Petition to Reduce University student tuition fees from £9250 to £3000

[Coolcats]

If it’s subsidised who is paying for it ?

Tax payers and those who go to uni would also be contributing once working. If you have children both myself and wife have contributed to their education and other child benefits. We have no issue with this it helps all of society.

 

[Ivory55]

No one said free what is said is to make it at a cost that is reasonable and fair for all to access.

Then everyone should get it like I said, discount for all or nobody.

 

[Ivory55]

Tax payers and those who go to uni would also be contributing once working. If you have children both myself and wife have contributed to their education and other child benefits. We have no issue with this it helps all of society.

I would rather cut out the middle man and give it to me now.

 

[Tombola]

Its all smoke and mirrors in my eyes.
Parents want all of the rest of us taxpayers to share the burden for their kids Uni student loans that hardly ever get paid back.

If my litle johny wants to go to UNI then I wont carp about the repayment loan costs that the tax payer stumps up initially,.

The student loans wont even start to be repayed until he starts earning about 27k, even then only 9% of the "extra" and considering a vast proportion of them "take a year or 5 out" (why god only knows when they could be back contributing what has been accrued) after being constantly pissed and smoking weed and shagging.
and even then they only pay 9% of the amount over about 27k, so a year thats 38 quid repayment per year out of 27k. Id love someone to show me some figures that show more than 10% of students pay back the loans in full in the first 10 years or so....wont happen.
If you take out the female side that end up having kids/maternity or male paternity, then the ones who just "drop" into a different lower paid job, who studied the science of sea horse coppulation in the irish sea, but then got at job at maccies and worked their way to store manager, then take away those that just plod and went to uni cos their mates did, and those that never get the 27k, you aint got much left to recoup our taxes from at 38 quid a year

If they dont get a job earning more than this then they wont pay, and after 30 years its quashed.

there should be a petition that if you want to get a better education you pay in full, see USA as a prime example (without scholarship). then see how many brits think UNI is a good idea

Sure there are some positions that a degree is essential cos 5 years getting pissed lying in bed late and showing your boobies on party nights is a pre requisite for most MOD jobs and people wishing to progress to whitehall. But apart from that , more and more these days are getting straight into work at the shop floor is more and more appealing, and reaps rewards quicker if you are smart and a grafter.
Im a graduate, and it was a piece of cake, I only started learning the real job when I got employed, and wish Id done it from the start.

Lots of unis are struggling to fill positions now too.
Get in on the shop floor id say ASAP and save your money, Unis are so last decade now that kids can sit on a pc and be a fabulous earner just from a desk.
Im not speaking for everyone at UNI but Id say more and more now its becoming old hat. OU is a good option for quals if required, as has been said

 

[Spidey]

In general I am ok with the fees as it’s only paid back once a certain salary level is reached. It is not a loan but a tax so if they are not earning then they don’t pay. My eldest is a vet a huge student loan but it doesn’t matter as she isn’t paying a lot back each month. Vets do not earn huge salary, decent but not huge.
I am all for the fees being reduced for last year and this year or until the restrictions are lifted. My youngest is in her first year and is now studying from home. She would much rather be on campus utilising the library and having in person learning. So her course is not great value. No refund for accommodation which was catered as well. BJ just announced they are looking at students so hopefully they will do something to ease it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Hirsch]

But has to be paid for, but by who.

Whoever paid for the higher education of those that introduced £9000 per annum fees?

 

[suavecarve]

Just edited to say that the petition has nearly 500,000 signatures not bad in two day I think it is an emotive issue be good to see what happens

It looks a really impressive number ........................ but ........... you knew that was coming. 2.38 million UK students in higher education in UK which should (assuming 2 parents per student) mean that 7.14 million have a financial interest in this aim and the rest of the population having a financial interest in it not achieving its aim.

 

[Tombola]

In general I am ok with the fees as it’s only paid back once a certain salary level is reached. It is not a loan but a tax so if they are not earning then they don’t pay. My eldest is a vet a huge student loan but it doesn’t matter as she isn’t paying a lot back each month.

I am all for the fees being reduced for last year

No refund for accommodation which was catered as well. BJ just announced they are looking at students so hopefully they will do something to ease it.

My point made.

