Starlink ordered… I feel it’s the only sensible option now..

[Two on Tour]

Starlink mini looks very interesting - power from USB-C or "12-48V" and average power consumption of "25-40W"

https://api.starlink.com/public-files/specification_sheet_mini.pdf

I take it that you missed post #2,061 on this thread yesterday then.

 

[fred_jb]

Though I find it technically interesting, I am not convinced that a flat mount and 12V supply is the way to go.

On our current trip in France the majority of campsite pitches we have used have been so shaded that I have not been able to use my Starvmount roof mount which connects via a short cable to my POE 12V to 48V adapter and router.

Instead, I have had to swap connections to use my 150 ft cable and position the dishy on my tripod mount, in some cases well away from the van. The need to use a long cable to get a reasonable sight of the sky would preclude a 12V supply and needs the 48V POE feed to overcome cable losses.

Even with the long cable I have often still had an obstructed view of the sky, which seems to have a relatively small effect on download speeds but does make the already long setup process longer, and I think also causes more dropouts when streaming.

Despite the challenges I have so far had full success in watching the Euros on our smart TV via iPlayer and ITVx!

 

[MisterB]

Though I find it technically interesting, I am not convinced that a flat mount and 12V supply is the way to go.

On our current trip in France the majority of campsite pitches we have used have been so shaded that I have not been able to use my Starvmount roof mount which connects via a short cable to my POE 12V to 48V adapter and router.

Instead, I have had to swap connections to use my 150 ft cable and position the dishy on my tripod mount, in some cases well away from the van. The need to use a long cable to get a reasonable sight of the sky would preclude a 12V supply and needs the 48V POE feed to overcome cable losses.

Even with the long cable I have often still had an obstructed view of the sky, which seems to have a relatively small effect on download speeds but does make the already long setup process longer, and I think also causes more dropouts when streaming.

Despite the challenges I have so far had full success in watching the Euros on our smart TV via iPlayer and ITVx!

View attachment 913049

I don't disagree, having the opportunity to place the dish in different positions does have its advantages. A fully self contained package might be a perfect solution...

 

[Gromett]

 

[fred_jb]

I don't disagree, having the opportunity to place the dish in different positions does have its advantages. A fully self contained package might be a perfect solution...

Yes, I could envisage a flat packaged dish with alternative 12V and 48V POE power inputs which could be taken off the roof and deployed on a stand away from the vehicle if needed.

Alternatively, if Starlink allowed two dishes on one contract you could use a fixed one on the roof of the vehicle and swap to a different dish if you had to place it away from the vehicle. So far the only sign of allowing this is with the new mini, but that can only be used as an adjunct to a fixed residential contract.

However, I find carrying a standard dish which covers both cases no problem. The dish in its stowed position straps vertically to the inside of my gas cabinet where it is not in the way and takes up very little space. It can be mounted on the roof via the skylight or outside with my tripod which, unlike the normal humongous stand, can be folded down for storage.

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[Guigsy]

Though I find it technically interesting, I am not convinced that a flat mount and 12V supply is the way to go.

On our current trip in France the majority of campsite pitches we have used have been so shaded that I have not been able to use my Starvmount roof mount which connects via a short cable to my POE 12V to 48V adapter and router.

Instead, I have had to swap connections to use my 150 ft cable and position the dishy on my tripod mount, in some cases well away from the van. The need to use a long cable to get a reasonable sight of the sky would preclude a 12V supply and needs the 48V POE feed to overcome cable losses.

Even with the long cable I have often still had an obstructed view of the sky, which seems to have a relatively small effect on download speeds but does make the already long setup process longer, and I think also causes more dropouts when streaming.

Despite the challenges I have so far had full success in watching the Euros on our smart TV via iPlayer and ITVx!

View attachment 913049

What do you do if you're at a site where there's "no camping behaviour"? Or there are potential issues with site security?

 

[Carpmart]

Wrong post!

 

[Carpmart]

Though I find it technically interesting, I am not convinced that a flat mount and 12V supply is the way to go.

On our current trip in France the majority of campsite pitches we have used have been so shaded that I have not been able to use my Starvmount roof mount which connects via a short cable to my POE 12V to 48V adapter and router.

