Portugal is now off the green list

[Spriddler]

Well it is now.
So far I've motorhomed only abroad for 20 years and I miss it very much but worse things happen at sea and I've plenty of other things to enjoy.

 

[suavecarve]

I think you'll both find he actually said the following in relation to the UK:

'If two people who both had two doses of vaccine and have both served at least 14 days after their second dose, then I would be highly confident scientifically that if they were reputable vaccines then indeed it would be incredibly safe for those two people to meet.'

Incredibly safe and perfectly safe are NOT the same.

Who said "Perfectly safe" ?
I didnt.
I also didnt say anything about 2 people meeting up inside.
I also didnt say anything about 14 days after vaccine
In fact i never mentioned vaccine.

I was talking about 2 different countries with similar rates of infection.

For example if France's rate was 100 and Belgium's rate was 100 there would be no point in the french stopping the belgians coming and vice versa.


If we were to wait for anything to perfectly safe we wouldnt go out the front door, nor would we put the kettle on or watch the TV.

 

[gus-lopez]

You will get back to normal but patience is a virtue Michael.

16 months buttons, total inconvenience & still no comeback with china?

 

[suavecarve]

Anyone who follows suavecarve thread on case numbers could see this coming! Portugal seen a 38% rise in cases in last 14 days and the Delta variant(Indian) is rife, as it is in the UK. We have seen a rise of 29%, hence Germany/ France stopping us.

And interestingly or not, Portugal released their figures about 10 minutes ago and just rose another 3. to 72.9 making their rise go from 38% to 40.7% over the fortnight and I ll look at their weekly rise later.

Our figures for today have not yet been released as they are still making adding them up.

 

[MichaelT]

We also holiday abroad but wont let it bother me until it is safe to do so. You live in a fantastic county with some real gems on your doorstep, the weather is gorgeous sorry don't understand your stress.

thats fine then so long as you are happy but I personally I would like to travel to Europe later in the year, but i fail to see how it is unsafe once vaccinated or what's the point? Obviously EU need to catch up which they will but if you are fully jabbed the risk is no more than catching a cold or the flu maybe less...

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[MichaelT]

Are you sure JVT said that ... please give me a link to his statement.

google it and you will find more news but here is one

Two fully vaccinated people inside would be 'incredibly safe' says JVT

It would be 'incredibly safe' for two fully Covid vaccinated people to meet up, Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said - but the UK will not follow the US in enabling vaccinated people to get together.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[suavecarve]

thats fine then so long as you are happy but I personally I would like to travel to Europe later in the year, but i fail to see how it is unsafe once vaccinated or what's the point? Obviously EU need to catch up which they will but if you are fully jabbed the risk is no more than catching a cold or the flu maybe less...

At least if you stay in this country you have more chance of dieing of Covid than dieing in an RTC (current figures)

Whatever you do, dont drive to a campsite in this country, its dangerous. (at this present time). It certainly isnt perfectly safe to do so but it is incredibly safe to do so

 

[HarryML7]

Is South Georgia still on the green list?

 

[MichaelT]

Is South Georgia still on the green list?

Yes and Brittany Ferries are starting a service as from next Thursday

 

[suavecarve]

And just because I read it, and cant believe it, in 2001 the amount of accidents resulting in a trip to A and E for having an accident doing the zip on your trousers up would mean that you were nearly 3 times more likely to have that than you are to currently die of covid.
Beanbags that year were more dangerous than meat cleavers
You were 8 times more likely to have an accident (meaning a trip to A and E) in your armchair, then, than die of covid in this country, at the moment.

So own up, who had a loofah accident or fell out off their perfectly safe armchair in 2001 ? (Loofah accidents were less than covid deaths)

Rise in domestic mishaps puts strain on NHS

The knitted tea cosy, once the centrepiece of British drinking habits, may be putting undue strain on the National Health Service, a government report has found.

www.theguardian.com

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[Minxy]

Who said "Perfectly safe" ?

MichaelT did:

Medical advice from JVT is that its perfectly safe for fully vaccinated people to mix with no adverse effects in general so lets get on with it (or at least the selfish we)

I didnt.
I also didnt say anything about 2 people meeting up inside.
I also didnt say anything about 14 days after vaccine
In fact i never mentioned vaccine.

I was talking about 2 different countries with similar rates of infection.

For example if France's rate was 100 and Belgium's rate was 100 there would be no point in the french stopping the belgians coming and vice versa.


If we were to wait for anything to perfectly safe we wouldnt go out the front door, nor would we put the kettle on or watch the TV.

I was responding to Michael and you then appeared to respond about my request for a link to what JVT had actually said suggesting I find the quote on Google:

The quote can be found within google somewhere however quite difficult to find as there are numerous JVT quotes, however, I remember that one.

