Shop workers threatened.

[Dutch 68]

I have every right to judge people who won't take the vaccine - especially when it is based upon misinformation, misunderstanding or simply Billy big bollocks nonsense. There are a vanishingly small number of legitimate clinical reasons for not being vaccinated.

However, you are quite right - people are quite free not to be vaccinated. But given it is the safe, effective, considerate and intelligent action to take - they shouldn't be surprised when other people judge them for the decisions they make in the midst of a viral pendemic that is killing and harming large numbers of people indiscriminately. It is the 85% of us who have made the right choice who are protecting the rest, and who have made it possible for the economy to relatively safely re-open.

Likewise, you are perfectly free to judge me for the choices I make - it's no skin off my nose if you do, and part of being free.

The point about not being vaccinated being antisocial like drink-drving - is that the individual poses a risk to other innocent and uninvolved parties who can take no precautions themselves to avoid the risk. That is anti-social beahviour in my book. It took a while for drink driving to be thought of this way too. "It's only a couple of drinks, I'm doing no harm" was tolerated for far too long.

On the point of masks - I wear one all day at work. The surgeons and theatre staff here don't seem to find it unhealthy in least to wear theirs all day - and have done all their careers, not just the past year and a half. Ever thought about that one?

Declaration of interest: I know a reasonable degree of what I am talking about. I have worked in the NHS for the past 26 years, worked on the covid response daily throughout the pandemic in a heart/chest hospital. Since last December I have run the vaccine rollout across 2 counties, and a hospital vaccination centre. It is my business to understand the science and policy.

I wish you made it your business not to judge other people based on a opinion you hold, but then it shows that not all people are respectful of others opinions, I am respectful of yours, but don’t try to force it upon others, two world wars have shown what happens if people get too strong in judging and forcing other people to follow a direction enforced by politicians, it doesn’t normally end well, trust people to make their own decisions and live and let live!

 

[Jim]

The vaccine is still undergoing clinical trials until 2023 ...do you know that more men in their 40's have died after 1 dose of the astra zeneca vaccine in the last 4 months than have died in total from covid in the last 18 months ?

Bringing it back to the Nightshade family of vegetables. Most people who died this year had eaten potatoes. Most everyone who dies this year will have had the jab. So we could easily blame every death on one or the other and conspiracy theorists will. Fact is people do die, every day.

 

[phillipsheila]

Potatoes haven't been shown to reduce the rate of Covid-19 transmission have they? Wearing masks seems to be a recommended measure to combat the spread, even if it upsets those who struggle with the idea of protecting others.

my Potato died of covid he didnt wear a mask

sorry couldnt help myself

 

[Glas Robin]

I wish you made it your business not to judge other people based on a opinion you hold, but then it shows that not all people are respectful of others opinions, I am respectful of yours, but don’t try to force it upon others, two world wars have shown what happens if people get too strong in judging and forcing other people to follow a direction enforced by politicians, it doesn’t normally end well, trust people to make their own decisions and live and let live!

You mistake what I said.

No one is forced to have the vaccine, and I did not suggest they should be.
People are free to judge others for the choices they make (and to be judged themselves too).

Both of those are entirely compatible with a free society - they type we fought two world wars for as you indicate.

 

[MattR]

I wish you made it your business not to judge other people based on a opinion you hold, but then it shows that not all people are respectful of others opinions, I am respectful of yours, but don’t try to force it upon others, two world wars have shown what happens if people get too strong in judging and forcing other people to follow a direction enforced by politicians, it doesn’t normally end well, trust people to make their own decisions and live and let live!

How would you respond to someone who claimed that information based on the investigations of experts was wrong and their personal opinions were correct?

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[Swifter]

This thread is on fire , can’t keep up

 

[Glas Robin]

Bringing it back to the Nightshade family of vegetables. Most people who died this year had eaten potatoes. Most everyone who dies this year will have had the jab. So we could easily blame every death on one or the other and conspiracy theorists will. Fact is people do die, every day.

Indeed - around 1000 people over the age of 80 die every week in the UK. It is a sad fact. The trick is to find a way to stay under 80....

 

[Northernraider]

Would you care to cite your source. A reputable one. Because I assure you it is not true.

The same source that requested i take part in a clinical trial

It's entirely possible you caught it and had no symptoms. Around a third of people are like this - but they can still pass it on unknowingly.

Masks are one tool that helps reduce the transmission risk. Not perfect, but a useful part of the armoury.

I am glad you've kept well, and hope people have thanked you for what you do.

