Rumours about dropping C1 test

[Googlebot]

I keep hearing rumours about C1 being dropped from the licence requirement.

This would mean Lucy can also drive up to 7.5t so we can uprate our van so that we aren’t struggling all the time to stay under the legal limits.

This in my view is great news for those of us with families who always struggle with weight.

Has anyone heard anything concrete or have any more information about the change?

I also need to find someone who can possibly do the uprating.

 

[Lenny HB]

I don't think e-vans come into it.
They will probably increase the 3500kg GVW for electric powered vans ONLY to maybe 4250kg to account for battery weight but still drivable on a B licence.

See the link in post #14

 

[Littlewheels]

Better start thinking up other excuses!

Simples- No - any murmers- what part of No don’t you understand

 

[Widge]

There are all sorts of weird anomalies in the licensing system, I looked it up prompted by watching an old episode of QI, Aparently you can drive a Bus on a B category licence as long as you are carrying no more than 8 passengers and the bus was constructed more than 30 years before the date it is being driven, I wonder what happens if you do a camper conversion?

 

[Lenny HB]

There are all sorts of weird anomalies in the licensing system, I looked it up prompted by watching an old episode of QI, Aparently you can drive a Bus on a B category licence as long as you are carrying no more than 8 passengers and the bus was constructed more than 30 years before the date it is being driven, I wonder what happens if you do a camper conversion?

It's crazy my SIL has a D1 licence he can drive an 8m 16 seater minibus, no weight limit specified but can't drive a Motorhome or van over 3.5t, but the minibus could weigh anything.

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[Coolcats]

It's been spoken about for some time. All I can say is that those of us with grandfather rights didn't go around crashing into things because we were "out of our depth". In fact my first 5 driving lessons were in a Bedford 4 Tonner (MJ series), then a 1 ton Landrover, then 110 and 90 Landrover before doing my test in a Mini Metro. A week later I was driving a 1 Ton LR pulling a trailer with a missile launcher on the back valued at c£10-15m in todays money.

But didn’t the Army/Airforce make you drive them across empty fields with only sheep to worry about?

 

[Coolcats]

There are all sorts of weird anomalies in the licensing system, I looked it up prompted by watching an old episode of QI, Aparently you can drive a Bus on a B category licence as long as you are carrying no more than 8 passengers and the bus was constructed more than 30 years before the date it is being driven, I wonder what happens if you do a camper conversion?

They do it out of a sense of punishment as this is what happens !

 

[andysam]

But didn’t the Army/Airforce make you drive them across empty fields with only sheep to worry about?

The ranges were in the Outer Hebrides, it takes a while to get there at 40mph!

 

[Silver-Fox]

There are all sorts of weird anomalies in the licensing system, I looked it up prompted by watching an old episode of QI, Aparently you can drive a Bus on a B category licence as long as you are carrying no more than 8 passengers and the bus was constructed more than 30 years before the date it is being driven, I wonder what happens if you do a camper conversion?

Yes this is a strange one.

I have a full coach/bus license yet I can’t drive a rigid lorry or Moho up to the weight of a fully loaded coach/bus.

Can’t drive a Moho over 7.5 ton because it’s built on a lorry chassis.

There are some strange things with licenses

 

[Funnymunny]

Surely driving an electric vehicle over 3.5t would be more dangerous than driving a diesel over 3.5t as the acceleration on the electric vehicle is usually greater. Having seen Amazon Prime drivers coming out of the local warehouse in electric vehicles they are driving them like dodgems weaving in and out the traffic out accelerating most cars.
If they do raise the legal weight you can drive just for electric vehicles it would be totally wrong, all vehicles should come into it

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[Nanniemate]

It'll really would cause some funsters to have palpitations those who have told kids etc that they can't borrow the MH as they don't have a C1 to drive it.

We never had a problem no excuses just said no

 

[Oldrat]

I was studying traffic legislation at the time that the 7.5 ton max was dropped.

Ee had to align UK traffic law with EU law.

EU car drivers were limited to 3.5, whereas the UK was 7.5.

Instead of bringing in a draconian cut off where folks suddenly could only drive 3.5 ton instead of the previous 7.5 - the UK did it in stages.

At first, new drivers could still drive up to 7.5, but divided into two licence groups - up to 3.5,
and 3.5 - 7.5

Two years later they dropped the heavier group for new passes and thus we became aligned.