Instead, I have had to swap connections to use my 150 ft cable and position the dishy on my tripod mount, in some cases well away from the van. The need to use a long cable to get a reasonable sight of the sky would preclude a 12V supply and needs the 48V POE feed to overcome cable losses.

Even with the long cable I have often still had an obstructed view of the sky, which seems to have a relatively small effect on download speeds but does make the already long setup process longer, and I think also causes more dropouts when streaming.

Despite the challenges I have so far had full success in watching the Euros on our smart TV via iPlayer and ITVx!

View attachment 913049

An interesting problem…. We have a very different approach to where we park. We never hook up to mains these days, but in order for this statement to be true, I need to avoid trees so as to facilitate the best solar opportunity.

This equates (usually) to good conditions for Starlink. As a consequence, in 16 months of Starlink usage (including nine months around Europe) I’ve never needed to move it from its position on the roof.

WRT to performance. I’ve had only a handful of days where topography and partial obstruction have caused any outages of note.

 

[Guigsy]

An interesting problem…. We have a very different approach to where we park. We never hook up to mains these days, but in order for this statement to be true, I need to avoid trees so as to facilitate the best solar opportunity.

This equates (usually) to good conditions for Starlink. As a consequence, in 16 months of Starlink usage (including nine months around Europe) I’ve never needed to move it from its position on the roof.

WRT to performance. I’ve had only a handful of days where topography and partial obstruction have caused any outages of note.

Agreed. The existing Dishys are power hungry. So you either have to get away from shade (so roof is fine) or you use hook up (so power doesn't matter). The mini Dishy will be much more flexible. Ideally I'd have a roof mount with the option to trail a cable across the ground, but I suspect that'll add too much complexity.

 

[MisterB]

When I get home in a couple of weeks, i will be looking to add a router inside the Starlink enclosure. That will mean one 12v power cable into the enclosure, no ethernet cable (as it will be inside the enclosure). It doesn't resolve the discussion between permanently mounted or otherwise but it might allow greater flexibility. Permanently mounted does allow starlink in motion which is a bonus for some people, which might be the critical factor that swings it one way or another although a quickly deployed 'flat' starlink with just a power lead to connect up might be more advantageous to others.
Whichever way users decide to go I always think there is going to be a compromise, whether that be in the choice of where to pitch, the ease of use/deployment, ability to use while mobile, security from theft etc. but for me the choice will always be to reduce the power consumption for off grid use and reduce the faff of setting up, particularly for short time use i.e. if stopping for a break whilst travelling.

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[fred_jb]

What do you do if you're at a site where there's "no camping behaviour"? Or there are potential issues with site security?

We tend to avoid places like that so the problem has not arisen. There are lots of lovely locations away from the coast in France and Spain where you can stay in small local campsites or aires with full facilities for 10-20 Euros and the site we are on at the moment near Agay is right on the Med coast and is about 38 Euros but has a shop and restaurant and of course all the other facilities like EHU and water disposal points. We have nothing against wild camping and will do it in right situations, but generally prefer campsites.

If we have a situation where we cannot deploy Starlink for whatever reason, we have a backup as our router has an input for a tethered USB Internet source. I use my spare phone, which is otherwise mainly used for satnav and Android Auto duties, for this and it has 30Gb data roaming allowance via my £7 per month iD contract. I mount it on a window near the cupboard housing the router, using a stick on Quadlock mount. That worked really well on the one occasion we had to use it.

Failing that, well it is not the end of the world to have no Internet for a night!

 

[fred_jb]

Agreed. The existing Dishys are power hungry. So you either have to get away from shade (so roof is fine) or you use hook up (so power doesn't matter). The mini Dishy will be much more flexible. Ideally I'd have a roof mount with the option to trail a cable across the ground, but I suspect that'll add too much complexity.

I have not found having both options adding too much complexity. Basically the cable from the roof mount goes internally to the POE box and router via an RJ45 plug and socket arrangement. When I want to use the ground mount I unplug the roof mount cable and plug in the ground mount cable instead. The socket for this is on a bracket accessed via the toilet cassette hatch. This door can still be closed and locked over the cable without squashing it too much, so security and weather proofing of the plug and socket is not an issue.

 

[MisterB]

Though I find it technically interesting, I am not convinced that a flat mount and 12V supply is the way to go.

