Solar Panel Blown off Roof

[scotjimland]

It isn't nit picking @thebriars pointed it out originally as a 'funny' .
I'd already seen it but hadn't bothered commenting.
I'm merely pointing out that as an Engineer it is not a way that any sensible person would write it.Yes I understood that they wanted 3mm but you do not write +/-in front of it unless there is another measurement.Otherwise it reads as though it has an allowance of 3 mm either side of the measurement that isn't shown. I'm sorry if you consider it is nit picking but it isn't meant like that just informative for people that don't understand how it should be correctly written & hope it doesn't stop you from posting.

the plus minus ± can also mean "more or less"...

as there were no other measurement given, ± 3 mm. means 3 mm "more or less"

I certainly didn't think it was confusing when I fitted my dish.

The instructions were provided by Alden for fixing solar panels and sat dishes using Sika 252 , which came with the

they can be downloaded in a pdf from Vanbitz

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plus or minus

 

[gus-lopez]

the plus minus ± can also mean "more or less"...

as there were no other measurement given, ± 3 mm. means 3 mm "more or less"

Yes I appreciate & agree that is what I assumed they meant but the +/- jumped straight out me as could be confusing to people with no idea & who could easily squash the joint to nothing
As an Engineer even I would ask for clarification if I found it on a drawing & wouldn't personally use it when dealing with the general public preferring the use of 'more or less'.
Then again I do tend to over think anything that might confuse anyone preferring to over elaborate rather than risk a disaster.

 

[thebriars]

I thought this forum was called Motorhome Fun?

 

[scotjimland]

Can someone explain to me how you apply a layer of glue -3mm thick?

Point I asked was how do you put a layer of MINUS 3cm of Sikaflex? The instructions posted by Scotjimland said:

Glue generously the base of the unit with SikaFlex 252 then press slightly on the unit. Layer of glue: ± 3 mm.

I thought this forum was called Motorhome Fun?

it most certainly is , but finding fault is not humour

I'm well aware what the ± sign means,

clearly not..

 

[Two on Tour]

I thought this forum was called Motorhome Fun?

Rather depends on your definition of Fun and in some cases whether you have a thick skin or not and can you give as good as you get with the banter, but on the whole away from the normal battle lines Fun is fun and the best motorhome site by far.
I don't do FaceBook but Yvette tells me that if you want some real bitching and darn right nastiness, then try a motorhome forum on FaceBook.

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[Minxy]

Thank goodness I fitted semi-flexible panels to our PVC ... I didn't use Sikaflex either ... I used O'Learys own version which is a LOT cheaper and sold specifically for this type of thing.

 

[Larrynwin]

Thank goodness I fitted semi-flexible panels to our PVC ... I didn't use Sikaflex either ... I used O'Learys own version which is a LOT cheaper and sold specifically for this type of thing.

........ and the instructions are 1 2 3 O’Leary

 

[thebriars]

the plus minus ± can also mean "more or less"...

as there were no other measurement given, ± 3 mm. means 3 mm "more or less"

I certainly didn't think it was confusing when I fitted my dish.

The instructions were provided by Alden for fixing solar panels and sat dishes using Sika 252 , which came with the

they can be downloaded in a pdf from Vanbitz

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plus or minus

I'm afraid with this reference you are looking at the language of the sign, which is often very different in meaning to the precise meaning of the actual symbol ± used in science, maths and engineering. In science it is the error margin, in maths it means either plus or minus of a particular value, and in engineering it gives the tolerance allowed. In the original quotation the actual thickness of adhesive was missed off. Alden's instructions are incorrect. They should have read something like "5mm ± 3mm". i.e. the adhesive should be anywhere between 2 and 8mm thick.

It is particularly common, especially in mathematics, to use a mathematical term very loosely in spoken language. e.g. "The moon is a quarter of the size of the Earth." It doesn't mean exactly a quarter but a rough quarter (Its actually 27.26%). A quarter when written and used in mathematical notation is a precise value.

However, the original point was made just for harmless a bit of fun. Its a pity it couldn't simply be seen in that light.

 

[Louis]

Well my solar is still stuck fast to the roof with sikaflex, trouble is my roof came off somewhere in France

 

[JonP]

Having seen what happens on boats where ss fittings are used on aluminium without protection, no way would I use ss self tappers.
I do use ss nuts and bolts but I coat them with silicon grease before assembly.
An old yatchmans trick is a coating of Evostick.

