Site electricity usage - recharging electric cars???

[Jamesh]

You don’t like, don’t go. Simple.

Each site can do what they want, and provide what they think/know their customers want. Most people want EHU. Motorhomes are a small part of the campsites business. Tents want EHU, caravans want EHU, and probably at least 50% of motorhomes want EHU.

The fairest way is a meter per pitch, but that will cost the site, and they much prefer taking money than spending it.

Agreed I go to a site that I like with the level of services that i need no more no less. ...

 

[funflair]

So those of us that don't want it have to pay for those that do.

About right there Lenny, I think that once a site owner has invested in the electric infrastructure they want to maximise the payback so charge for it wether you want/need it or not, they are in business of course

 

[eddie]

So those of us that don't want it have to pay for those that do.

Yes, or go to sites who's customers don't want electric

Lenny I promise you, if the majority of my customers didn't want hook up we would take it out so its market led, not what campsite owners want

 

[eddie]

AND usually a darn site cheaper! Pun intended...

So is land

 

[eddie]

Look it's all academic as there will be no sites soon

Weekly we get asked if we're interested in selling our site or leasing part of it for park homes, Yurts, Shepherd huts etc

Doesn't suit us at the moment but the prices they're offering when the time comes....

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[Wack]

So those of us that don't want it have to pay for those that do.

I stayed on a CL with EHU for £15 a night last week , I'm sure there are farmers that'll let you drive into a field for £5 a night , £15 a night with electricity is a bargain compared to the (crammed in no privacy) £40 a night the CAMC charge

 

[gus-lopez]

Or customers!

I found it was better without many of mine.

That is fine, and it is your choice to use a site like that.


But to then say

Which appeared to me to be saying that EHU's should be banned and not provided to anyone seems a bit of a stretch to me?

Just seemed easier to not supply than to go to the expense of fitting it? Then again if they are going to charge whether you use it or not as it is easier for them then I'd be out anway.
I'd be out anyway as A) i cannot book,B) I usually only want one night,C) I probably won't be there until late at night & D) I want to be gone early having either dumped & filled when I arrived or when i leave. Arrival is preferred as you can then drive straight off.

Because in the UK sites want to charge you for EHU regardless of it you want it or not.

Yes that's the problem.

 

[nicholsong]

About right there Lenny, I think that once a site owner has invested in the electric infrastructure they want to maximise the payback so charge for it wether you want/need it or not, they are in business of course

Maybe, by the same token, those that should pay for the electric they use should bear the cost of both the initial electrical installation to the site and the costs of whatever system is needed to charge them according to their use.

Unfortunately for site owners I could see that resulting in the heavy-users/free loaders being put off, the light-users feeling they are being loaded with disproportionate infrastructure costs, and not enough extra income from electricity to cover the extra installation costs.

Seems like a 'Catch 22', which is only likely to get worse as electricity charges escalate.

 

[eddie]

Maybe, by the same token, those that should pay for the electric they use should bear the cost of both the initial electrical installation to the site and the costs of whatever system is needed to charge them according to their use.

Unfortunately for site owners I could see that resulting in the heavy-users/free loaders being put off, the light-users feeling they are being loaded with disproportionate infrastructure costs, and not enough extra income from electricity to cover the extra installation costs.

Seems like a 'Catch 22', which is only likely to get worse as electricity charges escalate.

There is no profit from selling electric we cannot sell it at a profit, it’s illegal

So it’s included in the pitch fee, which is why we cannot ‘reduce’ the pitch fee if the odd person doesn’t want hook up, as it would determine the cost of the electric

At Cornish Farm Touring Park for example, currently £25 a night for a pitch including electric, knock off a couple of quid and we have set the sale price of the electric at two quid.

If someone doesn’t use £2 worth of electricity we liable, and for what, a tiny percentage of people who don’t want electric

When we can’t fill the site I’ll rethink it, until then? Nah pick another site

 

[dunnah01]

There is no profit from selling electric we cannot sell it at a profit, it’s illegal

So it’s included in the pitch fee, which is why we cannot ‘reduce’ the pitch fee if the odd person doesn’t want hook up, as it would determine the cost of the electric

At Cornish Farm Touring Park for example, currently £25 a night for a pitch including electric, knock off a couple of quid and we have set the sale price of the electric at two quid.

If someone doesn’t use £2 worth of electricity we liable, and for what, a tiny percentage of people who don’t want electric

When we can’t fill the site I’ll rethink it, until then? Nah pick another site

If you can only sell leccy at a loss then you'll only encourage tuggers to charge their cars from the pitch bollards

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[gus-lopez]

There is no profit from selling electric we cannot sell it at a profit, it’s illegal

So it’s included in the pitch fee, which is why we cannot ‘reduce’ the pitch fee if the odd person doesn’t want hook up, as it would determine the cost of the electric

At Cornish Farm Touring Park for example, currently £25 a night for a pitch including electric, knock off a couple of quid and we have set the sale price of the electric at two quid.

