Road Tax

[sfrain145]

Hi guys I wanted to start a threat to see the thoughts on this government and how they are looking after us.
We have a little Citroen c1. With zero road tax. And it looks like it’s going up to £195 give or take a year from April.
We have a motorhome and it’s currently £135 per year but it seems as it’s less than three years old and over £40k in values will be hit with the £600 per year tax and then the road tax is going to £105 I think so if my sums are right we are going from £135 per year for both to £1000 a year. Not a bad way of looking after the normal person paying into this system for over 40years. Oh and the electric car we lease will go from zero tax to £195 but that’s not in our budget.

 

[David and Sally]

Still doesn't justify £415 for a car that did a few hundred miles in a year.

I sort of agree, but the roads still have to be there irrespective of how often you use them.

 

[Jonno1103]

Well, the majority of the country voted for them (not me!) so suck it up and deal with it.
They're not lying when they said we won't increase income tax, they'll just increase the tax on everything else. We'll be taxed on the tax we pay next.

 

[Orion]

I have a couple of older motorcycles which come into the "historic" tax class. I do not pay any tax for this class, but the daft thing is that every year I get a reminder from the DVLA and then have to go through the motions of re-taxing the bikes. It's a good old government paperwork for paperwork exercise..

Same here but with a Honda quad which is on an ‘Agricultural Registration’, so unlimited road use if in conjunction with that purpose and no MOT required. Must go through the motions every year but it’s a zero cost RFL.

 

[David and Sally]

Well, the majority of the country voted for them (not me!) so suck it up and deal with it.
They're not lying when they said we won't increase income tax, they'll just increase the tax on everything else. We'll be taxed on the tax we pay next.

But IIRC they are extending the earnings limit for income tax. That is a tax increase by another name. ( on working people).

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[VXman]

I sort of agree, but the roads still have to be there irrespective of how often you use them.

hmm...so a argument for a flat charge - on every citizen - like a poll tax. In fact scrap VED and everyone pays whether you use a road or not. That would cover the cyclist argument, and after all even non car owners use the road when they are crossing it!

 

[10tenmen]

Actually it looks like it’s here https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-vehicle-excise-duty-expensive-car-supplement (sorry if already posted).
Do we suspect MHs will be included?

As far as I can see it’s all about cars I’m sure it will become clearer nearer the date.

 

[Rapido925M]

IMO NO you’re not reading this correctly!
The previous government froze the tax-free limit on earnings until 2028. Reeves stated that she would unfreeze them from 2029. By all means blame the government for raising taxes but try to blame the right one

Admittedly, in Opposition the Labour Party objected to them being frozen BUT, as you will see, being in Opposition means that you can more or less say what you want . I suspect another party will say all sorts of things over the next few years

 

[Puddleduck]

Mostly covered by fuel taxes

But not for EVs of course.

We'll be taxed on the tax we pay next.

You already are if you use petrol or diesel as VAT is levied on top of fuel duty.

 

[WESTY66]

But not for EVs of course.

You already are if you use petrol or diesel as VAT is levied on top of fuel duty.

That you’ve just paid for with your TAXED earnings

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[Saucer]

Actually it looks like it’s here https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-vehicle-excise-duty-expensive-car-supplement (sorry if already posted).
Do we suspect MHs will be included?

Actually this https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-excise-duty-rates-for-cars-from-1-april-2025 is the link I should have used

 

[The Wino]

When people go on about tax there's always the question. If we cut tax given we're already running a huge deficit what services do you want cut ( not bits and bobs significant billions worth). A lot of our defecit is now interest on what we lived beyond our means on before. I can only think we are a nation who likes to live on the never never

 

[Saucer]

Do you have any further detail or links on this? I have a new van coming in Spring and wondering how much post April registration is going to affect us.

It looks like it won’t apply to motorhome so I’ll duck out of the rest of the discussion which has gone off in a different direction.

 

[Puddleduck]

That you’ve just paid for with your TAXED earnings

Very true.

