Site electricity usage - recharging electric cars???

[eddie]

we like to go off grid in the summer so why should we pay for electric if we dont want it , it should be charged seperately now so we have a choice

I agree 100% so pick a site that offers your requirements and everyone is happy

Of course it used to be offered seperately till the resale of electricity laws came in, aimed at Wabbit landlords

 

[AndyPK]

we like to go off grid in the summer so why should we pay for electric if we dont want it , it should be charged seperately now so we have a choice

…..so go to sites that offer this ‘facility’……..

 

[nabsim]

Fortunately we have a free market in the UK.

Some campsites will offer separate EV hookup points charged separately.
Some will meter it at the pitch.
Some will ban it entirely.
Others will go off grid.
Others will give you a choice.

The freemarket is a marvellous thing and you will be able to find campsites that suite you.

Here is one thing to remember though. Future EV motorhomes won't be carrying around a leisure battery or gas bottle or any of the related stuff. They will all run directly off the vehicle battery. I personally think solar panels will also become a thing of the past on motorhomes.
A 100AH lead acid leisure battery has <50 AH of usable electric in it. This equates to 600Wh of usable power. An EV can come with between 60,000Wh and 100,000Wh. So running out of leisure battery is not going to be an issue anymore.
Going off grid is going to be much much easier.

If a campsite starts charging excessive amounts for EV charging/hookups. It will be worth charging up your vehicle at the nearest services and arriving on pitch fully charged and declining a hookup.
Lots of variations, options and possibilities going forward. We will be spoiled for choice in the medium to long term. Short term, yes there are going to be issues, some price gouging and some failures. But medium to long term I think it will be great.

If you ever use YouTube do a search for the Chanel electroheads, they released a video a few days ago of the new concept Renault Scenic Vision. If it works I will put a link below. The car will be a hybrid but hydrogen and electric and doesn’t need charging. To my mind one of the sensible options. I may be remembering wrong but I think they said 2024/5 for the hybrid version with full electric 2023. Of course, this is only if this stuff interests you

 

[Gromett]

They break the law unless they are metered

I am not sure that is correct Eddie. I think if it is metered you are not allowed to make a profit off it. If it is included as part of a service then not so much.

I did search the Ofgen regulations yesterday but couldn't find anywhere it specifically says unmetered is illegal..

 

[Janine]

C&CC have always given you the choice of pitches with or without ehu.

In the winter I choose to have ehu, in the summer I don’t.

The least I have paid for a pitch is £5.61 per night, in June last year.

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[nabsim]

There is no profit from selling electric we cannot sell it at a profit, it’s illegal

So it’s included in the pitch fee, which is why we cannot ‘reduce’ the pitch fee if the odd person doesn’t want hook up, as it would determine the cost of the electric

At Cornish Farm Touring Park for example, currently £25 a night for a pitch including electric, knock off a couple of quid and we have set the sale price of the electric at two quid.

If someone doesn’t use £2 worth of electricity we liable, and for what, a tiny percentage of people who don’t want electric

When we can’t fill the site I’ll rethink it, until then? Nah pick another site

I have been seeing this stated about electricity charges for years now but recently saw something that made me think people CAN charge what they want. Look up prices for EHU at the Falls of Shin motorhome stopover to see why I say this.

My thoughts are if folks want hookup it should be metered and they pay for what they use. I manage fine all year round in the U.K. without and just don’t use sites that want more than a tenner when I need to empty/fill. I agree freedom of choice but we don’t really get the choice of sites, it’s a choice of using a site to not usually.

 

[eddie]

I have been seeing this stated about electricity charges for years now but recently saw something that made me think people CAN charge what they want. Look up prices for EHU at the Falls of Shin motorhome stopover to see why I say this.

My thoughts are if folks want hookup it should be metered and they pay for what they use. I manage fine all year round in the U.K. without and just don’t use sites that want more than a tenner when I need to empty/fill. I agree freedom of choice but we don’t really get the choice of sites, it’s a choice of using a site to not usually.

