up and left on her own for hours or days on end,as somebody else said.

Good luck

 

[gpat]

I already do

Ela means come

Ela mou means come to me

Unfortunately i think that might have been part of the problem ..i don't think fir a second she doesn't understand her name or the "come" comand now . She chooses to ignore it when it suits her. If she thinks she has no choice , like in the van ( enclosed space) she will come.
The more space she has and the harder she thinks it will be for me to catch her ie no lead attached then she ignores the comand. She's got away with ignoring it for a long time i now have to train that iut of her.

Yes its tricky once they get this habit. My mum had an Afghan hound that would never come back. Its naughtiness sometimes. They know what you want but they are enjoying the freedom too much.

Another tactic is to show no interest. Go and hide somewhere. If they cant see you it unnerves them. If you keep doing it they actually start keeping one eye on you.

Again you have to be in a secure place. Some parks have off lead areas that are fenced in and that's a good place. She is still young enough to have this trained out of her.

Signed
The dog whisperer

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[gpat]

The greek for come is Ela


Thats how the name stuck

Do you not get funny looks when you are shouting Ela Ela on the beach?

 

[Northernraider]

Do you not get funny looks when you are shouting Ela Ela on the beach?

Yes i got a few comments in greece. Especially from the german woman in the Vets. Whats her name? Ela! , Ah another ela they all get called ela

 

[Northernraider]

Yes its tricky once they get this habit. My mum had an Afghan hound that would never come back. Its naughtiness sometimes. They know what you want but they are enjoying the freedom too much.

Another tactic is to show no interest. Go and hide somewhere. If they cant see you it unnerves them. If you keep doing it they actually start keeping one eye on you.

Again you have to be in a secure place. Some parks have off lead areas that are fenced in and that's a good place. She is still young enough to have this trained out of her.

Signed
The dog whisperer

Yep thats why i was looking forward to mums back garden as it is enclosed . I think its getting her to engage thats the first hurdle as she tends to pretty much ignore me unless jade or milo want attention then she gets jealous and wants attention . But you offer her it she isn't interested. Again ive been watching a few videos of how to apparently get her in that frame of mind but it doesn't always work.

And i cannot physically get my voice ti sound like some of these trainers. Ive tried lol

 

[daveinspain]

Well Tam, nothing else is working, so I´ll add the thought that came to me last night when I couldn´t sleep.
The problem definitely is not you!
I think Ela has been abused in a house in the past, and associates houses with abuse - hence the cowering, hiding behind the furniture and not wanting to come back into the house from the garden. This probably also translates as a fear of any enclosed space, so she´s happiest running free so she can escape any potential abuse (in her mind).
I think it will take a dog behavioural expert to overcome this problem, I certainly have no solutions, unfortunately.
Fingers crossed you can overcome the memories of her previous (suspected) abuse.

 

[Billylou]

I also think you should use a word other than “come”. It doesn’t matter what the word is obviously,but would suggest a word that is two syllables and clear,like “bikky“ for example.

Have you tried making her come for her dinner? Put the food down when she’s a few yards away then call her with your new word,then reward her with her dinner. She will the associate that word with something nice.

I believe that 99% of dog training is to do with association. She probably associates the word come with being tied up and left on her own for hours or days on end,as somebody else said.

Good luck

Totally agree. We’re new to dog ownership and our trainer gave us some great advice. Have a unique word(s) for recall that are not used for anything else. So we started with “pup pup pup” and every time the dog responded he got a treat, the response could be anything from him looking at us to walking back to us and when he came for his food. We would do this repeatedly day in day out. When we got to the stage where we believed he knew what was happening we introduced a whistle and blew 3 short pips along with “pup pup pup”. He’s 6 months old now and recognises what the command is and comes back. In the house it’s “pup pup pup” and when his run off in the park we use the whistle. One last thing, when Ela looks at you without you trying to get her attention praise her and give her a treat. It’s called “checking in”. This develops the relationship between you both and over time you’ll find Ela will be looking up at you a lot more either at home or on a walk. Each time give her praise and maybe a treat. We have found that our dog looks at us a lot more now when we’re out and we’re able to communicate better, it gives us confidence that we have a little more control. Sorry if this more of the same. Good luck and I think we’d all enjoy reading future posts about her developmen.

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[reckless]

Just a suggestion, Tam. I use a dog whistle as the cue for Roly to return because I didn't want to be that owner shouting 'Fenton' while the dog ignored me (check YouTube if you haven't heard of Fenton). She very well knows the cue and comes back like a bullet (for food reward) maybe 75% of the time but not if she's on the scent of something disgusting to eat (now might be a good time to introduce a whistle if you're moving to hand feeding)
We're very careful where we let her off lead. Never before had a dog so willful and spent hundreds on training, behaviourist, equipment etc. She's now 4 and we've accepted this is how it is.
Really hope you can find the answer. She's a beautiful dog and you obviously want her to stay in your family.
P.S. maybe a separate dog thread as many of us are so invested??

 

[The Dudess]

Ela Mou means my Ela. The Greek for 'here' is etho, so to say Ela come here you would say Ela ela etho, which the Greeks would shorten to eletho (emphasis on the EleTHO), so Ela eletho. Not sure this helps but worth a try. I'm wondering if calling her Ela has confused her as she can't differentiate between her name and the command to come. Anyway, hope you manage to get it sorted as I know it would break your heart to have to rehome her.

On another note, we have a rescue from Portugal who was a street dog - 3 years later he still flinches if I approach him with my hands from the top of his head as opposed to under his chin.

