Propane Calor Gas Refils?

[StitchUp]

We use two 6Kg (Orange) Calor gas bottles in our van. To refill locally costs £37, that is swap empty for full.

I notice on eBay there are these:

I'm unsure if it's easy to find refil stations - do you do it yourself - I'm told it's a lot cheaper or is it a no go?

The eBay fitting is circa £30

Any advice/comments?

Thanks

 

[Fragle]

Its a non refillable bottle Oh Please!, of course you can buy a cheap gizmo from our Chinese 'friends' I'm sure Calor use something more sophisticated, he should be prosecuted if for nothing else but gross stupidity.

You can and they do.

The fuel station fire was raised on another forum. One contributor even wrote out the whole process he used to fill Calor bottles. Apparently an ex employee.
I pointed out the stupidity of his comment and the fact he should really remove the post. It’s still there.
Stupid people don’t care about the consequences. They saved a couple of quid.

Before I stopped for the summer. I went to fill a 2000litre underground lpg tank upon arrival I’m looking for the cover for access.
Walk into back garden to find they had a large bonfire on the ground still smoking measured12 ft across and the edge of the fire was no more than 2 ft from the access. To the tank. What was most unbelievable was that they didn’t see a problem when I pointed out the issue Complaining that they needed their gas delivery.
I’m sure they would have blamed the installer of the tank if it went wrong they were so stupid

 

[Minxy]

By pure luck I found a place near me that will refill my 6kg bottle for £15.
I won't say where it is though as his supplier (calor) would stop dealing with him as they want their £30+ exchange scheme to flourish.

It is not illegal......it's just bad business as Calor see it.

I would hope he knew what he was doing BUT, and there's a BIG BUT ... it s not allowed for many reasons, safety being the main one ... even if he weighed it, checked the tare and then only filled it to 80%, he would still be an idiot to risk his business, insurance etc, by doing something so stupid and putting himself and you at risk. The last thing I would say is that you were 'lucky' to find him ... lucky you didn't have an incident maybe.

I assume you've never had the experience of a fire due to a gas leak in a MH ... I have (due to dealer's bad workmanship fitting a BBQ point), not something I ever want to experience again, nor for anyone else likewise.

I thought the whole issue was branded cylinders ie Calor Flogas being refilled , which is indeed illegal as they wish to maintain integrity or profit, delete as you wish.

As above, safety is paramount, Calor check the exchange bottles and then fill them, they don't just fill them willy-nilly which is what idiots do - I don't care if that upsets those who do it - it is dangerous.

Best practice as advised is to purchase the proper refillable cylinders .

Indeed - our original single bottle set-up cost £240 back in 2009, if I hadn't bothered to fit a second then that initial cost of £240 would equates to £16 a year over it's life (15 years as it's one of the earlier ones) and had the benefit of much cheaper LPG too - I know full well that I'd have spend a hell of a lot more on exchange cylinders than that and going abroad would have been a major issue for us as we could only fit one cylinder in a couple of our vehicles; even if it had been a 10 year cylinder it would still only have been £24 a year.

A full single bottle set-up now, fitted yourself, won't actually cost must more than I paid as there is more competition now and when compared to the 'real' price in 2009 they'll work out cheaper now.

 

[TonyEmm]

It is not illegal......it's just bad business as Calor see it.

Not illegal? Read this!

Calor's concern at unlawful and dangerous refilling of LPG cylinders at petrol stations I Calor Press Center

LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) supplier, Calor is extremely concerned at the reported rise in the number of people filling up gas cylinders using autogas dispensers at petrol forecourts.

www.calor.co.uk

 

[nabsim]

I have refillable and by no means standing up for refilling non refillables but where does it actually show it is illegal? The post above mine shows a link that says they prosecuted one seller of adapters 10 years ago. It also says the forecourt operator could be charged if something goes wrong. I don’t see anything that says it is illegal to refill?

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[meanders]

Struggle to understand why some here will go above and beyond with tales of people "getting away with it." For heaven's sake, this is a highly volatile gas we are talking about. Spreading stories of other people's crass stupidity that they think is a win, does nothing to improve safety, and will ultimately just make life harder for those who strictly follow the rules.

A few prosecutions needed to bring the smart arse fools into line.

 

[Fragle]

It is not illegal......it's just bad business as Calor see it.

So in your words Calor would stop dealing with them for filling the cylinders.

Then it’s illegal. They either have a license or not. You’re saying they don’t as Calor would not deal with them

 

[Pausim]

It has all been said before, stupid, selfish, arrogant etc. Unfortunately stupid and ignorant go hand in hand and between them they will get us all banned, even from filling legitimate refillable cylinders.