The law is the law, irrespective of whether others either break it or are ignorant of it

We CANNOT resell electricity at a profit

As for choice I know its frustrating, I was at a Three Michelin star restaurant and asked for a Fillet O Fish like McDonald's do and they refused to cook shit or charge me what I 'thought' I should pay unhelpfully telling me to bugger of and eat at McDonald's

I should have been offered a 'choice-

 

[nabsim]

The law is the law, irrespective of whether others either break it or are ignorant of it

We CANNOT resell electricity at a profit

As for choice I know its frustrating, I was at a Three Michelin star restaurant and asked for a Fillet O Fish like McDonald's do and they refused to cook shit or charge me what I 'thought' I should pay unhelpfully telling me to bugger of and eat at McDonald's

I should have been offered a 'choice-

Exactly how I ended my post, we don’t get a choice.

 

[eddie]

Exactly how I ended my post, we don’t get a choice.

You do use a site that offers what you want

 

[Kups]

We stayed on the all electronic aire at Trier, Germany not long ago. Ehu controlled by smart card that you loaded with Euros at reception. No money on card = no electric. Simple but very effective. You even needed the card to access the loo. Excellent way of stopping freeloaders. https://www.pincamp.de/campingplaetze/camping-und-reisemobilpark-treviris

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[Janine]

The law is the law, irrespective of whether others either break it or are ignorant of it

We CANNOT resell electricity at a profit

As for choice I know its frustrating, I was at a Three Michelin star restaurant and asked for a Fillet O Fish like McDonald's do and they refused to cook shit or charge me what I 'thought' I should pay unhelpfully telling me to bugger of and eat at McDonald's

I should have been offered a 'choice-

So are you saying that you cannot offer pitches 100 yards from the nearest ehu bollard and charge half the price?

 

[eddie]

So are you saying that you cannot offer pitches 100 yards from the nearest ehu bollard and charge half the price?

No I am saying if a pitch without electricity is £20 and another one irrespective of the distance is £25 'with' electricity the cost of electricity is £5 and I have to 'prove' that' £5 worth of electricity has been used!

OR

I pander to the majority of the market and provide electricity which is what the majority of my customers want

 

[Janine]

No I am saying if a pitch without electricity is £20 and another one irrespective of the distance is £25 'with' electricity the cost of electricity is £5 and I have to 'prove' that' £5 worth of electricity has been used!

OR

I pander to the majority of the market and provide electricity which is what the majority of my customers want

So how do C&CC get away with it, I wonder

 

[dunnah01]

Maxed out for a day at 13amps would cost about £30 at home so cheaper to stay on site

 

[Gromett]

No I am saying if a pitch without electricity is £20 and another one irrespective of the distance is £25 'with' electricity the cost of electricity is £5 and I have to 'prove' that' £5 worth of electricity has been used!

I am not convinced you do Eddie. Do you have a link to the particular Ofgem rule that covers this? I think if you make £5 of electric available for the customer to use, then it is their choice if they use it or not surely?
That £5 difference also has to have a rather large element of providing the service, (hookup point) maintenance, annual checks, repairs and replacement along with a reasonable profit for investing/installing said hookups.

I think the rules are mainly aimed at metered premises where landlords were over charging tenants above and beyond the metered price.

You obviously know more on this subject than me, and have more experience so forgive my doubting nature please.

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[Janine]

I am not convinced you do Eddie. Do you have a link to the particular Ofgem rule that covers this? I think if you make £5 of electric available for the customer to use, then it is their choice if they use it or not surely?
That £5 difference also has to have a rather large element of providing the service, (hookup point) maintenance, annual checks, repairs and replacement along with a reasonable profit for investing/installing said hookups.

I think the rules are mainly aimed at metered premises where landlords were over charging tenants above and beyond the metered price.

You obviously know more on this subject than me, and have more experience so forgive my doubting nature please.

Does this shed any light on the matter?

Pardon Our Interruption

 

[Gromett]

eddievanbitz if a landlord has 2 flats. He can legally let one with utilities included and the other without them included. He does not have to prove that the difference is a fair price for the utilities.

 

[Gromett]

Does this shed any light on the matter?

Pardon Our Interruption

I saw that one. It doesn't state that it is illegal for tourers to pay a fixed fee for a connection.
It mainly covers statics etc. which is what the legislation is about I think.

All it has to say is this.