As I said JVT did not say "perfectly safe".

 

[MichaelT]

MichaelT did:




I was responding to Michael and you then appeared to respond about my request for a link to what JVT had actually said suggesting I find the quote on Google:

As I said JVT did not say "perfectly safe".

nor is crossing the road or going to Tesco's (other supermarkets are available)

 

[glenn2926]

nor is crossing the road or going to Tesco's (other supermarkets are available)

It would appear that sitting in ones armchair is not as safe as some would like.

 

[Gerby]

With regard to those that are or are not vaccinated and why I will give my own family position:

My son is 22 years old and as yet has not had any contact with regard to vaccination (he will be getting vaccinated at the earliest opportunity offered to him), I would like to think as a healthy fit lad he would not suffer severe consequences if he did catch it but who knows.

I am 59 years old and my wife is 56 we have both received our first jab and are booked in for our second one on Saturday the dates were the first ones we could get as we booked our appointments as soon as we were able. my wife (as part of a national study) had an antibody test a few weeks ago which showed she had no antibodies whatsoever I do not know what my own antibody state is but I believe I should not assume a full level of protection until a couple of weeks after the second jab.

Now I believe that those who have completed their 2 jabs and built up the best level of antibodies can still get the virus but will most likely not have any symptoms and almost certainly not have any serious ones and whilst I understand they may feel aggrieved at not being able to spend a couple of weeks in guaranteed sun on a foreign beach I am sure they would understand that I would very much prefer it if they didn't run the risk of returning to this country having unwittingly got infected and then unknowingly passing it onto my son (who should hopefully not get anything too serious) or even worse my wife who we know has not yet built up any antibodies despite having taken the vaccination at the earliest chance she was given, I do hope the second jabs on Saturday are more effective than the first (certainly where my wife is concerned).

 

[MichaelT]

With regard to those that are or are not vaccinated and why I will give my own family position:

My son is 22 years old and as yet has not had any contact with regard to vaccination, I would like to think as a healthy fit lad he would not suffer severe consequences if he did catch it but who knows.

I am 59 years old and my wife is 56 we have both received our first jab and are booked in for our second one on Saturday the dates were the first ones we could get as we booked our appointments as soon as we were able. my wife (as part of a national study) had an antibody test a few weeks ago which showed she had no antibodies whatsoever I do not know what my own antibody state is but I believe I should not assume a full level of protection until a couple of weeks after the second jab.

Now I believe that those who have completed their 2 jabs and built up the best level of antibodies can still get the virus but will most likely not have any symptoms and almost certainly not have any serious ones and whilst I understand they may feel aggrieved at not being able to spend a couple of weeks in guaranteed sun on a foreign beach I am sure they would understand that I would very much prefer it if they didn't run the risk of returning to this country having unwittingly got infected and then unknowingly passing it onto my son (who should hopefully not get anything too serious) or even worse my wife who we know has not yet built up any antibodies despite having taken the vaccination at the earliest chance she was given, I do hope the second jabs on Saturday are more effective than the first (certainly where my wife is concerned.

So if in 3 weeks your wife has still not got any antibodies does that mean the rest of the country must still stay in the UK or perhaps we should go back into lockdown until she has antibodies?

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[suavecarve]

As I said JVT did not say "perfectly safe"

Be careful with the armchair, the loofah and the kettle, as per my previous post. None of those are perfectly safe but on the face of it they would seem incredibly safe.

 

[Gerby]

So if in 3 weeks your wife has still not got any antibodies does that mean the rest of the country must still stay in the UK or perhaps we should go back into lockdown until she has antibodies?

Not at all that element was merely to give a full picture of my family position I would not expect 1 person to hold up easing of lockdown though it is interesting that you focus in on this one element rather than trying to see the wider picture given (each to their own I suppose), I was just pointing out that some (indeed many) people have not yet had a chance to get the full protection even having taken every opportunity to do so, myself included. we are not in this position from choice we simply had to (quite rightly) wait our turn whilst others deemed at greater risk were, again, quite rightly given priority.

I was of course quite patient and waited, as I should, for my turn I just hope those that were able to get the protection earlier show the same patience that I did

 

[138go]

Some people could have an argument, all by themselves, in a sealed motorhome.

 

[The Wino]

With regard to those that are or are not vaccinated and why I will give my own family position:

My son is 22 years old and as yet has not had any contact with regard to vaccination (he will be getting vaccinated at the earliest opportunity offered to him), I would like to think as a healthy fit lad he would not suffer severe consequences if he did catch it but who knows.

I am 59 years old and my wife is 56 we have both received our first jab and are booked in for our second one on Saturday the dates were the first ones we could get as we booked our appointments as soon as we were able. my wife (as part of a national study) had an antibody test a few weeks ago which showed she had no antibodies whatsoever I do not know what my own antibody state is but I believe I should not assume a full level of protection until a couple of weeks after the second jab.