 

[Janine]

Have a look at Clicker training too, maybe?

 

[Podney]

Just a suggestion, Tam. I use a dog whistle as the cue for Roly to return because I didn't want to be that owner shouting 'Fenton' while the dog ignored me (check YouTube if you haven't heard of Fenton). She very well knows the cue and comes back like a bullet (for food reward) maybe 75% of the time but not if she's on the scent of something disgusting to eat (now might be a good time to introduce a whistle if you're moving to hand feeding)
We're very careful where we let her off lead. Never before had a dog so willful and spent hundreds on training, behaviourist, equipment etc. She's now 4 and we've accepted this is how it is.
Really hope you can find the answer. She's a beautiful dog and you obviously want her to stay in your family.
P.S. maybe a separate dog thread as many of us are so invested??

Very good idea. We had a dog that did not respond to a voice command to come,but would respond immediately to the whistle. Two short blasts and she’d run to us hell for leather. Of course it has to be associated with a nice reward that is given every time during early training,then less so once established.

 

[gpat]

And i cannot physically get my voice ti sound like some of these trainers. Ive tried lol

That's a good point. Some dogs find mens voices scary. You feel silly trying to so a falsetto voice pleading for the bloody dog to come back. It's hard not to get cross. I've been there.

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[Helen Ariel]

Well after 2 days of enclosed but larger space , im still getting nowhere with ela's recall. If anything its actually worse , sge simply will not come. In fact she will do anything other than come , she will try to get further away , will try to get behind furniture etc to hide and behaves like i was in the habit of hitting her , cowering, backing away etc ...which to be honest bloody hurts as ive done nothing but spoil that dog since i got her. If i take her in to the back garden or the house and she isnt on a lead its almost impossible to get her back on a lead or to get her to come out the house etc. The only way is if i just go out and she will eventually follow ...which of course meanss mum has to then get up and follow closing all the doors. Doesn't matter how much i try to coax her with treats etc she won't come. And when you try to get hold of her she panics and bolts ..so we've already had a broken ornament and an oil burner knocked over and wax sent splashing everywhere I know its early days and she might be strange with the house and the caravan etc but already its causing stress and mum's not what id call enthusiastic. Im at a loss

Im currently trying to find a local trainer/ behaviourist to speak with them and see if they have any ideas. Its difficult when there is 3 of them and although jade and milo are not the best trained dogs they do come when called and even more so if food involved.

It might well be a case that she is going to need someone without other dogs that can give her 1 on 1 .

Its something i might have to come to terms with , because it isn't fair to jade or milo for their lives to be changed dramatically either if i can't sort ela out ...and its already going that way.

She's a lovely dog , she has a great temperament and a lovely nature , she's loving and non destructive etc ....in every other way id say she was perfect . But the recall is non existent.

I will see how the next few days goes and also trying to find a trainer to see if they have any ideas or recommendations
But if i have no luck i may have to find her a new owner , which will break my heart



I don't expect everyone to support and agree but honestly anyone that starts telling me i shouldn't have taken her off that beach etc ...i don't want to hear it.

I did what i believe was best for her , ive given her a home , fed her , made sure she has all her vaccinations etc etc , im trying my best so i don't need anyone saying she would have been better off left there.

I will do what i believe to be best for HER and if that means having to let her go to someone who can give her all their attention then that's what i will do.
I would prefer not to and to get help with training her but if that doesn't work i don't know what alternatives there are.

I think you've done the right thing and will do what is best for her either way. You won't struggle to find a good home for her if necessary despite how much it may hurt.

 

[TM59]

May sound stupid, a lot of discussion about her name, change it??

 

[Lenny HB]

I really sympathise with you tam I know you love her and want her as part of your family.
As you know we look after our daughters Springer a lot, she is not that good at coming back if she has found something interesting but we only have to take a lead out of our pocket and she stops dead and waits for us.
Daughters MIL's dog is another one you can't let off a lead, only a little corgi shaped rescue dog, he has terrier in him. He is a nightmare. At our house once got out the door straight across the fields took over an hour to get him back, let him loose in the country he's straight down a rabbit hole. One time swan across the river and its wide near us had to get SIL out and he had to go swimming to get him back. Another time in the country he got lost we got called out to help in the end daughters Springer found him (unbelievable tracking ability) he had gone across a very busy road into some woods.

Last week we took him for a walk with Lilly (the springer) she was having great fun leaping about in the seagrass at the side of the river chasing her ball. Felt really sorry for him, he was straining at the lead wanting to join in but no way could we risk it.

Just looking at Ela she looks like she wants to belong to your pack, she looked really calm in the van, something about the new surroundings has spooked her I'm sure she will get over it given time.

 

[The Dotties]

I know absolutely nothing about dog training, but I was wondering if Ela doesn’t understand English, esp. with a Scots accent.
Does the word come have a different meaning in her ‘native‘ language, even to the point of being a word of abuse or obscenity.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I rarely let Kerry off the lead, her recall is not that great.

As others have mentioned, I use a whistle...
Acme Whistle 210.5

Initial reasoning was that my voice is not that strong especially over the distance Kerry can run, but also blowing a whistle betrays no emotion. No anger, no frustration, no panic.

It's a unique command.
Cannot be confused with anything else.
And to Kerry it means an exceptionally tasty treat.
She's not perfect. Sometimes her response is instant, sometimes when she's ready but, so far, she's always heard it, and at the very least, knows where I am.

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