Rumours about dropping C1 test

[Googlebot]

I keep hearing rumours about C1 being dropped from the licence requirement.

This would mean Lucy can also drive up to 7.5t so we can uprate our van so that we aren’t struggling all the time to stay under the legal limits.

This in my view is great news for those of us with families who always struggle with weight.

Has anyone heard anything concrete or have any more information about the change?

I also need to find someone who can possibly do the uprating.

 

[Widge]

I’m hoping it’s in one of the hundreds of eu laws foisted on us that are going to be binned

Yes it was probably one of the thousand or so EU laws the people are so keen to get rid of that was originaly proposed by the UK government.

 

[2x2camper]

I’m hoping it’s in one of the hundreds of eu laws foisted on us that are going to be binned

As we are not in the EU how can we have any eu law?

 

[Thornebt]

Whilst an increase over 3.5T seems attractive, it becomes less so when you take into consideration the additional autoroute tolls and restrictions on entering certain villages etc once you get south of Dover. I suppose the reduction of RFL by £100 might offset the tolls a bit but might stop you going along some roads. Knowing HMG, the RFL differential would probably disappear too.

I'm going to France and probably Spain around October time. Are the road tolls much dearer for over 3.5T? What might it cost in road tolls for my 4T van to get to the Spanish border taking an 'average' route. I'm guessing it's much cheaper than getting a ferry direct to Spain?

 

[nicholsong]

As we are not in the EU how can we have any eu law?

When UK was in the EU any EU Directive had to be translated into UK Domestic law and those UK laws still exist, but may be appealed if Parliament wishes, although those affecting trade into EU may be retained.

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[cyberyacht]

Don't use toll roads, so no idea. Via Michelin will give the tolls for any route, presumably at the Category 2 if you tick the "caravan" box. I can't remember the differential for the jump to the next category. I think it might be double.

 

[nicholsong]

I'm going to France and probably Spain around October time. Are the road tolls much dearer for over 3.5T? What might it cost in road tolls for my 4T van to get to the Spanish border taking an 'average' route. I'm guessing it's much cheaper than getting a ferry direct to Spain?

AFAIK tolls are based on dimensions and axles not weight.

 

[2x2camper]

When UK was in the EU any EU Directive had to be translated into UK Domestic law and those UK laws still exist, but may be appealed if Parliament wishes, although those affecting trade into EU may be retained.

So uk rather than eu laws

 

[The Wino]

I am sorry, personally, I dont think it should be just added as standard, i have driven big vehicles and towed heavy trailers, and although i am pretty confident as a driver, i used to be terrible with trailers, if you have ever been in a country lane behind somebody with a caravan who hasn't an inkling about reversing it you would agree. Not everyone needs the other categories on there licence so it should be an addition.

I have no problem with it being a simplified process, keeping the cost to a minimum, etc, but i do think you should be able to show some compitance, before being let loose, especially with trailers and caravans.

It could be sensible that the license category is frozen until someone does a course similar to CBT but on towing.

 

[Widge]

I'm going to France and probably Spain around October time. Are the road tolls much dearer for over 3.5T? What might it cost in road tolls for my 4T van to get to the Spanish border taking an 'average' route. I'm guessing it's much cheaper than getting a ferry direct to Spain?

A lot of the tolls have been removed in Spain, very little when we traveled down the east coast last year.

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[Lenny HB]

AFAIK tolls are based on dimensions and axles not weight.

Nope, under 3.5t Class 2 over 3.5t Class 3 but it is rarely enforced if you only have two axles and are under 3m high.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Government Consultation ended in October - so we'll have to wait & see.

Some objections though
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1703914/driving-law-licence-rules-lorries-concerns

 

[Lenny HB]

Whilst an increase over 3.5T seems attractive, it becomes less so when you take into consideration the additional autoroute tolls and restrictions on entering certain villages etc once you get south of Dover. I suppose the reduction of RFL by £100 might offset the tolls a bit but might stop you going along some roads. Knowing HMG, the RFL differential would probably disappear too.

Unless you have a huge van it won't really affect you particularly in France. In France they just accept Motorhomes are 3.5t unless like I said they are huge.

 

[Badknee]

AFAIK tolls are based on dimensions and axles not weight.

They are based on height. Our Hobby was 5250kgs tag axle but a lowline at 2.9mtrs. Class 2 every time without asking.

 

[Badknee]

I watched a couple on tv hiring a moho that looked like a 3500kg one. They loaded it to the gunnels with so much stuff I couldn’t believe. Then set off and picked a couple with another load of gear. Boxes and boxes, bags and bags and four bikes.