I expect the person who blew a hole in Morrisons at Wellingborough isn’t now quite so sure about his method for saving a few quid. In hospital with burns, motorhome destroyed and possibly not covered by his insurance because he was doing something he should not have been doing. The sad thing is he may be a victim of someone else spouting off about how easy it is to fill exchange cylinders.

 

[Rick Axon]

£37 seems a bit steep just swapped ours at local garden centre and it was £26.75

Our local hardware shop charges about £26, so £37 does seem a bit steep.

 

[JamesT@Dundee]

I have a safefill gas bottle. I went to refill it a Morrisons Wellingborough last week only to find the the pump and much of the petrol station roof had been taken down! Upon talking to the staff I found out that someone had tried to fill a Calor gas cylinder from the LPG pump. It caught fire, the man was seriously burnt and the pump totally destroyed.

Moral of the story - Don't try it!!

Sounds like a strong candidate for the Darwin Award...

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[Fragle]

It has all been said before, stupid, selfish, arrogant etc. Unfortunately stupid and ignorant go hand in hand and between them they will get us all banned, even from filling legitimate refillable cylinders.

I expect the person who blew a hole in Morrisons at Wellingborough isn’t now quite so sure about his method for saving a few quid. In hospital with burns, motorhome destroyed and possibly not covered by his insurance because he was doing something he should not have been doing. The sad thing is he may be a victim of someone else spouting off about how easy it is to fill exchange cylinders.

Where stupid people go even stupider people follow
I’m fully trained Gas Safe Registered. I’m also fully ADR trained and fully trained in the filling of LPG tanks.
I do not touch non refillable bottles. I’m not trained to do that. It’s dangerous.
Yet I probably have more of an idea than 99% of people who will have a go because I can buy a thing on e bay that will let me so it must be safe. It says so in the advertisement and bob down the road has done it for years.
Absolute morons
Gaslow and Gasit. It pays for itself so quickly it’s not worth the risk

 

[TonyEmm]

Where stupid people go even stupider people follow
I’m fully trained Gas Safe Registered. I’m also fully ADR trained and fully trained in the filling of LPG tanks.
I do not touch non refillable bottles. I’m not trained to do that. It’s dangerous.
Yet I probably have more of an idea than 99% of people who will have a go because I can buy a thing on e bay that will let me so it must be safe. It says so in the advertisement and bob down the road has done it for years.
Absolute morons
Gaslow and Gasit. It pays for itself so quickly it’s not worth the risk

Add ’Safefill’ to your list! AFAIK, it’s the only one Morrisons will accept…. That said, some of the forecourt staff are not that on the ball at checking.
i’ve been asked once in my last 30 odd refills… BTW, Morrisons at Wisbech doesn’t have a camera on the autogas, you could be filling anything!

 

[Pausim]

Sounds like a strong candidate for the Darwin Award...

He nearly qualified. To be nominated you are expected to have completely removed your genes from the gene pool, presumably doing so helps keep the “stupid gene” from wider circulation. In the natural order of things the stupid gene should be regressive but modern medicine and protection provided by laws and regulations means more stupid people survive and procreate.

 

[steve69]

Not illegal? Read this!

Calor's concern at unlawful and dangerous refilling of LPG cylinders at petrol stations I Calor Press Center

LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) supplier, Calor is extremely concerned at the reported rise in the number of people filling up gas cylinders using autogas dispensers at petrol forecourts.

www.calor.co.uk

So in your words Calor would stop dealing with them for filling the cylinders.

Then it’s illegal. They either have a license or not. You’re saying they don’t as Calor would not deal with them

Oh please!.......The guy has literally filled hundreds over the years with no reported instances of problems. The USA have been filling propane bottles in the same manner for decades now....Just exactly how do Calor themselves refill them?
So tell me. Where is the problem?

 

[BigPaul]

It’s illegal and unsafe to self fill Calor cylinders.
I use ’SafeFill’ which are designed for self filling. Many Morrisons fuel stations do autogas and it’s a relatively simple job, however, I have been asked to show the cylinder before they’ll allow me to refill!

What law would be broken and who would enforce it pleas?

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[TonyEmm]

What law would be broken and who would enforce it pleas?

The law is almost irrelevant here, nature would take its course and you’ll eventually blow yourself and everyone around you up!
Saves the cps getting involved!

