Rumours about dropping C1 test

[Googlebot]

I keep hearing rumours about C1 being dropped from the licence requirement.

This would mean Lucy can also drive up to 7.5t so we can uprate our van so that we aren’t struggling all the time to stay under the legal limits.

This in my view is great news for those of us with families who always struggle with weight.

Has anyone heard anything concrete or have any more information about the change?

I also need to find someone who can possibly do the uprating.

 

[DDJC]

Yep that is all traffic, alot of which never used to happen and is a contribution to congestion. What was your point?

I think the point being observed is a soupçon of hypocrisy that you still drive a car and a motorhome and complain about too many vehicles.
I don't complain about too many vehicles and so still drive my motorhome and car. I shall continue to do regardless of what a bunch of idiot concrete-dwelling infrastructure planners and 'experts' say.

 

[2x2camper]

I think the point being observed is a soupçon of hypocrisy that you still drive a car and a motorhome and complain about too many vehicles.
I don't complain about too many vehicles and so still drive my motorhome and car. I shall continue to do regardless of what a bunch of idiot concrete-dwelling infrastructure planners and 'experts' say.

So at what point in your mind is their too many vehicles on our roads, or do you want to keep building roads till there is a gap for you to park in. It's about using the right vehicle for what you are trying to achieve. Ie a car is not suitable to drive 200 yards to the shop whee walking is nore suitable.

 

[nicholsong]

There is a lot of "bad law" going on here. The law has not moved on to recognise the needs of modern MOHO owners. As we all know the sales of leisure vehicles has been massive over the past few years and the vehicle technology has also improved greatly - DfT and their current ministers need to catch up on this instead of leaving us to try to force-fit the needs of modern motorhomers into a licence category designed for hauliers. I passed my test in a very small car a great many years ago. Since then I have been allowed to drive some very big vehicles. That's been OK - you adjust just as anyone does when moving from a car to a MOHO. And it is always good to get advice from more experienced drivers. Within the tolerances we are talking about the weight stamped on the plate of MOHOs is sort of irrelevant and a distraction from the real issue. As a MOHO driver I don't really care about the power source. I'm driving a big unit and quite simply I need to take appropriate care. If I upgrade from 3500 to 4200 or whatever. That is just a number but my attitude remains vigilant and appropriate to the vehicle I am driving.

In which, and how many countries?

Not many of us confine ourselves to one country.

 

[Sandancers]

So at what point in your mind is their too many vehicles on our roads, or do you want to keep building roads till there is a gap for you to park in. It's about using the right vehicle for what you are trying to achieve. Ie a car is not suitable to drive 200 yards to the shop whee walking is nore suitable.

DDJC nailed it. You can't harang other people and complain about the amount of traffic when you contribute to the problem you are complaining about.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[x17ken]

In which, and how many countries?

Not many of us confine ourselves to one country.

The context of my comments is about UK driving licence entitlements and concerns that they limit the effective use of MOHOs here in the UK. The comments are not about driving licence entitlements outside the UK. I hope this clarifies my comments.

 

[2x2camper]

DDJC nailed it. You can't harang other people and complain about the amount of traffic when you contribute to the problem you are complaining about.

OK how do you want to solve the congestion problem? Or do you think there isn't a problem?

We have actually reduced our use of vehicles over the last few years if we had a better public transport system we could reduce it more.

DDJC activity wants to increase road use because he doesn't want to mix with other's on public transport. With that attitude the problem will only get worse.

 

[Sandancers]

OK how do you want to solve the congestion problem? Or do you think there isn't a problem?

We have actually reduced our use of vehicles over the last few years if we had a better public transport system we could reduce it more.

DDJC activity wants to increase road use because he doesn't want to mix with other's on public transport. With that attitude the problem will only get worse.

Well we didn't have much of a congestion problem round here until one of the local councils started closing off roads, then strangely congestion went up on the remaining roads, with of course the accompanying air pollution. So of course then they HAD to bring in an air quality charge for certain vehicles to get into Newcastle.

Also, those who think congestion is too bad should give up their vehicles and find alternative transportation. They could also run for the council on the "improve public transport" ticket.

 

[2x2camper]

Well we didn't have much of a congestion problem round here until one of the local councils started closing off roads, then strangely congestion went up on the remaining roads, with of course the accompanying air pollution. So of course then they HAD to bring in an air quality charge for certain vehicles to get into Newcastle.

Also, those who think congestion is too bad should give up their vehicles and find alternative transportation. They could also run for the council on the "improve public transport" ticket.

Of we had the same number of vehicles as the seventies we would have the same problems. We have a lot more of course councils are going to mange that increase.