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[Lenny HB]

They are based on height. Our Hobby was 5250kgs tag axle but a lowline at 2.9mtrs. Class 2 every time without asking.

Nope, you were just lucky.
Under 3.5t class 2, over 3.5t class 3, over 3m high class 3, more than 2 axles class 3.

 

[Lenny HB]

I watched a couple on tv hiring a moho that looked like a 3500kg one. They loaded it to the gunnels with so much stuff I couldn’t believe. Then set off and picked a couple with another load of gear. Boxes and boxes, bags and bags and four bikes.

Had a French hire van pull up next to us on an Aire 3.5t, 4 adults, 4 bikes on the back, lockers rammed with gear including a big BBQ and gas cylinder.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Not a motorhome but ...

 

[Lofty1]

It's been spoken about for some time. All I can say is that those of us with grandfather rights didn't go around crashing into things because we were "out of our depth". In fact my first 5 driving lessons were in a Bedford 4 Tonner (MJ series), then a 1 ton Landrover, then 110 and 90 Landrover before doing my test in a Mini Metro. A week later I was driving a 1 Ton LR pulling a trailer with a missile launcher on the back valued at c£10-15m in todays money.

Sprog, some of us had Rl,s and even Ql,s

 

[Lenny HB]

Not a motorhome but ...

Proves they do stop and weigh people.

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[DDJC]

Government Consultation ended in October - so we'll have to wait & see.

Some objections though
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1703914/driving-law-licence-rules-lorries-concerns

Those objections are valid, but are entirely fixable by requiring two years driving experience, a CBT and being over 21 years old. So unlike a UK newspaper to provide a one-dimensional opinion based on faux -outrage ...

 

[Badknee]

Nope, you were just lucky.
Under 3.5t class 2, over 3.5t class 3, over 3m high class 3, more than 2 axles class 3.

No not lucky at all Lenny, it happened too many times at too many toll booths to be so.

 

[Widge]

Proves they do stop and weigh people.

There are several company's who sell and install sensor systems in the road on main roads and motorways that can give fairly accurate weight readings including individual axle and left-right weights at 60mph, certainly accurate enough for police to pull a vehicle in and weigh it properly.

 

[enark]

It'll really would cause some funsters to have palpitations those who have told kids etc that they can't borrow the MH as they don't have a C1 to drive it.

That’s one of the reasons we updated ours……

 

[Badknee]

There are several company's who sell and install sensor systems in the road on main roads and motorways that can give fairly accurate weight readings including individual axle and left-right weights at 60mph, certainly accurate enough for police to pull a vehicle in and weigh it properly.

Yes saw that in action the last time I did my CPC. Overweight axle @56mph

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[enark]

But didn’t the Army/Airforce make you drive them across empty fields with only sheep to worry about?

no mostly around Hull…

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

I'm going to France and probably Spain around October time. Are the road tolls much dearer for over 3.5T? What might it cost in road tolls for my 4T van to get to the Spanish border taking an 'average' route. I'm guessing it's much cheaper than getting a ferry direct to Spain?

We were 3850kg but under 3m high so always went through as class2. However on the one occasion that the machine flagged us up as class3 after a quick press of the intercom button and I said "camping car" it was changed to class2.

 

[DDJC]

Yes it was probably one of the thousand or so EU laws the people are so keen to get rid of that was originaly proposed by the UK government.

To avoid this thread degenerating into a Br~~~~ thread, this is easy to clear up, albeit needing a bit of a read-through to fully get it.

1. Prior to 1 Jan 1997, if you passed your car test (cat B), you would automatically also acquire cats BE, C1, C1E, D1 and D1E. I drove large coaches, four ton trucks and other heavies on a car licence (not for hire or rewards)

2. The decision taken from 1 January 1997, was to remove the automatic rights to be awarded categories BE, C1, C1E, D1 and D1E. These became only awardable following the passing of a driving test, for EACH category. This decision was made entirely by the UK Government, but the REASON why it was changed was because the EU asked UK to conform to the licence category awards in use across the EU. It was never a manifesto issue, just that UK was trying to be a good supportive member of the new European club.

3. So, now that we have left the EU, the UK no longer needs to conform to the EU licence codes (which not all EU member states follow anyway ). There is nothing to stop us reverting to the driving rules that existed before the EU was formed pre 1997.

4. Whether we should or shouldn't, is the matter being discussed following the consultation, and that discussion is based solely on the merits and disadvantages of taking such an action; without the political oversight of the EU.