On our current trip in France the majority of campsite pitches we have used have been so shaded that I have not been able to use my Starvmount roof mount which connects via a short cable to my POE 12V to 48V adapter and router.

Instead, I have had to swap connections to use my 150 ft cable and position the dishy on my tripod mount, in some cases well away from the van. The need to use a long cable to get a reasonable sight of the sky would preclude a 12V supply and needs the 48V POE feed to overcome cable losses.

Even with the long cable I have often still had an obstructed view of the sky, which seems to have a relatively small effect on download speeds but does make the already long setup process longer, and I think also causes more dropouts when streaming.

Despite the challenges I have so far had full success in watching the Euros on our smart TV via iPlayer and ITVx!

View attachment 913049

If you were into making modifications to your dishy, I reckon you could convert to 12v and add a router into the enclosure by splitting the dishy then resealing, so you only need one 12v feed and not the ethernet connection, which might allow for the flexibility in positioning your dish without compromising its ability to use the motors to determine it's best direction to point, you have to confirm the motor is 12v which I'm sure it is.
No guarantees of course, that this would work but it's an interesting discussion, there may be potential to add a router to the outside of the enclosure aswell. FYI, the Starlink router itself is a small circuit board inside the router case, which also includes the step down inverter from 240v to 48/12v. It's that router board that I think might fit inside the case, which is what the mini dish might actually be doing.

 

[fred_jb]

If you were into making modifications to your dishy, I reckon you could convert to 12v and add a router into the enclosure by splitting the dishy then resealing, so you only need one 12v feed and not the ethernet connection, which might allow for the flexibility in positioning your dish without compromising its ability to use the motors to determine it's best direction to point, you have to confirm the motor is 12v which I'm sure it is.
No guarantees of course, that this would work but it's an interesting discussion...

I would probably only modify the dish if and when you are allowed to have two dishes on one contract. I could then get a spare and mess about with that. I put an RJ45 plug on a Starlink ethernet adapter and plug the standard unmodified cable in via that when using the ground mount. This means that for warranty purposes I can easily revert to a completely stock arrangement of Starlink router, cable and dish.

 

[fred_jb]

BTW, I can highly recommend the router I use. I originally bought it mainly because it is very small and can be powered via a USB-C outlet, and because Amazon had discounted it to £67 at the time. This is the Beryl AX GL-MT3000. Once I started using it I found out that it is highly specced with lots of useful features. It has WiFi 6 on 2.4 and 5 Ghz, and has incredible range considering the small aerial arms. I use the ability to accept a USB tethered Internet source to make use of mobile data on my phone as a backup to Starlink.

It also allows you to configure it to use your existing VPN provider and virtual location, in my case SurfShark and the UK. I use the faster Wireguard option for this. You can then also specify which if any attached devices, and which of their interfaces, get routed via the VPN. As our other devices all have the SurfShark app I have limited this to our smart TV as it is not possible to install SurfShark directly on that. The TV mounts on the wall right next to the cupboard with the router so I use a wired connection to the LAN socket on the router, with Starlink plugged into the WAN socket This works like a dream so running iPlayer and ITVX on the TV to watch the Euros has worked seamlessly!

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[MisterB]

BTW, I can highly recommend the router I use. I originally bought it mainly because it is very small and can be powered via a USB-C outlet, and because Amazon had discounted it to £67 at the time. This is the Beryl AX GL-MT3000.

I've got the MT 1300 which I set up on my 12v starlink. The small footprint is what's lead me to consider fitting it inside the dishy enclosure.

 

[fred_jb]

I've got the MT 1300 which I set up on my 12v starlink. The small footprint is what's lead me to consider fitting it inside the dishy enclosure.

If the dish is flat mounted on the roof won't the metal roof tend to block the wifi signal? Although given my experience these routers do have powerful WiFi transmitters. When I was setting mine up in the van parked at the front of the house my wife's phone was still connecting in the back garden!

 

[MisterB]

If the dish is flat mounted on the roof won't the metal roof tend to block the wifi signal? Although given my experience these routers do have powerful WiFi transmitters. When I was setting mine up in the van parked at the front of the house my wife's phone was still connecting in the back garden!

No idea, but there is a way to find out lol ... I've been using my starlink router outside of the motorhome, plugged into an external 240v socket and I haven't an issue, which is why I'm tempted just to strip out the router circuit board on one of my routers.