As we know councils tend to bend to the wishes of the loudest not necessarily to the right thing.

 

[nicholsong]

The context of my comments is about UK driving licence entitlements and concerns that they limit the effective use of MOHOs here in the UK. The comments are not about driving licence entitlements outside the UK. I hope this clarifies my comments.

The reason for my post is that I estimate that at least 50% of MH owners on this forum do take their MHs to the Continent, or Ireland, including NI and the legislation at present only extends to Great Britain, even NI is excluded(unless they have passed parallel legislation)

Therefore the extra UK entitlement would not be of use to those wishing to travel further afield, unless other countries are lobbied to do likewise.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[x17ken]

The points you make are very relevant. On the UK /NI position my understanding is that driving licence matters are a matter for the devolved Government in NI - there are alignment principles - but also some autonomy aspects that differ from GB. Vehicle licensing matters are however UK-wide. I don't have stats about the number of MH owners who travel further afield to the continent so I don't agree or disagree with your estimate. But the principle that I am advancing here and elsewhere is that MH drivers are not commercial vehicle drivers. We are driving expensive and special vehicles that are materially different from guys delivering goods in HGV vans. This needs better recognition in law here and further afield if necessary.

 

[enark]

OK how do you want to solve the congestion problem? Or do you think there isn't a problem?

We have actually reduced our use of vehicles over the last few years if we had a better public transport system we could reduce it more.

DDJC activity wants to increase road use because he doesn't want to mix with other's on public transport. With that attitude the problem will only get worse.

Encourage more cycling, and demonise drivers who abuse cyclist

trains, yes improve the offering, but buses, just get rid, waste of space that clog up the roads far more than their worth…

 

[enark]

The points you make are very relevant. On the UK /NI position my understanding is that driving licence matters are a matter for the devolved Government in NI - there are alignment principles - but also some autonomy aspects that differ from GB. Vehicle licensing matters are however UK-wide. I don't have stats about the number of MH owners who travel further afield to the continent so I don't agree or disagree with your estimate. But the principle that I am advancing here and elsewhere is that MH drivers are not commercial vehicle drivers. We are driving expensive and special vehicles that are materially different from guys delivering goods in HGV vans. This needs better recognition in law here and further afield if necessary.

i agree

to drive a very large engineering vehicle or a cement delivery vehicle etc only requires a cat B….

 

[Coolcats]

Nobody disagrees, it’s just where are the boundaries drawn.

arguably a 7495 kg vehicle is neither long or heavy?

Most estate cars are under 5m and probably no more than 1500 kg so yes many C1 licence vehicles are heavier and longer. The boundary has been drawn we may not like it but there it is. Again for many the last test they have had will be 40 or even 50 years ago so there is a case for updating a driver. I would not want to see a doctor or dentist who had not had updates through their careers

 

[DDJC]

OK how do you want to solve the congestion problem? Or do you think there isn't a problem?

Yep there is too much traffic on the roads. So here are some suggestions that don't involve forcing everyone onto dirty, smelly, packed, expensive, germ-filled, inconvenient, city-centric, (I could probably add several hundred more pejorative & uncomplimentary terms) public transport.

1. Test everyone every three years. You fail, you cannot retest for a six months.
2.
3. Give back the cycle lanes to ICE and replace them with new ones away from the road. Safer for all.
4. Start enforcing lane discipline on motorways. Middle and outside laners should have their cars crushed
5. Buses should give way to cars in the same way that the new highway code insists that the bigger the vehicle, the more responsibility it has.

We have actually reduced our use of vehicles over the last few years if we had a better public transport system we could reduce it more.

I think you have just hoisted yourself onto your own petard there. Surely if personal vehicle use has declined, yet traffic is worse now that it used to be, we need to look somewhere else for the culprit. Buses and cyclists perhaps?

DDJC activity wants to increase road use because he doesn't want to mix with other's on public transport. With that attitude the problem will only get worse.

You got it. I am a private person who is not interested in standing up like a vertical sardine, for hours, listening to other people's inane gossip, crap music, phone conversations, or watching others drinking, eating, puking and fighting. Perhaps you do? Well knock yourself out because there is plenty of it on buses and trains.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Googlebot]

You got it. I am a private person who is not interested in standing up like a vertical sardine, for hours, listening to other people's inane gossip, crap music, phone conversations, or watching others drinking, eating, puking and fighting. Perhaps you do? Well knock yourself out because there is plenty of it on buses and trains.

How do you know that if you refuse to use it?

It certainly isn’t the public transport I see around Birmingham.

