Tam & co the great winter escape

Well after 2 days of enclosed but larger space , im still getting nowhere with ela's recall. If anything its actually worse , sge simply will not come. In fact she will do anything other than come , she will try to get further away , will try to get behind furniture etc to hide and behaves like i was in the habit of hitting her , cowering, backing away etc ...which to be honest bloody hurts as ive done nothing but spoil that dog since i got her. If i take her in to the back garden or the house and she isnt on a lead its almost impossible to get her back on a lead or to get her to come out the house etc. The only way is if i just go out and she will eventually follow ...which of course meanss mum has to then get up and follow closing all the doors. Doesn't matter how much i try to coax her with treats etc she won't come. And when you try to get hold of her she panics and bolts ..so we've already had a broken ornament and an oil burner knocked over and wax sent splashing everywhere ☹️ I know its early days and she might be strange with the house and the caravan etc but already its causing stress and mum's not what id call enthusiastic. Im at a loss

Im currently trying to find a local trainer/ behaviourist to speak with them and see if they have any ideas. Its difficult when there is 3 of them and although jade and milo are not the best trained dogs they do come when called and even more so if food involved.

It might well be a case that she is going to need someone without other dogs that can give her 1 on 1 .

Its something i might have to come to terms with , because it isn't fair to jade or milo for their lives to be changed dramatically either if i can't sort ela out ...and its already going that way.

She's a lovely dog , she has a great temperament and a lovely nature , she's loving and non destructive etc ....in every other way id say she was perfect . But the recall is non existent.

I will see how the next few days goes and also trying to find a trainer to see if they have any ideas or recommendations
But if i have no luck i may have to find her a new owner , which will break my heart



I don't expect everyone to support and agree but honestly anyone that starts telling me i shouldn't have taken her off that beach etc ...i don't want to hear it.

I did what i believe was best for her , ive given her a home , fed her , made sure she has all her vaccinations etc etc , im trying my best so i don't need anyone saying she would have been better off left there.

I will do what i believe to be best for HER and if that means having to let her go to someone who can give her all their attention then that's what i will do.
I would prefer not to and to get help with training her but if that doesn't work i don't know what alternatives there are.
 
Tam, you’ve done a brilliant job with Ela so don’t despair…. I think a behavioural expert is a good idea. They can be much more objective than we owners can.. And remember, this is another major change for Ela and she will need time to adapt. Good luck..x

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We have never met Tam but i have no doubt in my mind that you will do what is right even if it is with a very heavy heart.
it is right that you also consider Jade and Milo's needs as well as Ela.

I hope it works for you and all.
 
Have a look at hand-feeding as a training aid. I discovered it recently but think it is too late to help my cock-head spaniel.

Basically you don’t put a bowl of food down - the dog has to ‘earn’ every biscuit of the measured amount.

Don’t know if it will work in your situation but may be worth a try?
 
Tam, she's gone from a 'beach' she knew, people she was likely familiar with (albeit at a distance), other dogs etc which were her 'pack' and been taken in by this kindly Scottish giant with 2 other dogs, then she was taken from country to country, lots of scenery changes so no chance to get used to them, gone on a ferry crossing to yet another country, met more new people and been taken in to a house, something she may well never have experienced before, or if she has it may not have been a good experience for her. You've only been home a couple or so days which is way too soon to expect her to settle and 'behave' it must be total overload for her and she's just trying to deal with it. If you were in the same situation you'd be behaving similarly (in a human way) I'm sure.

Don't beat yourself up but don't expect it to be easy either, she will need work and patience. Ornaments etc can be moved out of her way to avoid any issues and if you Mum doesn't want to do that then you need to restrict where she can go - in fact that might help anyway to reduce the 'overload' she's experiencing.

Don't get annoyed with her or let your 'frustration' show as she'll pick up that for sure and it will make her even less willing to want to come to you. Our Minky is still a b*gger when it comes to recall, most of the time we only get her back because we give the dogs a little treat and she doesn't want to miss out. She's turned out to be a bit of a barker so we're currently working hard to reduce that, there is some progress but it is very, very slow, but I'm sure we'll get there and you will get there with Ela too ... just chill and take it steady ... once she's realised that you are staying put at your Mum's for while she'll start to regard it as home and all of a sudden you'll likely see her treating it as if she'd always been there.
 