So the point if the background is that it was only done for EU alignment so following our departure, I’d imagine that there is some form of reassessment on the books, especially as heavier electric vehicles become much more common.

 

[mitzimad]

passed my test in a maxi on wednesday bought a ford d series on saturday

 

[nicholsong]

I was studying traffic legislation at the time that the 7.5 ton max was dropped.

Ee had to align UK traffic law with EU law.

EU car drivers were limited to 3.5, whereas the UK was 7.5.

Instead of bringing in a draconian cut off where folks suddenly could only drive 3.5 ton instead of the previous 7.5 - the UK did it in stages.

At first, new drivers could still drive up to 7.5, but divided into two licence groups - up to 3.5,
and 3.5 - 7.5

Two years later they dropped the heavier group for new passes and thus we became aligned.


So the point if the background is that it was only done for EU alignment so following our departure, I’d imagine that there is some form of reassessment on the books, especially as heavier electric vehicles become much more common.

Could you please explain how your analysis fits into the various International Treaties (Vienna, Paris etc.) which preceded the EU, and to which some 160+ countries are signatories and ratifiers?

 

[Widge]

I was studying traffic legislation at the time that the 7.5 ton max was dropped.

Ee had to align UK traffic law with EU law.

EU car drivers were limited to 3.5, whereas the UK was 7.5.

Instead of bringing in a draconian cut off where folks suddenly could only drive 3.5 ton instead of the previous 7.5 - the UK did it in stages.

At first, new drivers could still drive up to 7.5, but divided into two licence groups - up to 3.5,
and 3.5 - 7.5

Two years later they dropped the heavier group for new passes and thus we became aligned.


So the point if the background is that it was only done for EU alignment so following our departure, I’d imagine that there is some form of reassessment on the books, especially as heavier electric vehicles become much more common.

One other difference if I am correct is the original licence we oldies got was 7.5t with a trailer of up to 750kg, but if you take the second part now you upgrade from 3.5t with a trailer of upto 750kg to 7.5t with a trailer, total weight not exceeding 12t.

When i converted my licence to a French one it got upgraded to the 7.5t with a trailer, total weight not exceeding 12t. Probably becouse the original category doesn't exist here, but I do have to have it accompanied by a current medical certificate which was every 5 years, but now I am over 60 every 2 years, i also gained the right to ride a motorbike of upto 125cc. Although the last time i rode any sort of motorbike was in the Arabian desert in 1986,

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[Widge]

Could you please explain how your analysis fits into the various International Treaties (Vienna, Paris etc.) which preceded the EU, and to which some 160+ countries are signatories and ratifiers?

I might be wrong, but simplified the treatys agree that each country will honour the status of the licence issued in another country, but to make things simpler the EU (with small exceptions) alligned their licences to have the same categories and look and feel,
If there is need to change due the heavier electric vehicles, this will affect all countries, and it makes sense to try and align this rather than everyone, doing there own thing.

This would have been easier if the UK was still in the EU, but as we are currently alligned, it would make sense to keep it that way if possible.

 

[Gaston aires]

Both my wife and I used D4 drivers within the last 4 weeks to keep our C1. Our local(ish) area depot was at Colchester.
The checkup took 30 mins and cost £55.
We both sent our forms to DVLA and the licences were returned within 3 weeks.
A pretty good service at reasonable cost I say.
Phil

 

[Oldrat]

Could you please explain how your analysis fits into the various International Treaties (Vienna, Paris etc.) which preceded the EU, and to which some 160+ countries are signatories and ratifiers?

I don’t know is the simple answer, I just know that our unit was (a small) part of the original DoT consultation about aligning UK and EU legislation.

Following Brexit, I would imagine that there is some kind of appetite to revert to the previous situation(?) but I suspect that the main impetus comes from the likely increase in vehicle weights from electrification.

 

[cyberyacht]

Whilst an increase over 3.5T seems attractive, it becomes less so when you take into consideration the additional autoroute tolls and restrictions on entering certain villages etc once you get south of Dover. I suppose the reduction of RFL by £100 might offset the tolls a bit but might stop you going along some roads. Knowing HMG, the RFL differential would probably disappear too.