 

[DDJC]

How do you know that if you refuse to use it?

It certainly isn’t the public transport I see around Birmingham.

I had three stints of commuting in London. 1988-91 (train), 1995-97 (train and tube) and 2000 to 2005 (train and tube).
Every sodding morning and evening. I still shudder thinking about it. Standing on a cold train platform in sheeting rain for a train that is twenty minutes late ... and then cancelled. Not occasionally, regularly.
I have several really close friends who have to still use it. They are my age, but look so much more haggard! Might be them not having a motorhome, though

Don't do public transport any more unless I absolutely have to. We drive everywhere.
A couple of times a year, I have to get on a train for three stops to meet up with friends. That's it.
Never, ever use buses. I could apply to get a free bus pass in 2032, but I won't be doing that.

 

[cyberyacht]

Not using the car/motorhome for a trip into town( pick your own) is quite liberating. No parking charges or clock watching to ensure you don't overstay. I type from the perspective of a free bus pass holder though. Cycling into busy urban areas with the excuses for cycleways (a few gallons of Dulux and naff all else) makes it akin to the risks commensurate with big wave surfing.

 

[nicholsong]

Not using the car/motorhome for a trip into town( pick your own) is quite liberating. No parking charges or clock watching to ensure you don't overstay. I type from the perspective of a free bus pass holder though. Cycling into busy urban areas with the excuses for cycleways (a few gallons of Dulux and naff all else) makes it akin to the risks commensurate with big wave surfing.

Does the bus driver wait while you load 4 cases of 6xbottles of wine, plus the other shopping?

 

[cyberyacht]

That would be at the discount wine outlets/Auchan/Carrefour etc in France so I'd have the Moho then.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[RobinE]

Never, ever use buses. I could apply to get a free bus pass in 2032, but I won't be doing that.

I used to have a similar negative view, but have changed. I frequently travel to Stoke Mandeville eye clinic from Milton Keynes for consultations, I can't drive as they put drops in my eyes which impairs my vision. I have either imposed on a family member or Ubered it at ever increasing cost. Last time I thought sod it I'll try the bus, not a bad experience at all and cost peanuts. Definitely do that again. Also had good experiences with park and ride in Oxford, Cambridge and Exeter. Motorhome parking too. Also enjoyed the buses in Edinburgh last time we stayed at the CAMC site there.
I do agree public transport needs a lot more investment, but we all should try it and keep an open mind, just my opinion

 

[DDJC]

I used to have a similar negative view, but have changed. I frequently travel to Stoke Mandeville eye clinic from Milton Keynes for consultations, I can't drive as they put drops in my eyes which impairs my vision. I have either imposed on a family member or Ubered it at ever increasing cost. Last time I thought sod it I'll try the bus, not a bad experience at all and cost peanuts. Definitely do that again. Also had good experiences with park and ride in Oxford, Cambridge and Exeter. Motorhome parking too. Also enjoyed the buses in Edinburgh last time we stayed at the CAMC site there.
I do agree public transport needs a lot more investment, but we all should try it and keep an open mind, just my opinion

Horses for courses. I know some people like it, even rely on it.

But why should the UK invest in public transport? It has immense failings, not least that it is not designed for rural areas. Why should rural communities pay for urban dwellers to move from one bit of graffitied concrete to another? Do they pay for my fuel? Do they pay my insurance? Is there a grant available for my tyres and MOT?
So why should I pay for their journey to work?

The way to invest in public transport is to make it self funding. If it can pay its way, no problem. If not, scrap it. Following Covid and the explosion in high speed broadband, there is a reduced need for it. Most metropolitan mayors biggest complaint, is that fewer people are using public transport services to come into the bigger urban areas. Mayors are bigger fools than anyone supposes, if they think that it is a reversible trend.

It is difficult to fully answer this without veering into taboo subjects, better proponed in the Belly Locker. Nevertheless, it is legitimate to say that the desire to drag car drivers out of their cars and down into the grey amorphousness of public transport is typical of the anti-ambition and wealth envy of only one side of the argument.

 

[2x2camper]

Horses for courses. I know some people like it, even rely on it.

But why should the UK invest in public transport? It has immense failings, not least that it is not designed for rural areas. Why should rural communities pay for urban dwellers to move from one bit of graffitied concrete to another? Do they pay for my fuel? Do they pay my insurance? Is there a grant available for my tyres and MOT?
So why should I pay for their journey to work?

The way to invest in public transport is to make it self funding. If it can pay its way, no problem. If not, scrap it. Following Covid and the explosion in high speed broadband, there is a reduced need for it. Most metropolitan mayors biggest complaint, is that fewer people are using public transport services to come into the bigger urban areas. Mayors are bigger fools than anyone supposes, if they think that it is a reversible trend.