Val 3 dogs said:
I'm sorry to read this post Tam but do understand where you are coming from.
I will endeavour to pm you.
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Four of us said:
Tam, you’ve done a brilliant job with Ela so don’t despair…. I think a behavioural expert is a good idea. They can be much more objective than we owners can.. And remember, this is another major change for Ela and she will need time to adapt. Good luck..x
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Ive found 3 local ones , ive left a message for one and still trying to find how to contact another that specialises in rescue dogs. Ill see what they say and maybe even one session would break some ground. Im aware of course that its more difficult because i have 3 of them .

I know she will need time to adapt and i had hoped that having the garden etc to roam in would help but even with a long lead attached and giving it a light tug and saying come she will just zig zag and pull etc ...she won't come i have to reel her in like a fish .

But the way shes acting , flinching , scarpering away from me etc is crazy.
 
Northernraider said:
I know she will need time to adapt and i had hoped that having the garden etc to roam in would help but even with a long lead attached and giving it a light tug and saying come she will just zig zag and pull etc ...she won't come i have to reel her in like a fish .
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You need to give a good tug, not just a light one, do this just after you've said in a commanding voice 'come' (or whatever word you use) if she hasn't done as she's told, don't talk quietly, she needs to know that you mean business so a good tug/jerk (not to hurt her but get the message across) is what is needed. Give it a few seconds in between each command and tug and repeat it until she gets the message and she will, but don't 'reel her in' as all that is doing is frightening her and teaching her to pull back from you. She needs to do it herself which will take patience ... sometimes it may take a good while to get her to come but it's the only way to do it IMV.

Also don't have the other dogs out whilst you are doing this as they will be a distraction especially if they are able to potter around as she will be looking at their action for guidance, in fact the more training etc you do with her on her own the better so that you can create a deep bond which she doesn't appear to have done yet.
 
Yep the other 2 are inside when im doing this.

But

All the dog training videos on youtube say not to keep repeating her name or a command and let her ignore you. They say to give a tug and if she doesn't come to pull her towards you and then praise when she gets there. Only it don't work with ela.

They say if you say come or their name and they dont respond and you dont enforce the comand that you are teaching the dog that its ok to ignore you .

Thats the problem ..

She isn't deaf , she knows im calling her and she's ignoring the comand

And of course theres also the issue when i walk them , jade and milo can get off because they come back , she doesn't so she needs to be on the rope. But she will bound and bounce trying to chase them which she can't . I no longer let her run with the rope atrached because its a hit or a miss whether she will come back and if she decided to run and chase something i couldn't catch her.

Im hoping one of these doggy trainers can see us in person and they will have practical tips then after seeing how she is .

As really its difficult to describe how she's reacting. It would be easier to see
 
I’m not surprised you are having behavioural problems , I’ve been trying to train my dragon for 15 years now & it’s hard work , she doesn’t do a thing I say , just need to love them for what they are ,
glad the wife doesn’t have a fun membership 😰

you will get there , chill , the more you stress the more stressed Ella will get
don’t let this one beat ya , if I ever manage to train mine I’ll tell you how I did it 😉
BUT I’m sure she says the same of me

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I know it hurts, you may have to let her go to another home with no other dogs. It's not fair on the other dogs Tam. You are amazing for taking her in and looking after her all of this time. Like you say, you have to do what's best for her. I feel your pain. And anyone who says you shouldn't have taken her from that beach. Tell them to Fiddlesticks off.
 
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Northernraider said:
All the dog training videos on youtube say not to keep repeating her name or a command and let her ignore you. They say to give a tug and if she doesn't come to pull her towards you and then praise when she gets there. Only it don't work with ela.
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The thing is that Ela hasn't had a normal start in life so is very wary and personally I wouldn't expect their methods to work with her, pulling her is making her more concerned rather than respecting you more.
Northernraider said:
They say if you say come or their name and they dont respond and you dont enforce the comand that you are teaching the dog that its ok to ignore you
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That's why I said to keep doing the command and the tug, she will do it eventually but I'm not talking a few minutes, it will take time so if you haven't got time at that particular point then only take her into the garden on a short lead so you have full control. I'd also keep it short and gradually increase the length when she starts to respond correctly, allowing her more rope, literally, to show her the better she is the more freedom she has.