 

[Pausim]

I have no doubt that when Calor fill their own bottles they are not using a cheapie device they bought off e-bay. They probably have some quite sophisticated apparatus for doing it.

As for the law I strongly suspect the HSE will be taking a very close look at the Wellingborough Morrisons incident. My fear is that Morrisons will be held accountable for allowing someone to do something dangerous and that will have consequences for all of us. Most likely they will stop the untrained public from using LPG pumps. Anyone who has ever been involved in HSE investigations will know they will be looking for an organisation to pin the blame on.

 

[Fragle]

I have no doubt that when Calor fill their own bottles they are not using a cheapie device they bought off e-bay. They probably have some quite sophisticated apparatus for doing it.

As for the law I strongly suspect the HSE will be taking a very close look at the Wellingborough Morrisons incident. My fear is that Morrisons will be held accountable for allowing someone to do something dangerous and that will have consequences for all of us. Most likely they will stop the untrained public from using LPG pumps. Anyone who has ever been involved in HSE investigations will know they will be looking for an organisation to pin the blame on.

That is correct. It will be the HSE that investigates and as you said will probably result in the end of the service.

 

[Fragle]

Oh please!.......The guy has literally filled hundreds over the years with no reported instances of problems. The USA have been filling propane bottles in the same manner for decades now....Just exactly how do Calor themselves refill them?
So tell me. Where is the problem?

Even if I knew how they filled cylinders. The last place I’d tell would be here.
Also just because someone has done something wrong for a long while doesn’t make it right. The problem is thinking it’s ok to keep doing it when it’s illegal.

 

[TonyEmm]

That is correct. It will be the HSE that investigates and as you said will probably result in the end of the service.

No reason why the service should be ended, just train the staff!

Morrisons Kings Lynn might ask to see your cylinder, Morrisons Wisbech definitely won’t! But then, there is only ever one on the tills. My 1st safefill fill up was at Wisbech, I asked for assistance to make sure I was doing it ok, she said “no chance, 1. I’m on my own , 2. I’ve not been trained”

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[the1andonly]

That is correct. It will be the HSE that investigates and as you said will probably result in the end of the service.

The intention of the HSE will not to put the organisation out of business but to fine sufficiently to make the organisation change and to educate the individuals in that organisation. I once worked for an organisation that had caused "civilian" deaths and had been ripped a new one by the HSE the details were only imparted to me long after the event because i'd noticed a difference between this and other organisations.

 

[Minxy]

Oh please!.......The guy has literally filled hundreds over the years with no reported instances of problems.

So what ... it still doesn't make it safe, just that he's got away with it for so long. As for 'reported instances', do you really think he'd tell anyone if anything did go wrong?

The USA have been filling propane bottles in the same manner for decades now....

Is that supposed to reassure me???? Knowing some of the stupid stuff American's do they'd be the last country I'd rely on for 'safe practices'!

Just exactly how do Calor themselves refill them?

I suspect they have a lot of safety procedures in place to ensure the 'empty' cylinders are safe to reuse before they even attempt to refill them ... they are NOT a 'back the garage' operator who does it as a side-line supposedly for the benefit of customers who are willing to take a risk with gas, and it is a risk as these cylinders are NOT meant to be refilled by Joe Public or anyone else regardless of them believing they are competent to do so.

So tell me. Where is the problem?

Apart from all the reasons already given ... with some of the crap products that are made in China etc where these things are likely to come from the last thing I would do is risk my life, or others, by using such a piece of non-certified equipment nor let someone else do it either. Even if it was a fully approved piece of kit, Calor and other non-user-refillable cylinder providers do NOT allow it - they 'own' the cylinders, their rules.

You appear not to want to 'hear' what we are saying as it suits you not to do so because you are 'getting away' with doing it ... for now ... for the sake of getting a genuine self-refillable cylinders is it really worth the risk of saving a few £???? Having a 5ft blowtorch (no exaggeration) in a MH certainly gives a clear 'demonstration' of just how dangerous gas is, we were very, very lucky that our MH didn't get turned into a pile of ash along with us.

 

[steve69]

£15 refill or £35 bottle exchange. At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes takes your choice.
Don't condemn others for their decisions. You will at least have the satisfaction of saying "told you so" if and when anything happens.....Speaking of which, I haven't heard any anecdotal evidence of problems with self-filled gas bottles in this country yet.
Feel free to enlighten me.

 

[Pausim]

£15 refill or £35 bottle exchange. At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes takes your choice.
Don't condemn others for their decisions. You will at least have the satisfaction of saying "told you so" if and when anything happens.....Speaking of which, I haven't heard any anecdotal evidence of problems with self-filled gas bottles in this country yet.
Feel free to enlighten me.