So you don’t need to tighten them up, they just stick to each other.

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[Gorse Hill]

Now I am really confused, not hard!

I have received an e-mail back from Sikaflex instructing me to use Sika 252 but should also use Sika Primer and Activator as part of the process. I should also ensure that the application is between 4 and 5mm thick. I have 2 panels in the post so not sure which Sikaflex to use now???

This info is exactly the same as I received from Sika (also on the link I posted) to fit my Snipe Satalite, 18 months later still good.
It’s classfication is a structural adhesive with excellent stress capabilities.

 

[Gorse Hill]

If you really want to make sure use 292i, it's a marine grade adhesive, I used it on my sat dish. For my panels I used 291i which is a marine grade sealant adhesive. I must admit I didn't use their activator I just abraded the surfaces then cleaned with meths followed by alcohol.

When I spoke to there technical department they indicated unless you use the specified cleaner/activator they cannot guarantee the products performance as indicated in the specification data, could be a load of horse s**t to buy more products but for £20 is it worth the risk.

 

[Hilewaychile]

I debated long and hard on whether or not to put holes in the roof [other than the hatches] as I had read many comments on SBMCC that Sika or similar has worked for others for some years.

I finally chickened out and the fwd facing ali L-sections which form the framework to support the solar panels were pop-riveted to the roof with fat s/s rivets sitting in a blob of Sika.

The L-section to roof surface was also Sika'd along its full length. Sq 3mm section ali sits in the angle of the L, rivetted and Sika'd. The panel rests on the top edge of the sq section. The panel is Sika'd to the sq section top face and secured to the upright of the L section with s/s self tappers into the ali frame of the s/panel.

As the panels have L-section facing the wind, that prevents lifting. I left the L section down the sides short of full length to ensure the bottom faces of the panels get plenty of fresh air blasting/wafting under them. S/panel performance deteriorates as the surface heats up.

Not a drop has come through any hole.

My pal, in the pic, who fixed panels to his mum's self build Luton, did similar. When he found he need to take the panels off to reposition them for some reason, the Sika ripped a layer of GRP off the roof, rather than give way itself.

We used Sika a lot at my boatyard. There is a grade of Sika - can't remember which - that has a 25 year service life as the bonding/sealant for 'paid decking' - that lovely planked decking you see on pricey vessels.

We bonded marine ply with Sika to the ali lids of the lockers in the workboat, which spent its whole life out on the river Tamar - tidal, salt water - and rain, being jumped on from the dock ... When the top surface of the ply got tatty and we tried to get the panels off the locker lids, the bottom ply remained stuck - the rest of the ply came away. Tough stuff.

Fix-All and/or Stix-All is as good, we have found.

 

[Top Hat]

I had not noticed this thread when I posted my question on solar panel fixing.........glad I have now.

Charlie

 

[Hilewaychile]

What did you use ? Ali angle cut and drilled ?
Did you screw as well.
I'm planning fitting an additional panel over winter and have some of the plastic corner pieces in my basket on eBay.
I think I'll remove them !

Those corner pieces just dont look the biz for vehicle mounting. Fine for static installations but solar panels need mechanical fixing all along the side facing the wind, at very minimum. Sticky stuff will do for the rest, if it is a bonding type. I put a pop-rivet in each corner just for peace of mind - and to make it less unofficially removable by a passing tea-leaf.

Full width ali L section facing the wind. The other three sides don't need full width but I did full width to the rear in case I fitted a gearbox similar to the Ferrari 250SWB GTO Le Mans racer of the 60's - geared for 110mph in reverse! Not really. I had the ali lengths so used it. Definitely leave two sides with 1/2 or 1/3 open, for ventilation.

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[Top Hat]

I first posted this earlier this year ........

Just to add to the confusion, I contacted someone at the Technical Department at Sika, last week, as I am about to fit a second Solar Panel.

I fitted the first one two years ago, using Sika 512, following the recommendations for abrading, cleaning, applying Activator 205, and ensuring at least 3mm of adhesive.

After questioning whether my MH roof was "plastic", saying he had only come across metal ones, (!) he recommended Sika 552, which I had not come across.

His reasoning was that it had a better Tensile Strength - 3 N/mm² compared with 1.8 M/mm² for 512, but also that the surfaces to be bonded did not need to be as stringently cleaned/primed.

Also - Sikaflex®-552 is suitable for structural joints that will be subjected to dynamic stresses.