This is how we've been training Minky and now we can let her go a fair distance away (with her long tether attached but not held by us) and she's learnt that the more she behaves/does as she's told the more time she gets to spend being free, it has taken a while but it's worth it to see her enjoying pottering and snuffling and not just wanting to run off at the first taste of freedom.
 
Living in a country where some dogs are treated really bad, dumped in bins starved and chained up all their lives, what you did with Ela was wonderful, life for her was not going to get better, the best thing that happens to street dogs in our area is being captured, they get fed and treated for all the diseases they have picked up, sometimes been hit by vehicles and had a broken leg for weeks and unable to feed themselves and turning into skin and bone, so don't blame yourself thinking you shouldn't have rescued her. 🙂
As you know we pet / house sit and get a variety of dog's, 😉 sometimes I think why am I doing this, especially when he is a big mastiff and the owner says 😯 Oh that's good he doesn't normally like men 😁.
But other times the dogs give as much love and happiness as they do the owners and seem quite sad when we leave, and go mad the next time we see them. 😁
A tough decision Tam, but it will be the right one. 🙂 Bob.
 
I spoke to a chap with a husky, he had it on a long trainer lead, he said it had to stay on that lead or it just runs off and he said there’re all like it.
 
Scotch mist said:
I’m not surprised you are having behavioural problems , I’ve been trying to train my dragon for 15 years now & it’s hard work , she doesn’t do a thing I say , just need to love them for what they are ,
glad the wife doesn’t have a fun membership 😰

you will get there , chill , the more you stress the more stressed Ella will get
don’t let this one beat ya , if I ever manage to train mine I’ll tell you how I did it 😉
BUT I’m sure she says the same of me
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Our boy Labradoodle Stanley was never let off lead for the 14 years we had him on walks as he chased cars, rabbits and once took a sheep down and dragged her along the field. (she was fine, in my field at the time and for once and for only that once, he obeyed my command to let go!!!) But I always kept him on a long lead, he was too precious to me plus he always had the free run on our fields when we got home. We are surrounded by fields with livestock so I had no choice but to keep him on a lead. He had a fantastic life with us :h: a woman once asked me why I don't let him off lead and I said I don't want to spend the rest of the day, sorry the rest of my life looking for him.

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Minxy said:
The thing is that Ela hasn't had a normal start in life so is very wary and personally I wouldn't expect their methods to work with her, pulling her is making her more concerned rather than respecting you more.

That's why I said to keep doing the command and the tug, she will do it eventually but I'm not talking a few minutes, it will take time so if you haven't got time at that particular point then only take her into the garden on a short lead so you have full control. I'd also keep it short and gradually increase the length when she starts to respond correctly, allowing her more rope, literally, to show her the better she is the more freedom she has.

This is how we've been training Minky and now we can let her go a fair distance away (with her long tether attached but not held by us) and she's learnt that the more she behaves/does as she's told the more time she gets to spend being free, it has taken a while but it's worth it to see her enjoying pottering and snuffling and not just wanting to run off at the first taste of freedom.
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She hasn't done it in 4 months 🤷‍♂️ if i don't reel her in she will not come , she will zig zag back and forth and try to pull away. Whenever she hears the word come she wants to get as far away as possible
 
Ginam said:
Our boy Labradoodle Stanley was never let off lead for the 14 years we had him on walks as he chased cars, rabbits and once took a sheep down and dragged her along the field. (she was fine, in my field at the time and for once and for only that once, he obeyed my command to let go!!!) But I always kept him on a long lead, he was too precious to me plus he always had the free run on our fields when we got home. We are surrounded by fields with livestock so I had no choice but to keep him on a lead. He had a fantastic life with us :h: a woman once asked me why I don't let him off lead and I said I don't want to spend the rest of the day, sorry the rest of my life looking for him.
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Thats the thing most of the time she's quite happy being on the lead, but she does at times pull and bounce because she wants to run and chase the other 2 .

