Propane Calor Gas Refils?

[StitchUp]

We use two 6Kg (Orange) Calor gas bottles in our van. To refill locally costs £37, that is swap empty for full.

I notice on eBay there are these:

I'm unsure if it's easy to find refil stations - do you do it yourself - I'm told it's a lot cheaper or is it a no go?

The eBay fitting is circa £30

Any advice/comments?

Thanks

 

[Minxy]

You read the instructions. View attachment 784713

And how does that work if the bottle is not completely empty and don’t know how much in it

The label indicates how many litres of gas to put in related to the size of the cylinder, which works out to 80 %

... and if not totally empty or has cr@p in the bottom of the cylinder thus reducing the actual internal capacity ... so when someone thinks they're being 'clever' by only putting in a max of 80% in reality it's 90% ... blow torch time!

So you get your nice accurate scales out place bottle on them then add heavy filler and you think you can get accurate weight

Once gun is on &settled you reset tare to zero. Same way as I weigh refrigerant into systems.

You may get away with that in Spain but not in the UK ... I think most of Spain's LPG outlets would object too.

 

[tonyidle]

I don't fill my own cylinders because I have two out-of-date Alugas. However if someone, JJ for example, has researched the process, understands the pitfalls, and then chooses to do so I can't see a problem. All the supposed inaccuracies, heavy ends, weight of filler gun, etc, are easily accounted for or are too small to be relecvant. Expertise doesn't only rest with experts and someone who takes care of him or herself rather than relying on the conscientiousness of someone else should be encouraged.

 

[Mikeyv60]

... and if not totally empty or has cr@p in the bottom of the cylinder thus reducing the actual internal capacity ... so when someone thinks they're being 'clever' by only putting in a max of 80% in reality it's 90% ... blow torch time!

The litreage guide is actually a couple of lts short of 80 %., i believe this allows for a bit of rubbish in the cylinder

 

[Pausim]

Expertise doesn't only rest with experts

Possibly true but it certainly doesn’t rest with all the wider public who read these posts and think “I could do that” without having the slightest clue about the dangers. If these people with expertise who are not experts (which is probably a contradiction) just stayed quiet about it and quietly did their own thing none of us would know or be complaining. Sadly some don’t and feel obliged to share their practice with others and then you end up with someone who doesn't know any better setting fire to themselves, their motorhome and part of a Morrisons forecourt. If they could just stop sharing their cleverness with others like me who are less clever and might blow themselves up then the problem should go away.

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[bigtree]

... and if not totally empty or has cr@p in the bottom of the cylinder thus reducing the actual internal capacity ... so when someone thinks they're being 'clever' by only putting in a max of 80% in reality it's 90% ... blow torch time!



You may get away with that in Spain but not in the UK ... I think most of Spain's LPG outlets would object too.

Denote crap please ?

 

[TheBig1]

Sorry I didn't bother to read all 5 pages in full. It has been said that refilling cylinders without the cut off valve is extremely dangerous and stupid. Calor purge cylinders before refilling an exact amount. Their pumps have multiple safety features to allow it. A brass screw in adaptor has no protection. The risk of fire or explosion as filling is obvious, but it is dangerous beyond this. Liquid LPG boils at ambient temperature and expands to a gas. Get even a splash of this liquid on you and it will freeze burn your flesh, right to the bone. It happened to one of the members here a few years ago and he shared the photos (minus 230 degrees rings a bell)

Then the problem if the cylinder is overfilled, there is no expansion room and liquid LPG can be forced out through the regulator and into the low pressure pipework. if that gets to your fridge or a lit ring on the hob it would not be a great day for your van

Not a gamble worth taking

 

[Basildog]

I don't fill my own cylinders because I have two out-of-date Alugas. However if someone, JJ for example, has researched the process, understands the pitfalls, and then chooses to do so I can't see a problem. All the supposed inaccuracies, heavy ends, weight of filler gun, etc, are easily accounted for or are too small to be relecvant. Expertise doesn't only rest with experts and someone who takes care of him or herself rather than relying on the conscientiousness of someone else should be encouraged.

Not sure why you feel the need to state publicly that your cylinders are now out of test / date ?
To be perfectly honest with you we get regular phone calls and visitors to our workshop who have every reason why they can do as they please and absolutely none of of the industry guidelines or practices apply to them .
I don’t have any patience for any of it any more and as soon as I hear the first word that comes close to them not listening to our advice or thinking about trying to be clever it results in me either walking away or telling them to leave our premises,
Just to make it perfectly clear if we know your cylinders or tank are out of date / certification then we should not fill your installation as we are deemed by law to be the filler and therefore responsible, your few pence profit on a refill isn’t worth the possible repercussions.
I may actually keep our LPG pump turned off and personally inspect every single customer’s system in future as I am actually now sick of this

 

[Mikeyv60]