As someone who catches every cold out there i can't believe for a minute that ive had it and had no symptoms.

That just seems a convenient claim to me.

By that same rule i could have had umpteen viruses in my life that ive not known about. But i doubt it.

 

[Glas Robin]

The same source that requested i take part in a clinical trial

Somebody told me... You made a claim - you should substantiate it or withdraw it. It is wrong and misinformation.

 

[Glas Robin]

As someone who catches every cold out there i can't believe for a minute that ive had it and had no symptoms.

That just seems a convenient claim to me.

By that same rule i could have had umpteen viruses in my life that ive not known about. But i doubt it.

"Nature" is possibly the most respected scientific journal in the world - and not known for publishing "convenient claims". Last autumn they published this - it is an honest assessment of asymptomatic rates and the potential transmission risk. There are many other studies all round the world - and in the UK we think the figure is probably around 30%.

What the data say about asymptomatic COVID infections

People without symptoms can pass on the virus, but estimating their contribution to outbreaks is challenging.

www.nature.com

And yes - you've certainly been infected by umpteen virsues during your life that you've not known about.

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[Northernraider]

Somebody told me... You made a claim - you should substantiate it or withdraw it. It is wrong and misinformation.

Look i received the letter .. those figures were quoted in the letter ...i had no interest in taking part in the trial and I can't remember the name of the organisation doing it but it involved attending an interview at herriot watt university in Edinburgh ...advance/advanced / clinical research ...or something similar. I'll ask mum tomorrow if she remembers the name as both she and my sister ( who is NHS) wanted me to do it.

I got the letter about a week to 10 days after my first jab

 

[Thedriver]

Wearing a mask has become a political (?!) statement, allegedly .
I live in a small Midlands industrial town , where , on social media, the ignorant and uneducated gather to expound their extremist theories.Often very right wing, I discovered. If you are racist, you don't think you're racist , you think " you're the voice of the people"
We've all got too much time on our hands.
Ideally, look at social media as little is possible.
Last time I looked , people there were talking about black people and saying " would you want one living next door to you"

I heard today (reliable source not twatter, ) that racism has gone up 60% in the last 5 years. Funny that!!
What goes it take to make people in this country listen to reliable sources for there information and not sad people spreading complete garbage on Social media, What my mate said, A bloke told me so it must be true, All my mates agree with me, this professor in outer mongolia said.
If I feel that I have to wear a mask for as long as it takes, I will wear one. Is it too much to put up with. stop trying to defend the undefendable.
Have you noticed that most of the anti vaxers and anti maskers are the same people that voted in 2016. still trying to pretend they know exactly what they are doing!!! Don't bother to come back at me with your comments against my comments I am not interested, I am just pi..ed off with listening to people bickering. It's only my opinion. Regards Bruce.

 

[Northernraider]

"Nature" is possibly the most respected scientific journal in the world - and not known for publishing "convenient claims". Last autumn they published this - it is an honest assessment of asymptomatic rates and the potential transmission risk. There are many other studies all round the world - and in the UK we think the figure is probably around 30%.

What the data say about asymptomatic COVID infections

People without symptoms can pass on the virus, but estimating their contribution to outbreaks is challenging.

www.nature.com

And yes - you've certainly been infected by umpteen virsues during your life that you've not known about.

And never took tests to find out thats my point.

The more tests done the more positive results you will get ...many of which have been false positives.

The only statistics im interested in to be honest is the ones from worldometers which show workdwide figures including all the countries who didnt have such a large vaccine rollout yet the figures have remained consistent.

 

[Jamesh]

The vaccine is still undergoing clinical trials until 2023 ...do you know that more men in their 40's have died after 1 dose of the astra zeneca vaccine in the last 4 months than have died in total from covid in the last 18 months ?

People have many reasons not to be vaccinated .

Its also caused a rise in erectile dysfunction in males hence the increase in adverts on tv and social media for Viagra and i wish i was kidding.

Just done a little digging.....

507 40 yo men died of covid in the 6 months from. June to January 2020. So in the 18 months 1500 may have died .... Astra zenica would have been pulled pretty sharpish if that were the case........

COVID-19 confirmed deaths in England (to 31 January 2021): report

www.gov.uk

Not getting at you Tam just looking at the facts

Cheers James

 

[Jim]

Back to potatoes...

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[Swifter]

 

[Northernraider]

Back to potatoes...

I like albert bartletts

Chips are good too

 

[Northernraider]

Just done a little digging.....