She doesn't try to run away as such ...she will always follow, and if i stop and change direction she will stop turn around and follow.
Its just getting a hold of her thats a nightmare.
When i say come to put lead on in the van she will come practically crawling and lower her head to the ground ...but she will come. ...its a small space so not much freedom.

But in my mums house she will not come to get the lead on but instead try to hide behind chairs etc .. and its not so easy to go and take her by the collar as she will dart around trying to avoid me. In the garden its even worse.

When she has no rope or lead attached and she's free she will not come near. Attach a lead or a rope to her harness and while she wont come while called she is easier to catch.

I just want her to come enthusiastically when called and let me attach a lead.

That would be a start.

But why she still acts like im going to hurt her after 4 months being with me just baffles me.
 
Ginam said:
Our boy Labradoodle Stanley was never let off lead for the 14 years we had him on walks as he chased cars, rabbits and once took a sheep down and dragged her along the field. (she was fine, in my field at the time and for once and for only that once, he obeyed my command to let go!!!) But I always kept him on a long lead, he was too precious to me plus he always had the free run on our fields when we got home. We are surrounded by fields with livestock so I had no choice but to keep him on a lead. He had a fantastic life with us :h: a woman once asked me why I don't let him off lead and I said I don't want to spend the rest of the day, sorry the rest of my life looking for him.
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Not sure your dog training methods would work with my wife lol 🥺
 
Northernraider said:
Thats the thing most of the time she's quite happy being on the lead, but she does at times pull and bounce because she wants to run and chase the other 2 .

She doesn't try to run away as such ...she will always follow, and if i stop and change direction she will stop turn around and follow.
Its just getting a hold of her thats a nightmare.
When i say come to put lead on in the van she will come practically crawling and lower her head to the ground ...but she will come. ...its a small space so not much freedom.

But in my mums house she will not come to get the lead on but instead try to hide behind chairs etc .. and its not so easy to go and take her by the collar as she will dart around trying to avoid me. In the garden its even worse.

When she has no rope or lead attached and she's free she will not come near. Attach a lead or a rope to her harness and while she wont come while called she is easier to catch.

I just want her to come enthusiastically when called and let me attach a lead.

That would be a start.

But why she still acts like im going to hurt her after 4 months being with me just baffles me.
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I only had my boy Stanley at the time, so it was easy for me to keep him on a lead. So much harder for you as she wants to run with your other 2. When I inherited little Jack after my mum died I kept him on a lead too, for Stanley's sake and sanity. It is weird Ela is reacting the way she is, makes me wonder if she was ill treated in a house by someone before she ended up on the streets. I feel for you. You have loved and cared for her and now she is acting so strangely. I hope you can get professional help for her.
 
From what you've said Tam it's the new environment that is making her very uneasy, not you. I'd be tempted to leave a lead on her all the time, even indoors, so that you can always get control of her and prevent her from running around and getting herself into a frenzy. What she may have been okay with before could now be concerning for her in a new unfamiliar place.

Getting down onto the ground might help too so you are at her eye level rather than above her which some dogs can find very worrying. I'm sure you have the ability to turn her round, just take it slowly and don't be disappointed if she goes backwards and forwards for a while, she'll get there soon enough and then you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

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Northernraider said:
She hasn't done it in 4 months 🤷‍♂️ if i don't reel her in she will not come , she will zig zag back and forth and try to pull away. Whenever she hears the word come she wants to get as far away as possible
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Maybe try another word than come. That word seems to spook her now for some reason. I would also try lying on the floor next to her so you are on the same level for a few minutes at a time.
 
As I have said previously I am not a dog, or cat lover and I therefore know absolutely NOTHING about them so, do you have to use the word/command 'come' when you want her to come to you, could she be frightened of the word :unsure:
Happy to be called a fool because as I have said :rofl:
PS beautiful dog.
 
Ginam said:
four dog trainers told me my Stanley was a waste of time because of his breed !! I loved that dog. I had to negotiate with him all the time, no chance he ever obeyed orders !!
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seems my humour has gone to the dogs 🤕

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