Sorry I didn't bother to read all 5 pages in full. It has been said that refilling cylinders without the cut off valve is extremely dangerous and stupid. Calor purge cylinders before refilling an exact amount. Their pumps have multiple safety features to allow it. A brass screw in adaptor has no protection. The risk of fire or explosion as filling is obvious, but it is dangerous beyond this. Liquid LPG boils at ambient temperature and expands to a gas. Get even a splash of this liquid on you and it will freeze burn your flesh, right to the bone. It happened to one of the members here a few years ago and he shared the photos (minus 230 degrees rings a bell)

Then the problem if the cylinder is overfilled, there is no expansion room and liquid LPG can be forced out through the regulator and into the low pressure pipework. if that gets to your fridge or a lit ring on the hob it would not be a great day for your van

Not a gamble worth taking

Yes liquid lpg will freeze burn your skin , but a splash will not freeze to the bone., just the surface layers of your skin, still bad , but not like the alien movie.

 

[Shrimp]

We have 2 Gaslow 11kg bottles, one was empty other one was fairly low filled up the other day, cost £22.12

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[plumbob]

All this talk of safety and non safety if you can get away with saving a few quid. I spent 40 years in the gas industry and have seen some disastrous installations and practice. One poor family some 30 years ago locally were getting free energy for some 5/6 years by storing calor gas bottles in the garage (Illegally must be stored outside). The gentleman delivered for calor gas. The outcome one morning wife went to make breakfast and the husband wife and two children killed and house demolished . He thought he knew better than to comply with regulations because he was saving money
DONT PLAY WITH GAS CALOR OR NATURAL ITS NOT WORTH IT
Its not only what damage you do to yourself think of others

 

[Fragle]

Not sure why you feel the need to state publicly that your cylinders are now out of test / date ?
To be perfectly honest with you we get regular phone calls and visitors to our workshop who have every reason why they can do as they please and absolutely none of of the industry guidelines or practices apply to them .
I don’t have any patience for any of it any more and as soon as I hear the first word that comes close to them not listening to our advice or thinking about trying to be clever it results in me either walking away or telling them to leave our premises,
Just to make it perfectly clear if we know your cylinders or tank are out of date / certification then we should not fill your installation as we are deemed by law to be the filler and therefore responsible, your few pence profit on a refill isn’t worth the possible repercussions.
I may actually keep our LPG pump turned off and personally inspect every single customer’s system in future as I am actually now sick of this

I’m with you.

I get fed up of this idiotic, look how clever I am Billy big bo****ks attitude to lpg.

Encouraging people to do this themselves to save a few pence. I’ve been doing it for years no problem. Don’t listen to the Calor police.

I joined this forum to learn about motor-homing. I’ve saved on everything from campsites to tax refunds. It has saved me a fortune with the information I have gained. Gaslow/Gas it provides the biggest ongoing savings. It’s safe and legal.

Filling a Calor bottle is dangerous, against the law and just downright stupid.

Yet some still hit the like button. Maybe Jim could add a stupid and dangerous button. Or even remove posts that encourages the breaking of the law or dangerous acts.
I would prefer it to be self regulated and if you are doing something like that then don’t post it. It’s not useful information and not clever. Although looking at some comments I do wonder what people are thinking.

As I currently work in the lpg industry albeit seasonal. I feel like Basildog at least some responsibility to inform how stupid the filling of non refillable cylinders is.
Also seeing how many people still seem to like and think it’s ok also makes me question how far we take the information given

 

[Basildog]

All this talk of safety and non safety if you can get away with saving a few quid. I spent 40 years in the gas industry and have seen some disastrous installations and practice. One poor family some 30 years ago locally were getting free energy for some 5/6 years by storing calor gas bottles in the garage (Illegally must be stored outside). The gentleman delivered for calor gas. The outcome one morning wife went to make breakfast and the husband wife and two children killed and house demolished . He thought he knew better than to comply with regulations because he was saving money
DONT PLAY WITH GAS CALOR OR NATURAL ITS NOT WORTH IT
Its not only what damage you do to yourself think of others

We had a customer in this week boasting how he uses a Safefill refillable LPG cylinder in his cabinet heater in his house
You should NEVER store or use Propane cylinders indoors only ever Butane.
His response was “I can’t see a problem “

 

[tonyidle]

Possibly true but it certainly doesn’t rest with all the wider public who read these posts and think “I could do that” without having the slightest clue about the dangers. If these people with expertise who are not experts (which is probably a contradiction) just stayed quiet about it and quietly did their own thing none of us would know or be complaining. Sadly some don’t and feel obliged to share their practice with others and then you end up with someone who doesn't know any better setting fire to themselves, their motorhome and part of a Morrisons forecourt. If they could just stop sharing their cleverness with others like me who are less clever and might blow themselves up then the problem should go away.

Very true.

 

[steve69]

We had a customer in this week boasting how he uses a Safefill refillable LPG cylinder in his cabinet heater in his house
You should NEVER store or use Propane cylinders indoors only ever Butane.
His response was “I can’t see a problem “

Surely propane cylinders are "indoors" on a caravan or motorhome.