507 40 yo men died of covid in the 6 months from. June to January 2020. So in the 18 months 1500 may have died .... Astra zenica would have been pulled pretty sharpish if that were the case........

COVID-19 confirmed deaths in England (to 31 January 2021): report

www.gov.uk

Not getting at you Tam just looking at the facts

Cheers James

Its not been pulled because like the whole approach to the vaccine they hope it saves more lives than those who have complications.

Personally i had no side affects or any problems. But others have.

Time will tell

 

[Jillytots]

I heard today (reliable source not twatter, ) that racism has gone up 60% in the last 5 years. Funny that!!
What goes it take to make people in this country listen to reliable sources for there information and not sad people spreading complete garbage on Social media, What my mate said, A bloke told me so it must be true, All my mates agree with me, this professor in outer mongolia said.
If I feel that I have to wear a mask for as long as it takes, I will wear one. Is it too much to put up with. stop trying to defend the undefendable.
Have you noticed that most of the anti vaxers and anti maskers are the same people that voted in 2016. still trying to pretend they know exactly what they are doing!!! Don't bother to come back at me with your comments against my comments I am not interested, I am just pi..ed off with listening to people bickering. It's only my opinion. Regards Bruce.

Sorry , you’ve lost me .
Coming back with “don’t bother to respond “ actually means” I can’t do a reasoned debate”
I don’t follow Twitter. I respect even less people who call it twatter.
When you said” I read today” .. and “ racism has gone up by 60% , funny that”
Can I suggest you stop getting your news off Facebook feeds.
Come on, if people are racist, just admit it.
Regarding shop staff, I’ve got a friend who works in Morrisons,and she tells me customers are trying to get her to take Political sides to vent their anger ..
Pulease.. it’s just a shop. Get out more and find real people to debate with, rather than captives stuck behind a till.

 

[glenn2926]

On this side of the border i observe about 50/50 wearing/not wearing in shops
Personal choice i prefer to wear, i try to keep well clear of people that chose not to and appreciated they don't have to.
There are still 25,000 a day confirmed, it's coming from somewhere. So in my mind i will still wear a mask indoors until the number gets down to about 5k ish.
My choice.

I’m the opposite to you. If you want to continue wearing a mask that’s fine but I’ll be giving you a very wide berth as wearing masks is to protect others from the mask wearer. Therefore the mask wearer must have something we need protecting from.
I don’t mind which people decide to do but preaching how rightful the mask wearers feel is not really helping their cause.

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[Northernraider]

I heard today (reliable source not twatter, ) that racism has gone up 60% in the last 5 years. Funny that!!
What goes it take to make people in this country listen to reliable sources for there information and not sad people spreading complete garbage on Social media, What my mate said, A bloke told me so it must be true, All my mates agree with me, this professor in outer mongolia said.
If I feel that I have to wear a mask for as long as it takes, I will wear one. Is it too much to put up with. stop trying to defend the undefendable.
Have you noticed that most of the anti vaxers and anti maskers are the same people that voted in 2016. still trying to pretend they know exactly what they are doing!!! Don't bother to come back at me with your comments against my comments I am not interested, I am just pi..ed off with listening to people bickering. It's only my opinion. Regards Bruce.

Ive read from several sources that racism and homophobia has been on the increase steadily for more than the last 5 years....in fact i watched a documentary on tv a few months back on the very subject. One interesting point was the older generation in the uks obsession with the war ....and the fact that certain political figures use that language etc

It was quite interesting.

 

[phillipsheila]

Carm down carm down Its MHF



oLD MO HHHEEELLLPPPP

 

[Glas Robin]

Look i received the letter .. those figures were quoted in the letter ...i had no interest in taking part in the trial and I can't remember the name of the organisation doing it but it involved attending an interview at herriot watt university in Edinburgh ...advance/advanced / clinical research ...or something similar. I'll ask mum tomorrow if she remembers the name as both she and my sister ( who is NHS) wanted me to do it.

I got the letter about a week to 10 days after my first jab

Thanks - that's helpful. Without seeing the letter it is hard to understand what they are saying.