 

[Littlewheels]

Both my wife and I used D4 drivers within the last 4 weeks to keep our C1. Our local(ish) area depot was at Colchester.
The checkup took 30 mins and cost £55.
We both sent our forms to DVLA and the licences were returned within 3 weeks.
A pretty good service at reasonable cost I say.
Phil

Until you have health issues then the 3 weeks can be multiplied many times to become months and the service plummits.

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[DDJC]

This issue was the subject of a Government consultation last summer (closed now). It goes further than what has been said on MHF so far. Essentially, the consultation asked a whole load of questions about whether it was a good idea or not, to simply add C1 to anyone with a B (or B+E) licence.

This is the live link to where the Government is on the subject. The mood music is that if the government agree with the consultation outcome (which anecdotally is mostly in favour of allowing the change), could be implemented very quickly. Possibly even by the end of this year. I know, I know, believe it when you see it.

I contributed to the consolation, saying that the C1 category should be added to B licences but only for people who have held a B cat for more then two years and are over 21. I have C1 but Mrs DDJC was post 1997 and hasn't. We could easily up-plate to 3850kg, but only I could drive it. The ferries and tunnel go by length, so no extra cost there. And peage and other tolls are mostly not clever enough to detect what you weigh. The only negative is that we have to wear the fugly french Angles Mort stickers. A tiny price in the greater scheme of things

I also wrote to my MP asking her to support this change. She agreed with me. If it sounds a sensible move to you, I would suggest you do the same.

 

[Millcourt]

DDJC ……. The ”Live Link” you refer to was last updated on 5 August 2022. I suspect that with the many changes of PM’s and Government Ministers we have experienced in recent times, this subject has gone onto the “Back Burner”.

 

[Jacasino]

Not really as it's about levelling up the payload for working vans, battery/electric are heaviers so not much use for delivering at 3500kg.

I would assume that the limit is all about road safety, whether it’s batteries, a very large diesel tank or a motorhome conversion the van still weighs more. This piece of legislation suggests it’s ok to be heavier and presumably more difficult to drive as long as you have a set of batteries on board.

 

[funflair]

I would assume that the limit is all about road safety, whether it’s batteries, a very large diesel tank or a motorhome conversion the van still weighs more. This piece of legislation suggests it’s ok to be heavier and presumably more difficult to drive as long as you have a set of batteries on board.

The battery vehicles would have to be suitably designed to run with the extra weight and I think somebody posted above about extra driver training so I don't see a problem, saying that I think HVO and synthetic fuels will come alon g that will prolong the lifespan of IC engines without burning fossil fuels = win,win.

 

[Widge]

This issue was the subject of a Government consultation last summer (closed now). It goes further than what has been said on MHF so far. Essentially, the consultation asked a whole load of questions about whether it was a good idea or not, to simply add C1 to anyone with a B (or B+E) licence.

This is the live link to where the Government is on the subject. The mood music is that if the government agree with the consultation outcome (which anecdotally is mostly in favour of allowing the change), could be implemented very quickly. Possibly even by the end of this year. I know, I know, believe it when you see it.

I contributed to the consolation, saying that the C1 category should be added to B licences but only for people who have held a B cat for more then two years and are over 21. I have C1 but Mrs DDJC was post 1997 and hasn't. We could easily up-plate to 3850kg, but only I could drive it. The ferries and tunnel go by length, so no extra cost there. And peage and other tolls are mostly not clever enough to detect what you weigh. The only negative is that we have to wear the fugly french Angles Mort stickers. A tiny price in the greater scheme of things

I also wrote to my MP asking her to support this change. She agreed with me. If it sounds a sensible move to you, I would suggest you do the same.

I am sorry, personally, I dont think it should be just added as standard, i have driven big vehicles and towed heavy trailers, and although i am pretty confident as a driver, i used to be terrible with trailers, if you have ever been in a country lane behind somebody with a caravan who hasn't an inkling about reversing it you would agree. Not everyone needs the other categories on there licence so it should be an addition.

I have no problem with it being a simplified process, keeping the cost to a minimum, etc, but i do think you should be able to show some compitance, before being let loose, especially with trailers and caravans.

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[DDJC]

DDJC ……. The ”Live Link” you refer to was last updated on 5 August 2022. I suspect that with the many changes of PM’s and Government Ministers we have experienced in recent times, this subject has gone onto the “Back Burner”.

They haven't updated the updated date! If you read the text, it says that the consultation results are being analysed, therefore it was last updated after the consultation had closed, i.e. after October.