If someone doesn’t use £2 worth of electricity we liable, and for what, a tiny percentage of people who don’t want electric

When we can’t fill the site I’ll rethink it, until then? Nah pick another site

So how do the sites that have "with or without" do it legally? Which they do.
it is the cost per unit that you cannot exceed ,you can charge what you want for the recovery of supply & installation costs.

 

[nicholsong]

Maybe, by the same token, those that should pay for the electric they use should bear the cost of both the initial electrical installation to the site and the costs of whatever system is needed to charge them according to their use.

Unfortunately for site owners I could see that resulting in the heavy-users/free loaders being put off, the light-users feeling they are being loaded with disproportionate infrastructure costs, and not enough extra income from electricity to cover the extra installation costs.

Seems like a 'Catch 22', which is only likely to get worse as electricity charges escalate.

There is no profit from selling electric we cannot sell it at a profit, it’s illegal

So it’s included in the pitch fee, which is why we cannot ‘reduce’ the pitch fee if the odd person doesn’t want hook up, as it would determine the cost of the electric

At Cornish Farm Touring Park for example, currently £25 a night for a pitch including electric, knock off a couple of quid and we have set the sale price of the electric at two quid.

If someone doesn’t use £2 worth of electricity we liable, and for what, a tiny percentage of people who don’t want electric

When we can’t fill the site I’ll rethink it, until then? Nah pick another site

Eddie

Please review the above.

I never mentioned 'profit' only 'cover the extra installation costs', which I assume is valid.

Geoff

 

[eddie]

If you can only sell leccy at a loss then you'll only encourage tuggers to charge their cars from the pitch bollards

Nah, tell them to 'do one'

 

[eddie]

So how do the sites that have "with or without" do it legally? Which they do.
it is the cost per unit that you cannot exceed ,you can charge what you want for the recovery of supply & installation costs.

They break the law unless they are metered

Metering is a pain as we are a touring park people can arrive when they like and leave as early as they like

Imagine wanting to leave early for say a ferry, but having to wait till the office opens yo pay your electricity bill!

OK so the Wardens could arrange to open up early, but on other threads, wardens were tossers as they would wait a couple of hours after closing time to help people who were running late!

There's a limit how dedicated you feel for twenty five quid

 

[GAVLAD]

I don’t agree with charging electric vehicles on electric hook ups as they weren’t intended for that purpose originally, but what campers (and I include motorhomes in that) use by way of heating or cookery gadgets is up to them in my view.
Just because someone can use gas but decides to utilise electric that’s included in the site fee is common sense.
I think that a site owner would have put their electric up before now if a family trying to holiday on the cheap in a tent puts a Fan heater on to take the edge off (and I’m sure there’ll be a few that do)

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[PhilandMena]

I've had a long held view on people who use electricity for every thig on site "coz I paid for it". But when it comes to leaving fan heaters on in awnings when going out, heaters on in van/caravan 24/7 and opening windows to cool off ( yes I do know people who do) and buying induction stoves because they do not want to use there own gas, I start to get grumpy! I am not an "eco worrier" but do hate waste. Today on a site in France I saw someone using the electricity to charge their car (German with a medium size caravan so must have come a distance) With the advancement in EV ranges I guess this will be happen more and more. Site owners rising electricity costs must be causing a real problem and at the end of the day they are a business. This can only result in them having to charge more for electricity which could make some increase their usage as they now have to pay more! I for one would welcome being charged for what I use as I do on the site I use in Spain but do appreciate the investment involved for site owners. What do Funsters think - especially those who run/own sites?

Most sites using or moving to metered lecce so job done.

 

[Tombola]

I regularly go on sites that only have picthes with EHU, and dont plug in. The reason for that is I like the sites.
I also go on sites that have no EHU, or mixed, saving a couole of quid on the leccy doesnt bother me @ .20 -25p per KWH or whatever it is now, if it fits in my budget and I like the site, I pay and stay, if it doesnt fit my buget or I feel they are taking the piss with the price, then I find one that does, but its never happened. yet.

This is what eddievanbitz talks about when he says market led. Do what your customers/target area want.

 

[Jamesh]

If your only using 13a supply who cares what you use it for?

You could have a fan heater on all night?
Or your EV? Who cares!!

 

[Arnside037]

My logic is that you are camping. It is inconvenient for site owners as well as expensive to install. The general public,regardless of what you charge, will always take liberties. If you don't supply it you won't have problems.

You wont have any customers either. Meter it. My CAMC associated site has now fitted meters on all pitches,

 

[teddybear]

Have been to sites on continent, was asked on arrival if wanted electric,if so,what amp. Then given appropriate fuse. Did joke that we ought to carry a pack of fuses with us. Maybe some of those who need to charge cars will resort to doing that

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[gus-lopez]

You wont have any customers either.

With the majority of customers it is usually far better to have none & far more relaxing.

 

[joe and sue]

WE found a small site in Staffordshire where you could buy cards to go into bollard to use EHU, £1, 5 or 10, surprised how litle we actually used, System seems to work fine !!

 

[nicholsong]

WE found a small site in Staffordshire where you could buy cards to go into bollard to use EHU, £1, 5 or 10, surprised how litle we actually used, System seems to work fine !!