Tourers usually pay a nightly fee to use the electrical hook-up on a pitch

Doesn't state whether this is right or wrong.

That said, most secondary sources say the same thing. The ofgem documentation I found doesn't seem to have anything to say on tourers directly.
I prefer primary sources usually directly from Ofgem in this case. But I couldn't even find that

 

[Janine]

Somewhere else I read that campers can pay to rent the ehu bollard per day.

 

[Jamesh]

How much does 12h of 13A EHU cost???

On an average sensible deal?

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[dunnah01]

How much does 12h of 13A EHU cost???

On an average sensible deal?

£15

 

[Gromett]

How much does 12h of 13A EHU cost???

On an average sensible deal?

Not sure what you mean.

A 13A hookup is capable of 240v x 13A = 3120Watts of power. say 3KW.
So 3KWh x 12 hours = 36KWh = 36 units.

If a unit of electric costs you 25p (hehe) then £9 worth of electric could be used maximum.

 

[eddie]

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05.pdf

100% Crystal clear I cannot sell electricity for a penny more than I pay for it :- Top right paragraph

I 'can' include it in the pitch price

I am very happy for anyone that doesn't like my business model to 'Do One' and vote with your feet, but it will be like voting for the Liberal Democrats, won't change anything

 

[dunnah01]

Not sure what you mean.

A 13A hookup is capable of 240v x 13A = 3120Watts of power. say 3KW.
So 3KWh x 12 hours = 36KWh = 36 units.

If a unit of electric costs you 25p (hehe) then £9 worth of electric could be used maximum.

The tariffs for leccy nowadays are nearer to 40p/kWh + 50p/day standing charge so this is about £15. My guaranteed until 2024 15p/kWh went with Bristol Energy's demise and I'm now with SOLR at 35p/kWh. That's why there is so much uproar about fuel poverty etc.

 

[nabsim]

How much does 12h of 13A EHU cost???

On an average sensible deal?

Don’t get me wrong, I think if you use electricity you should pay for what you use and anyone else at a location should not have subsidise you. It’s extremely rare that I ever need to plug in and would have to be a real emergency in which case I would pay whatever applied. I thought this was fine and an excellent place to stop and explore, will go again but I don’t need power.

Posting this to show you can charge more than power costs, there must be something to allow it somewhere.

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[eddie]

Don’t get me wrong, I think if you use electricity you should pay for what you use and anyone else at a location should not have subsidise you. It’s extremely rare that I ever need to plug in and would have to be a real emergency in which case I would pay whatever applied. I thought this was fine and an excellent place to stop and explore, will go again but I don’t need power.

Posting this to show you can charge more than power costs, there must be something to allow it somewhere.

No the law is clear, but not everyone understands the law.

 

[Gromett]

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05.pdf

100% Crystal clear I cannot sell electricity for a penny more than I pay for it :- Top right paragraph

I 'can' include it in the pitch price

I am very happy for anyone that doesn't like my business model to 'Do One' and vote with your feet, but it will be like voting for the Liberal Democrats, won't change anything

I am not trying to change your business model of which I highly approve. That paragraph whilst clear in of itself does not cover the specifics related to a campsite hookup for tourers.

The charge the touring sites charge could easily be argued that it is for the facility to connect not for the electric itself.

 

[eddie]

I am not trying to change your business model of which I highly approve. That paragraph whilst clear in of itself does not cover the specifics related to a campsite hookup for tourers.

The charge the touring sites charge could easily be argued that it is for the facility to connect not for the electric itself.

Wasn't aimed at you mate

 

[Gromett]

The tariffs for leccy nowadays are nearer to 40p/kWh + 50p/day standing charge so this is about £15. My guaranteed until 2024 15p/kWh went with Bristol Energy's demise and I'm now with SOLR at 35p/kWh. That's why there is so much uproar about fuel poverty etc.

Did you not see my (hehe) next to my 25p bit. I was laughing a the idea of 25p for electric. I used 25p because it makes the maths easier. I was showing how to calculate the cost

 

[billym]

I agree 100% so pick a site that offers your requirements and everyone is happy

Fat chance.

Some people who use sites or who ' never ' use sites but still seem to know all about them will always find something to complain about.

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