 

[Reallyretired]

Well, the majority of the country voted for them (not me!) so suck it up and deal with it.
They're not lying when they said we won't increase income tax, they'll just increase the tax on everything else. We'll be taxed on the tax we pay next.

Is 30 odd percent of votes cast a majority now? Only about 1 in 5 eligible voters voted Labour.
It's just our bizarre electoral system that gave them a huge majority of MPs.

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[Carpmart]

When people go on about tax there's always the question. If we cut tax given we're already running a huge deficit what services do you want cut ( not bits and bobs significant billions worth). A lot of our defecit is now interest on what we lived beyond our means on before. I can only think we are a nation who likes to live on the never never

I’m fine with paying for public services through taxation. I’m even fine with paying more tax. I’m a long way off what is happening at the moment. They need to sort the quality of the public services out first before you waste more of my taxed income into bureaucratic, poorly administered, wasteful and not fit for purpose public services. Sort them out and then ask for more and I shall oblige.

 

[The Wino]

I’m fine with paying for public services through taxation. I’m even fine with paying more tax. I’m a long way off what is happening at the moment. They need to sort the quality of the public services out first before you waste more of my taxed income into bureaucratic, poorly administered, wasteful and not fit for purpose public services. Sort them out and then ask for more and I shall oblige.

Often said by people who don't like paying tax. As the previous government were supposed to be very keen on cutting waste why do you think there's still a lot? What percentage of public spending would you guess as being wasted?

 

[Carpmart]

Often said by people who don't like paying tax. As the previous government were supposed to be very keen on cutting waste why do you think there's still a lot? What percentage of public spending would you guess as being wasted?

I think there is a lot of waste because no one has ever done anything meaningful to address process, people and outcomes in ways that can quickly effect quality reform.

It’s all about chucking money at problems as opposed to RCA why things are not working.

 

[Rapido925M]

As has been said, the Tories spent 14y cutting back on public spending and insisting that efficiency savings would make things better. Ask yourself how successful that was.

Then consider why the Labour government shouldn’t get any of your money because they haven’t improved things in 4 months.

 

[The Wino]

I think there is a lot of waste because no one has ever done anything meaningful to address process, people and outcomes in ways that can quickly effect quality reform.

It’s all about chucking money at problems as opposed to RCA why things are not working.

Because we over an average of the past 14 years haven't chucked money at it. When COVID arrived our services were in dire condition we had less hospital beds than most comparible countries worse care of the elderly a homeless crisis etc etc. We then tried short term fixes with no planning.

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[PaulW2]

Because we over an average of the past 14 years haven't chucked money at it. When COVID arrived our services were in dire condition we had less hospital beds than most comparible countries worse care of the elderly a homeless crisis etc etc. We then tried short term fixes with no planning.

There are a few ways of trying to understand it.

First, there will always be some waste in any enterprise. Most businesses that fail do so due to cash flow issues. Saying that cash flow will be restricted until waste is eliminated is to guarantee failure.

Second, over more than a decade government has restricted cash flow and has carried on ad nauseam about waste. The result has been that public services have become increasingly threadbare.

Third, this is a well-recognised and documented political strategy. Claim that things are inefficient, restrict funding until things "improve"; they never do and so more is privatised while the public core withers. It's a playbook.

Fourth, a good comparative view is to look at the percentage of GDP taken in taxes in different countries. The UK's is relatively low.

 

[The Wino]

There are a few ways of trying to understand it.

First, there will always be some waste in any enterprise. Most businesses that fail do so due to cash flow issues. Saying that cash flow will be restricted until waste is eliminated is to guarantee failure.

Second, over more than a decade government has restricted cash flow and has carried on ad nauseam about waste. The result has been that public services have become increasingly threadbare.

Third, this is a well-recognised and documented political strategy. Claim that things are inefficient, restrict funding until things "improve"; they never do and so more is privatised while the public core withers. It's a playbook.

Fourth, a good comparative view is to look at the percentage of GDP taken in taxes in different countries. The UK's is relatively low.