Presumably the card just triggers a switch therefore not much infrastructure for the site owner to pay for, unless it is more complex than I envisage.

eddievanbitz are you watching this?

 

[Cherub]

WE found a small site in Staffordshire where you could buy cards to go into bollard to use EHU, £1, 5 or 10, surprised how litle we actually used, System seems to work fine !!

Same in Aberfeldy. We used just over £1 for 2 night stay.

 

[EzeeRider]

For Eddie https://www.rolecserv.com/c-smartcard-metering

ezee

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[eddie]

Presumably the card just triggers a switch therefore not much infrastructure for the site owner to pay for, unless it is more complex than I envisage.

eddievanbitz are you watching this?

Excellent I would thoroughly recommend you considering this when you open your own campsite

For Eddie https://www.rolecserv.com/c-smartcard-metering

ezee

Excellent £170 a pop plus the mounting stake circa £20 plus a couple of hours for a qualified Sparky to install / test / Issue Certificate say £100 a tenner for glands clips and cables and we are up to £300 a unit (because these are incompatible with our existing "tech towers" with dusk to dawn lighting water etc)

Fifty pitches so:-

50 x £300 = £15,000.00

£15,000.00 to solve a problem that we simply don't have, £15,000 wasted to satisfy a handful!

A couple of questions. as a touring park we've invested in a security entry system with Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) Our customers book on line, pay on line enter their details, so can arrive when it suits them, if they arrive after the Campsite reception is closed, no problem they pull onto their pitch and plug the van it and jobs a good 'un!

How do they get the card if they arrive after hours, current solution works, Smart Card doesn't

Our Customers get electricity included in their pitch fee, which is the "Rip off Britain" rate of £25 a night, and the electricity cannot run out at night. Smart Cards can run out of credit what happens then after hours? Again, current solution works, Smart Card doesn't

OK so "overload" the Smart Card to stop that scenario, meaning that you have credit on the Smart Card when you want to leave, no problem as you just have to wait until the office is open so you can get your £1.22 back, trouble is, you wanted to get away early which is why you chose us as a "touring park" Current solution, leave as early as you like works, Smart Card doesn't

Also lets be real, £22 - £25 a night, and we are at a "comfortable" level of busy. Just up the road you can stay with no hook up for only £27 so if anyone feels really strongly about being forced to pay for electric they can use the M5 Services and feel smug that their solar panel was an investment

 

[nicholsong]

Excellent I would thoroughly recommend you considering this when you open your own campsite

Excellent £170 a pop plus the mounting stake circa £20 plus a couple of hours for a qualified Sparky to install / test / Issue Certificate say £100 a tenner for glands clips and cables and we are up to £300 a unit (because these are incompatible with our existing "tech towers" with dusk to dawn lighting water etc)

Fifty pitches so:-

50 x £300 = £15,000.00

£15,000.00 to solve a problem that we simply don't have, £15,000 wasted to satisfy a handful!

A couple of questions. as a touring park we've invested in a security entry system with Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) Our customers book on line, pay on line enter their details, so can arrive when it suits them, if they arrive after the Campsite reception is closed, no problem they pull onto their pitch and plug the van it and jobs a good 'un!

How do they get the card if they arrive after hours, current solution works, Smart Card doesn't

Our Customers get electricity included in their pitch fee, which is the "Rip off Britain" rate of £25 a night, and the electricity cannot run out at night. Smart Cards can run out of credit what happens then after hours? Again, current solution works, Smart Card doesn't

OK so "overload" the Smart Card to stop that scenario, meaning that you have credit on the Smart Card when you want to leave, no problem as you just have to wait until the office is open so you can get your £1.22 back, trouble is, you wanted to get away early which is why you chose us as a "touring park" Current solution, leave as early as you like works, Smart Card doesn't

Also lets be real, £22 - £25 a night, and we are at a "comfortable" level of busy. Just up the road you can stay with no hook up for only £27 so if anyone feels really strongly about being forced to pay for electric they can use the M5 Services and feel smug that their solar panel was an investment

eddievanbitz , steady lad, you sound as though you are getting a bit worked up.

If we accept your installation figure of £300 that could be matched by a site owner to the demand for EHU pitches, so say 30% initially and if it proved oversubscribed, then added to incrementally.

I am sure that negotiating installation of 15 units could bring the cost below £300.

I accept your points about office opening and/or campers running out in the middle of the night, but that would probably end up to your advantage by them buying too much credit just in case. I would not even consider rebating them £1.22.


As a disinterested non-user I can see the reasoning on both sides. With the increased use of charging e-bikes and even e-cars on site, I can see that the discrepancy between EHU and non-EHU users diverging and that some sort of charging system will be needed, if not this year, then sometime soon.

 

[Sasbo]

Simples ..... Just ban all electric cars from site

 

[Dinosaur]

we like to go off grid in the summer so why should we pay for electric if we dont want it , it should be charged seperately now so we have a choice

 

[eddie]

eddievanbitz , steady lad, you sound as though you are getting a bit worked up.

Sorry should have included a wink

No next big change will take a couple of Million quid and let someone put 50 mobile homes on site

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