5. A question that has been raised is whether any new award of UK driving codes will be accepted in the EU. The answer is yes, because UK drivers already are, by anyone who passed pre-1997. It is now entirely the UK's business how we determine whether people can drive different classes of vehicles. In Egypt for example, you pass the test by driving forwards and backwards 6 metres, without crashing, and then by answering ten theory questions. And the Egyptian licence is accepted in the UK and EU for 12 months!

6. Further proof that UK can unilaterally change how we award licences categories was on 16th December 2021, where the government reversed the rules regarding licence category BE, which saw all drivers who hold a category B licence, receive the additional category BE entitlement automatically, without the need to take a separate BE test. This really helps big van tuggers, but does nowt for us chuggers.


So, the law WAS made by UK but BECAUSE the EU asked us to. Now we have left the EU, there is nothing to stop us reverting to pre-1997 rules.
And I really hope we do.

 

[2x2camper]

To avoid this thread degenerating into a Br~~~~ thread, this is easy to clear up, albeit needing a bit of a read-through to fully get it.

1. Prior to 1 Jan 1997, if you passed your car test (cat B), you would automatically also acquire cats BE, C1, C1E, D1 and D1E. I drove large coaches, four ton trucks and other heavies on a car licence (not for hire or rewards)

2. The decision taken from 1 January 1997, was to remove the automatic rights to be awarded categories BE, C1, C1E, D1 and D1E. These became only awardable following the passing of a driving test, for EACH category. This decision was made entirely by the UK Government, but the REASON why it was changed was because the EU asked UK to conform to the licence category awards in use across the EU. It was never a manifesto issue, just that UK was trying to be a good supportive member of the new European club.

3. So, now that we have left the EU, the UK no longer needs to conform to the EU licence codes (which not all EU member states follow anyway ). There is nothing to stop us reverting to the driving rules that existed before the EU was formed pre 1997.

4. Whether we should or shouldn't, is the matter being discussed following the consultation, and that discussion is based solely on the merits and disadvantages of taking such an action; without the political oversight of the EU.

5. A question that has been raised is whether any new award of UK driving codes will be accepted in the EU. The answer is yes, because UK drivers already are, by anyone who passed pre-1997. It is now entirely the UK's business how we determine whether people can drive different classes of vehicles. In Egypt for example, you pass the test by driving forwards and backwards 6 metres, without crashing, and then by answering ten theory questions. And the Egyptian licence is accepted in the UK and EU for 12 months!

6. Further proof that UK can unilaterally change how we award licences categories was on 16th December 2021, where the government reversed the rules regarding licence category BE, which saw all drivers who hold a category B licence, receive the additional category BE entitlement automatically, without the need to take a separate BE test. This really helps big van tuggers, but does nowt for us chuggers.


So, the law WAS made by UK but BECAUSE the EU asked us to. Now we have left the EU, there is nothing to stop us reverting to pre-1997 rules.
And I really hope we do.

There is no need to change the law there is a legitimate way to upgrade your licence by passing test. The amount of traffic on the roads today is way more than when the original rules were written. What we need is modern licence arrangements not harping back to days when things were completely different.

 

[Googlebot]

There is no need to change the law there is a legitimate way to upgrade your licence by passing test. The amount of traffic on the roads today is way more than when the original rules were written. What we need is modern licence arrangements not harping back to days when things were completely different.

The problem being it makes not one jot of difference in our case.

The Motorhome is the same one we drive all the time, just changed by a few 100kg to carry more stuff. There is no discernible difference when driving it heavier and it handles the same, the only change is a paper one.

The system is ridiculous, I can take an Ambulance, stick the blue lights on, claim exemptions from speed limits, red lights, keep left signs. I then get in exactly the same size Minibus and because I don’t have D1 I can’t drive it at all.

The roads didn’t suddenly become much safer when the licensing changed in 1997, we all just paid more for ridiculous requirements.

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[DDJC]

There is no need to change the law there is a legitimate way to upgrade your licence by passing test. The amount of traffic on the roads today is way more than when the original rules were written. What we need is modern licence arrangements not harping back to days when things were completely different.

Don't agree. The passing of multiple tests is just a money maker for too many including the government.
If you can drive a 3500kg motorhome, you can drive a 4200kg motorhome of the same length.

The only reason there is more traffic on the roads is because we don't have enough roads. Also, apparently the train drivers are currently all on strike. What sort of recommendation is it then to propone trains over road transport? Bonkers.