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Worth looking at the top spending countries largely the ones people would like the NHS to emulate also of course a lot of them have a contribution from the patient effectively making the tax take a lot higher. You can't help but think that the promised better services by cutting waste is for the guillable just like some other promises people were sold before.

 

[PaulW2]

Worth looking at the top spending countries largely the ones people would like the NHS to emulate also of course a lot of them have a contribution from the patient effectively making the tax take a lot higher. You can't help but think that the promised better services by cutting waste is for the guillable just like some other promises people were sold before.

It's a cultural trope. All sides have them, but in this case it's sometimes worth looking at the 'false consciousness' of it, the contradictory and incompatible claims and requirements.

Low tax but an efficient, well-funded NHS. Much lower legal immigration, and restricted medical training places, and lower salaries, but enough nurses and doctors. Or at least enough medical staff. Physician's Associates, say. (Maybe we can get people to think they are qualified doctors?)

Cheap drugs in spite of trade barriers. Maybe we can invade the Netherlands?

 

[The Wino]

It's a cultural trope. All sides have them, but in this case it's sometimes worth looking at the 'false consciousness' of it, the contradictory and incompatible claims and requirements.

Low tax but an efficient, well-funded NHS. Much lower legal immigration, and restricted medical training places, and lower salaries, but enough nurses and doctors. Or at least enough medical staff. Physician's Associates, say. (Maybe we can get people to think they are qualified doctors?)

Cheap drugs in spite of trade barriers. Maybe we can invade the Netherlands?

Also at the moment negociate hard on drugs prices and then save even more because you can't get them

 

[DC4JC]

The NHS is a basically an unstainable money pit.
The largest employer in Europe and currently devouring circa 12% of the revenue the Government raises at over £180 billion.
With the rising population, unless we can seriously reform it and vastly improve productivity, it will continue to drain the countries finances at the expense of everything else.
My view is that it needs remodelling with some additional contribution to certain elements of treatment/ services.

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[The Wino]

The NHS is a basically an unstainable money pit.
The largest employer in Europe and currently devouring circa 12% of the revenue the Government raises at over £180 billion.
With the rising population, unless we can seriously reform it and vastly improve productivity, it will continue to drain the countries finances at the expense of everything else.
My view is that it needs remodelling with some additional contribution to certain elements of treatment/ services.

So far not one person has said which country they want to model it on which would you go for?

 

[Carpmart]

So far not one person has said which country they want to model it on which would you go for?

Norway, Singapore, Japan - all do a much better job than us with their world leading healthcare systems…

The NHS is just not fit for purpose now… it needs a bimodal operating approach so it can still deliver a service (of sorts) whilst it sorts itself out!

 

[Rapido925M]

Tax level in Norway has been between 40-45% since 1970
Singapore tax is low but doesn’t cover healthcare, welfare nor pensions

So which model are you advocating and how would you move to it?

 

[georgio]

I couldn't live here without some access to private transport as no public transport and 7 miles to a shop. We do own our own house but it has become local authority policy to house people in more rural areas as part of their rural repopulation initiative plus a shortage of rental property in towns.

So petrol or diesel or electric needed for vehicles plus petrol or diesel for the generator when the electric fails in the winter - petrol / diesel are absolute necessities here.

Good afternoon,

(When the electric fails in the winter. )
Not a good sign when we are supposed to be going all electric is it?

 

[Langtoftlad]

So far not one person has said which country they want to model it on which would you go for?

Really ?
Think I've previously mentioned that I'm quite a fan of the Australian Medicare system.
Private commercial competitive providers, pay at point of use from chosen preferred supplier and claim up to 100% back.

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[Carpmart]

Tax level in Norway has been between 40-45% since 1970
Singapore tax is low but doesn’t cover healthcare, welfare nor pensions

So which model are you advocating and how would you move to it?

I’d advocate any that isn’t what we are doing at the moment… In case you hadn’t noticed, it ain’t working!!!