 

[DDJC]

I am sorry, personally, I dont think it should be just added as standard, i have driven big vehicles and towed heavy trailers, and although i am pretty confident as a driver, i used to be terrible with trailers, if you have ever been in a country lane behind somebody with a caravan who hasn't an inkling about reversing it you would agree. Not everyone needs the other categories on there licence so it should be an addition.

I have no problem with it being a simplified process, keeping the cost to a minimum, etc, but i do think you should be able to show some compitance, before being let loose, especially with trailers and caravans.

I have had HGV licence too, and the clanky old Bedfords and Dafs I used to drive were a far cry from the vehicles available today. Better engines, brakes, steering and suspension.

I want it to go ahead, for a purely selfish reason. Mrs DDJC drives our 3500kg motorhome legally and competently. We would benefit from going to 3850, but then she couldn't drive it. She will never drive a 7500kg truck, nor I suspect, any motorhome over 7.5m. For us this would be a real benefit, but I do get the argument that a 21 year with two years experience of driving a Fiesta, maybe shouldn't be automatically leaping behind a 7500kg truck with 750kg trailer.

Some sort of CBT perhaps? Or a Motorhome only increase to say 4500kg, 8m and single rear axle? Either would be sensible.

 

[Squaddie]

Americans can drive what they call RVs ( No Age Limit I,m told) which we could fit most of our standard Motorhomes into, It is our over zealous Governments that keep us in the Dark ages as far as Driving vehicles of certain weights, I learned to drive in a Articulated AEC Mandator aged 14, Moving trailers around the Transport Yard , I also learned how to rope and sheet a load, Properly, I could also change points and set them and gap plugs , at 21 Was fiddled out of my Grandad rights Licence so took the HGV test and passed , at 70 had to give up my HGV licence even though Im still competent, I am Now restricted to 3500 kg, |Yet the Office wallers who sit in Westminster can dictate what I can and cannot drive ,Based on their own assumptions of what they are capable of, It is passed the time when things should be updated ,were short of HGV drivers, would a change in the Vehicle licencing law not help solve this situation, also that change would give a boost to the Motorhome and Campervan Industry, after all MOST people would not drive anything they could not handle .

 

[Freo]

Until you have health issues then the 3 weeks can be multiplied many times to become months and the service plummits.

Totally agree on this. I had my D4D test 23rd Feb last year. Docs posted to DVLA the same day and were signed for the following day as being received by them. I eventually received their decision, and my new licence, in early November. Any medical issues, then expect a looooong delay.

 

[Widge]

Americans can drive what they call RVs ( No Age Limit I,m told) which we could fit most of our standard Motorhomes into, It is our over zealous Governments that keep us in the Dark ages as far as Driving vehicles of certain weights, I learned to drive in a Articulated AEC Mandator aged 14, Moving trailers around the Transport Yard , I also learned how to rope and sheet a load, Properly, I could also change points and set them and gap plugs , at 21 Was fiddled out of my Grandad rights Licence so took the HGV test and passed , at 70 had to give up my HGV licence even though Im still competent, I am Now restricted to 3500 kg, |Yet the Office wallers who sit in Westminster can dictate what I can and cannot drive ,Based on their own assumptions of what they are capable of, It is passed the time when things should be updated ,were short of HGV drivers, would a change in the Vehicle licencing law not help solve this situation, also that change would give a boost to the Motorhome and Campervan Industry, after all MOST people would not drive anything they could not handle .

Sorry MOST sensible experienced people would not drive anything they could not handle, from the last time I was in the UK there appeared to be a lot of people that shouldn't even be alowed out in cars, let alone anything bigger

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[Badknee]

I was studying traffic legislation at the time that the 7.5 ton max was dropped.

Ee had to align UK traffic law with EU law.

EU car drivers were limited to 3.5, whereas the UK was 7.5.

Instead of bringing in a draconian cut off where folks suddenly could only drive 3.5 ton instead of the previous 7.5 - the UK did it in stages.

At first, new drivers could still drive up to 7.5, but divided into two licence groups - up to 3.5,
and 3.5 - 7.5

Two years later they dropped the heavier group for new passes and thus we became aligned.


So the point if the background is that it was only done for EU alignment so following our departure, I’d imagine that there is some form of reassessment on the books, especially as heavier electric vehicles become much more common.

I’m hoping it’s in one of the hundreds of eu laws foisted on us that are going to be binned