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[Charlie57]

 

[JockandRita]

Surely propane cylinders are "indoors" on a caravan or motorhome.

Not indoors, but in a dedicated and vented external storage locker.

Cheers

Jock.

 

[Pausim]

Surely propane cylinders are "indoors" on a caravan or motorhome.

No they are in an external locker with a vented floor.

Edit. JockandRita got there first.

 

[tonyidle]

Not sure why you feel the need to state publicly that your cylinders are now out of test / date ?
To be perfectly honest with you we get regular phone calls and visitors to our workshop who have every reason why they can do as they please and absolutely none of of the industry guidelines or practices apply to them .
I don’t have any patience for any of it any more and as soon as I hear the first word that comes close to them not listening to our advice or thinking about trying to be clever it results in me either walking away or telling them to leave our premises,
Just to make it perfectly clear if we know your cylinders or tank are out of date / certification then we should not fill your installation as we are deemed by law to be the filler and therefore responsible, your few pence profit on a refill isn’t worth the possible repercussions.
I may actually keep our LPG pump turned off and personally inspect every single customer’s system in future as I am actually now sick of this

My statement might make a few people check their own. I suspect that mine being out of date might be the tip of a very large iceberg. What are the likely problems caused by cylinder age? I can understand that portable cylinders will suffer from a build-up of transport damage and are presumably checked when being refilled. Do the valves/shut off floats on "tank" cylinders deteriorate? How are out-of-date cylinder tanks tested? I've always examined connections & tested for leaks during my MoT prep (just a convenient memory jogger) and have seen no issues. The cylinders are visually undamaged and not corroded.

 

[JJ]

Im just glad looking at your location
I am never likely to be anywhere near you

No answer to my question though!

JJ

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[JJ]

Dusty,
The problem as you can read herein,
is you have no idea whether the guy
parked next to you is a high risk taker or not,
you can see from reading all these replies,
that some could not care less about the risks,
even to themselves, never mind you next door.

Please explain what the risk is?

JJ

 

[Pausim]

No answer to my question though!

JJ

The fact that you have to ask just proves the point. There are already posts on this thread that contain the answer.

 

[JJ]

The fact that you have to ask just proves the point. There are already posts on this thread that contain the answer.

Oh please...

I have correctly filled Calor gas bottles myself (as have others I know) for DECADES with taking any "risks" or having any problems.

Filling your car with petrol involves risk.

I didn't "have" to ask the question... no one will tell me where the "risk" lies when I fill my bottles.


JJ

 

[Clive Beeza]

Oh please...

I have correctly filled Calor gas bottles myself (as have others I know) for DECADES with taking any "risks" or having any problems.

Filling your car with petrol involves risk.

I didn't "have" to ask the question... no one will tell me where the "risk" lies when I fill my bottles.


JJ

read quote 57,
and the reference to the Morrisons fireball damage

 

[Minxy]

I didn't "have" to ask the question... no one will tell me where the "risk" lies when I fill my bottles.


JJ

Maybe look in the mirror?

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[Stoosal]

Oh please...

I have correctly filled Calor gas bottles myself (as have others I know) for DECADES with taking any "risks" or having any problems.

Filling your car with petrol involves risk.

I didn't "have" to ask the question... no one will tell me where the "risk" lies when I fill my bottles.


JJ

Who has confirmed if you are filling correctly or if there are risks or not?……do you fill as per industry guidelines for example. Do you follow Calor guidelines for filling their cylinders? Do you use cylinders within Calor testing schedule etc etc. For the sake of a few pounds it must be easier and safer for everybody to have a designed refillable system.

 

[plumbob]

If you have to ask if you can store calor in a house or why not as previously stated it’s in a motorhome. PLEASE PLEASE STORE BOTTLES OUTSIDE OR IN VENTILATED LOCKERS.If you still think it’s okay after all that’s been said Don’t ever take a gas bottle in a basement of a property,Calor is heavier than air you won’t smell it till you’ve lost your roof and everything else.

 

[Tom G]

I'm guessing that ship has well and truly sailed.

 

[Toskana75]

Then fun will begin when we have adapter for our hydrogen cylinders

 

[TrudeandDall]

Oh please...

I have correctly filled Calor gas bottles myself (as have others I know) for DECADES with taking any "risks" or having any problems.

Filling your car with petrol involves risk.

I didn't "have" to ask the question... no one will tell me where the "risk" lies when I fill my bottles.


JJ

And there is another stupid side to refilling calor bottles - as you boasted " for decades". How do you ensure the are tested within the 10 yearly inspection regime, as required by UK legislation. And please don't add it different in Portugal as that is outside of the context of this discussion.

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[Ashy]

To put the cat amongst the pigeons, calor bottles are refillable, calor themselves do it. Popcorn time . I have Gaslow by the way.