But let me reassure you with the published data. There is a very helpful and detailed publication here that discusses all of the reported vaccine-related adverse events. It is updated regularly:

Coronavirus vaccine - summary of Yellow Card reporting

www.gov.uk

It reports that since the beginning of the vaccine rollout in the UK, around 45 million AstraZeneca doses have been given between December 2020 and July 2021. In this time there have been 1024 deaths after a vaccination (possibly days or weeks after) that resulted in a "yellow card" notification - this is what happens when vaccinators, doctors, researchers, nurses etc suspect that there may possibly be a link between serious event and a medicine. Of the 1024 deaths, the researchers report that "The majority of these reports were in elderly people or people with underlying illness. Usage of the vaccines has increased over the course of the campaigns and as such, so has reporting of fatal events with a temporal association with vaccination however, this does not indicate a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported. Review of individual reports and patterns of reporting does not suggest the vaccines played a role in these deaths"

Essentially they conclude that most deaths were in older or ill people, and were not related to the vaccine. However, lets for argument's sake suggest all 1024 were in people in their 40s and all were due to the AZ vaccine. NB This is absolutely not the case, but I am taking a worst case scenario to test your claim.

1024 is still lower than the total number of 1519 deaths from COVID 19 in the UK in 40-49 year-olds in the past 12 months to June 2021 - so 3 times as long a period as your claim for the past 4 months.

COVID-19 confirmed deaths in England (to 30 June 2021): report

www.gov.uk

Taking a very worst-case scenario for AZ vaccine deaths in the 40-49 year olds (1024) and three times as long a period for covid deaths as you suggested (1519) - it is quite clear that the suggestion that there have been more vaccine related deaths than covid deaths in those in their 40s is simply not true. This is without considering the vaccine has already reduced many-fold the covid deaths we would otherwise have seen in those in their 40s.

The reality is all the UK covid vacines are very safe and very effective - and have saved many thousands of lives in the UK in the past 9 months.

Once more - for the avoidance of doubt - the yellow card reports do not suggest 1024 people's deaths were caused by the AZ vaccine. I have only used the figure to test out your claim as strongly as I could.

My request was a serious one earlier - please don't repeat information unless you know it to be categorically true. There are many people who don't fully understand the important issues and who are swayed by what they read on the internet. I've hogged this thread long enough - if you have any other questions I would be very happy to try and help.

I do this for a living. In the 2 counties I'm working in, we've now vaccinated almost 90% of adults with a first dose. It's vital work if we want to get back to normal.

 

[Swifter]

Carm down carm down Its MHF



oLD MO HHHEEELLLPPPP

Looks like me when my motorhome passed the MOT

 

[Tombola]

If coming to Wales for a holiday, please remember that face masks still have to be worn in shops and public buildings.
We are a different country and that is still the law here, so please respect that and obey it.

Shop workers are being abused by tourist as they try to explain that. Today, one young lady shop worker, was threatened with being glassed by a tourist today, who argued with her that he didn’t have to.

Please adhere to this law and remember to have some respect for these people just doing their job. You can still have a good time here.

I agree whole heartedly
And what irony that today, I am on holiday and a family of obnoxious idiots from Caerphilly have decided NOT to wear them, and cause a ruckuss in the restaurant with the woman being the most vile stuff coming out of her mouth to the staff and anyone welse who cared to intervene.
All 3 have asthma apparently.
The mum age 30 ish is probably 22 stone
the dad age 30 ish hmmmm? 24
and the 10 year old kid...about 13 stone (thats child abuse as far as Im concerned)

Asthma my arse.

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[Swifter]

I agree whole heartedly
And what irony that today, I am on holiday and a family of obnoxious idiots from Caerphilly have decided NOT to wear them, and cause a ruckuss in the restaurant with the woman being the most vile stuff coming out of her mouth to the staff and anyone welse who cared to intervene.
All 3 have asthma apparently.
The mum age 30 ish is probably 22 stone
the dad age 30 ish hmmmm? 24
and the 10 year old kid...about 13 stone (thats child abuse as far as Im concerned)

Asthma my arse.

The unfortunate thing is that the adults will be at serious risk at that weight !

 

[glenn2926]

The unfortunate thing is that the adults will be at serious risk at that weight !

But no great loss to society.

 

[Swifter]

But no great loss to society.

I should have said ironic rather than unfortunate

 

[The Old Man]

On this side of the border i observe about 50/50 wearing/not wearing in shops
Personal choice i prefer to wear, i try to keep well clear of people that chose not to and appreciated they don't have to.
There are still 25,000 a day confirmed, it's coming from somewhere. So in my mind i will still wear a mask indoors until the number gets down to about 5k ish.
My choice.

+1

 

[The Old Man]

Its unlikely they would take covid home as the masks don't stop you catching it ...they are supposed to stop you spreading it if you had it.

+1

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