Now I believe that those who have completed their 2 jabs and built up the best level of antibodies can still get the virus but will most likely not have any symptoms and almost certainly not have any serious ones and whilst I understand they may feel aggrieved at not being able to spend a couple of weeks in guaranteed sun on a foreign beach I am sure they would understand that I would very much prefer it if they didn't run the risk of returning to this country having unwittingly got infected and then unknowingly passing it onto my son (who should hopefully not get anything too serious) or even worse my wife who we know has not yet built up any antibodies despite having taken the vaccination at the earliest chance she was given, I do hope the second jabs on Saturday are more effective than the first (certainly where my wife is concerned).

In the view of some you ought to be glad to risk covid for their holiday that they can't wait for . I could expand but would upset some.

 

[deleted79651]

Some people could have an argument, all by themselves, in a sealed motorhome.

I've been told often that I COULD start an argument in an empty house. Of course, because it is otherwise empty, I am the only one who knows that I have, on more than one occasion ...

Steve

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[Spriddler]

Be careful with the armchair, the loofah and the kettle, as per my previous post. None of those are perfectly safe but on the face of it they would seem incredibly safe.

Better give up driving. RoSPA figures reported that more people are drowned in their vehicles than in boating accidents.

UK drowning statistics

 

[The Wino]

Looks like the health secretary got it wrong again he said
Britain's love of queuing helped the UK coronavirus vaccine rollout, the health secretary has said, as jabs were given "according to need, not ability to pay".
It sounds to me from what some are saying about waiting for a holiday in response to someone who wants trips put on hold as they wait in the queue like it's much more a case of all 4 trotters in the trough for some.

 

[AG 2602]

With respect Mr Old Man...

I am in Portugal and I am NOT...

Crying or wailing or protesting...

What are you like?

JJ

Neither would I be I’d be sat at the bar with a cold one!
Have a great time!

 

[deleted79651]

RoSPA figures reported that more people are drowned in their cars than in boating accidents.

UK drowning statistics

That's because fewer people try to use boats as cars, but, it seems that more try to use their cars as boats ...

Steve

 

[jongood]

I think you'll both find he actually said the following in relation to the UK:

'If two people who both had two doses of vaccine and have both served at least 14 days after their second dose, then I would be highly confident scientifically that if they were reputable vaccines then indeed it would be incredibly safe for those two people to meet.'

Incredibly safe and perfectly safe are NOT the same.

I heard him say it, he was most emphatic IMO.

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[jongood]

And interestingly or not, Portugal released their figures about 10 minutes ago and just rose another 3. to 72.9 making their rise go from 38% to 40.7% over the fortnight and I ll look at their weekly rise later.

Our figures for today have not yet been released as they are still making adding them up.

They're probably busy looking through files see how many other poor souls they can drag into the figures to keep us frightened.

It really does make me wonder who thought that holding the Uefa Cup final in Porto was a good idea?

 

[Tombola]

Can you though? This has been questioned by plenty of scientists but nobody is coming up with any figures at all to support this

Well it was debated, and leant in the early days to minute risk, then large risk then not so large risk.

But touching contaminated surfaces then your eye, mmaybe mouth then yes. Small I agree but still a risk. Just the same as a cold can. This is why we all do fist pumps and elbow smashes.

It comes down what is reasonably practicable and safe versus letting u soff the leash.

Id like to make sure "perfectly safe" and stay at home a few more weeks, than run the risk of passing it on and raising the numbers

 

[Tombola]

For example if France's rate was 100 and Belgium's rate was 100 there would be no point in the french stopping the belgians coming and vice versa.

Madness

 

[MITHRANDIR]

Beggars belief that Mr Shapps can spout about the rising cases in Portugal, when it is clearly because of the Indian variant being imported to the uk, and then to Portugal because of poor management, in the first place.
I have the view that as far as travel overseas is concerned, it should be restricted to fully vaccinated people only, those who cannot have the vaccine, which will be comparatively few should have a medical exemption, it may encourage the unvaccinated, and unwilling to get vaccinated.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

Well it was debated, and leant in the early days to minute risk, then large risk then not so large risk.

But touching contaminated surfaces then your eye, mmaybe mouth then yes. Small I agree but still a risk. Just the same as a cold can. This is why we all do fist pumps and elbow smashes.

It comes down what is reasonably practicable and safe versus letting u soff the leash.

Id like to make sure "perfectly safe" and stay at home a few more weeks, than run the risk of passing it on and raising the numbers

Not being pedantic, but you should change "a few more weeks" to a few more years at least, to be even remotely accurate

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