It is difficult to fully answer this without veering into taboo subjects, better proponed in the Belly Locker. Nevertheless, it is legitimate to say that the desire to drag car drivers out of their cars and down into the grey amorphousness of public transport is typical of the anti-ambition and wealth envy of only one side of the argument.

Thats the basis of tax though. You pay an amount and may use some of the services but not all. So some use the NHS alot but others not at all, same as transport. Transport will never make a profit overall, it will always need taxpayer support. What would bet more people on to public transport is more support from the government in pushing its merits as well as more money for it. There is a lot of money in transport at the moment just not spent on the right things. Stop all roads building for a start and use it to fund public transport, repair the existing roads and provide better walking and cycling facilities. You could also use some of the money to get more local businesses going

 

[JaG]

It wouldn't be heavier it just wouldn't be overloaded.

Know that feeling only too well Lenny.
Just been in contact with VWE, who are on holiday at the moment, as my Autotrail Cheyenne 740SE weights 3850kg with nowt in it, with a 3900kg MGW. Just gas bottles, solars, fuel and one person. Hoping to get 4250kg, like most the same size then like you, won't be overweight, not that I ever am.

 

[olley]

Over 7500kg I would say IVECO daily are certainly hydraulic up to 7495kg or over in rare up plating circumstances, I think some Mercedes Vario under 7500kg have had air in the past.

All the workhorse W series were made with power assisted hydraulic disk brakes, my W20 weighs 9.4k, I think the W24 was 11 or 12k.
One occasion under heavy braking I felt the anti-lock kick in so they are very effective, certainly not saying they are better than air though.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Freo]

On the braking issues …

For a few years of my working life, I drove various rigid lorries with air brakes. Many years later, I subsequently became the proud owner of a tag axle Motorhome. It was based on a Fiat Ducato 3L with an extended ALKO chassis and had a MAM of 5 ton and a total train weight of 6 ton, which I was always careful not too exceed. Nonetheless, I always had the feeling that the all round hydraulic disc brakes on that vehicle were maybe just not quite up to the job, and I would have felt much more comfortable and safer with air brakes. (As a separate issue, the handbrake was always struggling on steepish inclines to hold the vehicle, too.)

As some have alluded to, this is hardly a good situation for any driver who has absolutely no experience of driving a heavier vehicle. Consequently, no matter what the outcome is regarding the requirement to pass a test, or not, to get a C1 license, perhaps some mandatory element of practical driver tuition would be advisable in the interests of safety?

 

[Portland]

Too much population, congested roads, useless public transport, don't worry, with the sea levels rising and flooding great swathes of the country we can all live on house boats and drive rowing boats, and motorhomes will become yachts

 

[enark]

Too much population, congested roads, useless public transport, don't worry, with the sea levels rising and flooding great swathes of the country we can all live on house boats and drive rowing boats, and motorhomes will become yachts

Oh and then the fun would start…..

most yacht owners have probably undergone RYA training, however some don’t bother, and I’ve seen some of the results…..the sea is far less forgiving than the M1 etc

 

[nicholsong]

Oh and then the fun would start…..

most yacht owners have probably undergone RYA training, however some don’t bother, and I’ve seen some of the results…..the sea is far less forgiving than the M1 etc

I once had a open discussion with a RYA Yachtmaster examiner and asked about taking the test singlehanded and the answer was that it was designed to be with crew.

We therefore agreed that to do it with crew, when I was intending to go off single-handed, was pointless, so I never did.

However I sailed my Westerly 33 for 30 years and probably covered 25-30,000nm. successfully, but I had already learnt a lot from crewing on a 12-metre Class "Evaine", including winning the Britannia Cup at Cowes in 1972 under a very competent skipper.

 

[Widge]

Oh and then the fun would start…..

most yacht owners have probably undergone RYA training, however some don’t bother, and I’ve seen some of the results…..the sea is far less forgiving than the M1 etc

I signed up to a day skipper evening once, unfortunately the guy running it knew his stuff but was a hopeless at teaching. Also I soon discovered that over half the class were using the course to hopefully make friends with somebody that had a boat, they soon gave me a wide berth when they found out that all i had was a small sailing catamaran. I couldn't stand it after a few lectures and didn't bother going back.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cyberyacht]

I did the 'Coastal Skipper' nav course many moons ago but that was the extent of my 'training'. Surprising the level of 'boat and rope handling' that one sees now. I started back when an auxiliary engine was a bit of a luxury so you learned at lot.