I think we have the right to condemn others if they are not only putting themselves at risk but other members of the public. I also think we have the right to criticise those who put our legitimate use of refillable products at risk. If you read the thread fully you will find reference to a fire at Wellingborough Morrisons which has been attributed to self filling a Calor bottle which is at least the anecdotal evidence you ask for and time will tell if it is fully factual.

 

[Fragle]

No reason why the service should be ended, just train the staff!

Morrisons Kings Lynn might ask to see your cylinder, Morrisons Wisbech definitely won’t! But then, there is only ever one on the tills. My 1st safefill fill up was at Wisbech, I asked for assistance to make sure I was doing it ok, she said “no chance, 1. I’m on my own , 2. I’ve not been trained”

The intention of the HSE will not to put the organisation out of business but to fine sufficiently to make the organisation change and to educate the individuals in that organisation. I once worked for an organisation that had caused "civilian" deaths and had been ripped a new one by the HSE the details were only imparted to me long after the event because i'd noticed a difference between this and other organisations.

Sorry I didn’t mean HSE would stop the service. I think Morrisons/Calor will see the risk as too much.
I do believe that LPG should have serviced pumps and not left to the general public to fill.

Being in Spain atm for the first time I find it quite strange that even the fuel pump has attended service and 2 lpg fills have both been serviced fills obviously they won’t fill if it’s not right.

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[The Wino]

Finding an lpg pump may not be too difficult, various web sites to help, but most are at fuel stations. Many will not allow the filling of “ loose” cylinders, as against installed refill cylinder systems that you fill via a access in the side of the van (like a fuel cap)

Often trotted out! Our filler is inside the locker we've had the van 10 years next year done 45,000 miles and never been questioned when refilling in the UK, France, Germany, Holland and Denmark. But totally agree that refilling calor is dangerous and illegal and if anyone saw you refilling a calor cylinder they're likely to shut the pump off.

 

[TrudeandDall]

I haven't looked back through all of this thread, so excuse me if I am covering something that has already been talked over. But it's not just the filling that is dangerous, it is filling above the 80% that will bring your self made danger to your van. 20% free space required for a reason !

 

[Clive Beeza]

£15 refill or £35 bottle exchange. At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes takes your choice.
Don't condemn others for their decisions. You will at least have the satisfaction of saying "told you so" if and when anything happens.....Speaking of which, I haven't heard any anecdotal evidence of problems with self-filled gas bottles in this country yet.
Feel free to enlighten me.

I'll enlighten you Steve,
A few years ago at the Shepton Mallet Motor home show
A van caught fire, and damaged the vans either side,
because the owner had been using self filled bottles
and when he turned on his gas hob, jets of LPG sprayed out
filled the inside with expanded gas, and BOOM
lucky no one was killed.
so the damaged to vans either side was caused by
the culprit saving a few £, nearly killing himself
and devastating the people either side as well

 

[Bessy765]

We use two 6Kg (Orange) Calor gas bottles in our van. To refill locally costs £37, that is swap empty for full.

I notice on eBay there are these:
View attachment 783640

I'm unsure if it's easy to find refil stations - do you do it yourself - I'm told it's a lot cheaper or is it a no go?

The eBay fitting is circa £30

Any advice/comments?

Thanks

It may help to explain the reason it is unsafe. Proper refillable bottles have a cut of valve when at 80% this leave an area of vapour above the liquid. As you use the gas the liquid simple boils off in the bottle to give more vapour. The pressure in the bottle stays fair constant till nearly empty. The reason they are designed this way is to ensure that the gas in liquid for never enters you system. Given the rate of expansion the gas if it got to say the hob would result in a massive fire. To give you an idea my regulator failed let to higher pressure blew the seals on my job and could have been a horror story. So rather than say just don’t here is the reason not to do it.

 

[Fatboy]

It is not illegal......it's just bad business as Calor see it.

It is illegal, they have no safety cut off, if you overfill them you will end up with liquid LPG coming out of your hob when you try to put the kettle on…. Extremely dangerous. LPG is liquid when it’s under pressure, when it reaches atmosphere it expands 600 times.

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[Charlie57]

£15 refill or £35 bottle exchange. At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes takes your choice.
Don't condemn others for their decisions. You will at least have the satisfaction of saying "told you so" if and when anything happens.....Speaking of which, I haven't heard any anecdotal evidence of problems with self-filled gas bottles in this country yet.
Feel free to enlighten me.