I reckon a few hours testing and making changes and tweaks would sort it out though. As with most things it needs a guinea pig....

 

[fred_jb]

Interesting discovery regarding Starlink and phone location. Mine has kept showing Spanish ads in YouTube and putting a Spanish flag on my MHFun posts even though I am in France and quite near the Italian border, so nowhere near Spain. I have come to the conclusion that this is due to Starlink, as if I reboot the phone with WiFi turned off it uses the country provided by my mobile data which comes up as UK. As soon as I connect again via Starlink it goes back to Spain. I wonder if this is due to my Starlink connection using a downlink earth station in Spain rather than France?

 

[Gromett]

I wonder if this is due to my Starlink connection using a downlink earth station in Spain rather than France?

That will be the reason why. The satellites are around 350 miles up. so they have a fair old reach.

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[MisterB]

I am shown as being in Germany but am in Italy, near the Swiss border ...at Lake Orta ..

 

[Gromett]

fred_jb MisterB

If you look here

Starlink satellite tracker

Live view of SpaceX starlink satellite constellation and coverage.

satellitemap.space

You can see all the ground stations. Some I think are not active.

Look at the direction your dish is pointing. From this you can see where the satellites you connect to will mainly be.
You can then see which possible ground stations they may use.

I suspect dishy will try and connect to the satellite furthest away and hold onto it for as long as possible as it passes overhead.
Therefore the ground link it uses is probably further away than you might expect initially.

Also it may be possible for that to change when it swaps satellites. For instance if the satellite you are connected to now is mainly travelling west to east but has a northerly trajectory it may have connected to a southern ground stations.
But visa versa if it has a southerly trajectory it may have connected to a more northern ground station. This may change on the next connection?

Just hypothesising here.

 

[MisterB]

It doesn't bother me to be honest, so long as I'm getting a decent enough signal

 

[matbic]

If you want to build your own Wi-Fi access point and router - Microtik have several boards you could use like this one: https://mikrotik.com/product/l11ug_5haxd#fndtn-specifications

 

[Guigsy]

If you want to build your own Wi-Fi access point and router - Microtik have several boards you could use like this one: https://mikrotik.com/product/l11ug_5haxd#fndtn-specifications

I think my Teltonika can load balance between something plugged into a WAN ethernet port, and the onboard 4G/5G. Then broadcast the WiFi from there. So I could plug the Mini into my router if WiFi from the Mini is an issue.

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[Tombola]

Starlink Mini Dish on Sale for $200, But Only in Latin America

This suggests SpaceX might offer a similarly low price for consumers in the US, where the Mini dish is currently only available on an invite-only basis for $599.

uk.pcmag.com

 

[Carpmart]

Just goes back to some early discussion on this thread; Elon is ‘just’ after market penetration; in particular net new subscribers as this is what drives Starlinks longer term value. Fair play to him!

 

[Gromett]

Just goes back to some early discussion on this thread; Elon is ‘just’ after market penetration; in particular net new subscribers as this is what drives Starlinks longer term value. Fair play to him!

I think it is even simpler than that.
Each area can support x number of downlinks. The cells are hexagonal.
If he has reached a degree of saturation the price will not fall.
If there is loads of spare capacity he will decrease prices to gain new clients.

He is an efficiency man. So he would hate spending millions on ground stations and satellite for them to be under utilised.

 

[RogerIvy]

Bush camp in NT Australia (Arnhem Land).
StarLink managing despite the trees.
We’re camped at a very remote community of Aboriginals - special “once in a lifetime” invitation.

 

[stewartwebr]

System has been on boot for 48 hours, tried all the usual resets etc. Thought it would be time to put my hand in my pocket and buy a new dish given I hacked the back off the current one. Starlink asked me a few questions which I suspected would lead to them sending out a new router and cable, neither of which I use. I cut them at the chase and advised I tested the dishy with my friends cable and router. They got back saying a new kit is on the way but it is a Gen3 as they no longer supply Gen2
Bit the bullet and ordered the StarMount 12Volt conversion and quick release. The same one I fitted to my friends van which has been excellent. It should arrive on Monday from California. At least there shall be no dish cutting this time around. I will need to get the old mount off the roof of the van.

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