However, he confused me even more by finishing the conversation saying that despite what he had said, if I had used Sika 512 before, and the panel was still on, then if was probably fine to use it again!!!!

I still have an unopened tube of the 512 left over from the last install, but the expiry date is 12/2016, so I will have to keep that for non-critcal jobs at home, and fork out for some new adhesive .......... but 512 or 552 ??!!

UPDATE - I Bonded the Solar panel as recommended (Sika 552) and so far - so good!!

Same here, I contacted them 4/5 weeks ago and was also recommended to use Sikaflex 552 , after reading what others have been recommended I presumed 552 might be a new product more suitable for the job.

Charlie

 

[stewartwebr]

........ and the instructions are 1 2 3 O’Leary

What has Ryanair got to do with Solar panels

 

[Revolvor]

Interesting - Google obviously monitors what I'm reading, because this just popped up in my news feed.
https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.u...rs/Solar-Panels-taking-flight-Disaster/50730/

 

[Louis]

What has Ryanair got to do with Solar panels

Their aeroplane had a near miss with a low flying solar panel a while back.

 

[thebriars]

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[stewartwebr]

I have just found that this post has been posted here:

Broken Link Removed

I raised the issue as a concern to warn fellow members and now find I am being ridiculed in another forum for potentially using the wrong adhesive. What are the rules with regard to this? I have asked the site that the link be removed. If I were able to I would delete my original post. I will certainly be very guarded with regard to what I post in future

Not a happy bunny

 

[Steve and Denise]

I have just found that this post has been posted here:

Broken Link Removed

I raised the issue as a concern to warn fellow members and now find I am being ridiculed in another forum for potentially using the wrong adhesive. What are the rules with regard to this? I have asked the site that the link be removed. If I were able to I would delete my original post. I will certainly be very guarded with regard to what I post in future

Not a happy bunny

Most on here are appreciative of your warning I for one checked mine.

 

[eddie]

I have just found that this post has been posted here:

Broken Link Removed

I raised the issue as a concern to warn fellow members and now find I am being ridiculed in another forum for potentially using the wrong adhesive. What are the rules with regard to this? I have asked the site that the link be removed. If I were able to I would delete my original post. I will certainly be very guarded with regard to what I post in future

Not a happy bunny

Don't worry he regularly misquotes and makes leading statements that are incorrect and most take his posts with a pinch of salt

Turnover too low to hit the VAT threshold and no longer having premises speaks volumes

Didn't even know what a Battery Master was in a recent thread and said that Van Bitz may be OK for fixing "bumpy floors" but not inverters, which is ironic as in thirty years successful trading I or my staff have never fixed a bumpy floor, but have installed thousands of inverters

 

[peterc10]

I have just found that this post has been posted here:

Broken Link Removed

I raised the issue as a concern to warn fellow members and now find I am being ridiculed in another forum for potentially using the wrong adhesive. What are the rules with regard to this? I have asked the site that the link be removed. If I were able to I would delete my original post. I will certainly be very guarded with regard to what I post in future

Not a happy bunny

If anything can be done the man to ask is @Jim

 

[Two on Tour]

If anything can be done the man to ask is @Jim

Was there not a TV program many moon's ago along those lines.

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[Terry]

Hi
stewartwebr
The only problem with Jim removing the post now is that people have quoted it so the link is on the quote bits ---or entire thead is deleted which would be a shame as it has had the effect/warning that you originally intended

 

[peterc10]

Was there not a TV program many moon's ago along those lines.

Careful now Paul, you know you are skating on thin ice already. You don't want to upset Jim any more or you will be in Lady Godiva land .....................................

 

[Two on Tour]

Careful now Paul, you know you are skating on thin ice already. You don't want to upset Jim any more or you will be in Lady Godiva land .....................................

I'm so misunderstood sometimes.

 

[Jim]

I raised the issue as a concern to warn fellow members and now find I am being ridiculed in another forum for potentially using the wrong adhesive. What are the rules with regard to this?

If he had copied the post I could have had a word and asked him to delete it; but he has just linked to the post, that is the correct thing to do and he has done nothing wrong. I have not read the entire page, but I didn't see anyone being ridiculed.

Everything we post on an open forum is indexed by Google within seconds and will be available for anyone to read long after we are gone.

 

[Two on Tour]

Everything we post on an open forum is indexed by Google within seconds and will be available for anyone to read long after we are gone.

I always said I would leave a legacy and be remember for years after I'm gone.

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