More of my heard earned. BJ isnt giving it...we are. Im not aiming at you personally but general majority

 

[Tombola]

debate means nothing, far bigger things to concentrate on

 

[Langtoftlad]

In general I am ok with the fees as it’s only paid back once a certain salary level is reached. It is not a loan but a tax so if they are not earning then they don’t pay. My eldest is a vet a huge student loan but it doesn’t matter as she isn’t paying a lot back each month. Vets do not earn huge salary, decent but not huge.
I am all for the fees being reduced for last year and this year or until the restrictions are lifted. My youngest is in her first year and is now studying from home. She would much rather be on campus utilising the library and having in person learning. So her course is not great value. No refund for accommodation which was catered as well. BJ just announced they are looking at students so hopefully they will do something to ease it.

I think you have a point - being at University is all about the environment, not just the lectures or the tutorials. It is mingling with other undergraduates, perhaps from the same discipline, perhaps with different ones. A lot of discoveries have been made by cooperation.

I'm not sure I agree with a reduction in student fees per se, but if you're not getting what you've paid for?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Coolcats]

It looks a really impressive number ........................ but ........... you knew that was coming. 2.38 million UK students in higher education in UK which should (assuming 2 parents per student) mean that 7.14 million have a financial interest in this aim and the rest of the population having a financial interest in it not achieving its aim.

Except there are millions of youngster who are not at university yet and the parents who may be saving to send the youngsters to university and of course what about the single parents and those on minimum wage....

 

[Spidey]

Except there are millions of youngster who are not at university yet and the parents who may be saving to send the youngsters to university and of course what about the single parents and those on minimum wage....

It’s not really the fees that are issue and doesn’t prevent someone from going. The issue for parents is the money needed for accommodation and living. You can borrow from SLS depending upon salary.
For instance my youngest could only borrow the min which is the fees and about £4700 for living. Her hall fees are about £8500! So I think that worries a lot of parents.

 

[2x2camper]

It’s not really the fees that are issue and doesn’t prevent someone from going. The issue for parents is the money needed for accommodation and living. You can borrow from SLS depending upon salary.
For instance my youngest could only borrow the min which is the fees and about £4700 for living. Her hall fees are about £8500! So I think that worries a lot of parents.

This is the main problem with the funding.

Their basically is no account made in the loan for accommodation. When I was at uni I could afford to live on my grant with also paying for my accommodation. This just isn't possible nowadays.

 

[Coolcats]

It’s not really the fees that are issue and doesn’t prevent someone from going. The issue for parents is the money needed for accommodation and living. You can borrow from SLS depending upon salary.
For instance my youngest could only borrow the min which is the fees and about £4700 for living. Her hall fees are about £8500! So I think that worries a lot of parents.

So lets work this out, a Student leaves University with a Debt made up of £29,100 plus accommodation some universities Hall fees are slightly less but taking your figure that's £25,500 plus living costs you provided of £14,100. Thats £68,700 OMG the lets say a masters is in the offering add £14,400 (if its an MBA it will cost more) So that's £83,100 debt or costs , before starting working life, by signing the petition to reduce fees means you would still be shelling out on the undergrad ££48,600 yet you are arguing against it!

Some of my colleagues have brought houses or flats near universities for thier children and then let the other rooms out to other students.

But again the argument of oh its just a 30 year loan, they won't have to pay it back, this must affect their credit rating particular when applying for a mortgage. We are loading the children's lives with debt before they start work and yet from what I see on some responses its all OK but the reality is it is not. Particular if you are from a low income family there is no support from the bank of Mum and Dad. So again I would suggest that Education should be for all who choose it and at level that can be afforded by all and a few who may need a Bursery or loan, but it does seem to have gotten a little out of hand regarding costs.

 

[Coolcats]

This is the main problem with the funding.

Their basically is no account made in the loan for accommodation. When I was at uni I could afford to live on my grant with also paying for my accommodation. This just isn't possible nowadays.

Unless the student undertakes an OU degree or stays at home and is at a local University

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[2x2camper]

Unless the student undertakes an OU degree or stays at home and is at a local University

So the parent is still paying their housing costs.

 

[Coolcats]

So the parent is still paying their housing costs.

Sigh........If your undertaking an OU degree its part time with means your Children can go and get a Job and pay you housekeeping and carry out some household chores etc which is what parents generally expect, or you may kick them out and let them fend for themselves but at least they have a full time job. If they are a full time student you could still have an adjusted housekeeping assuming they have a part time job, or just be a beneficial parent and indulge your sibling/s

The choice as they say is yours.

As an apprentice, I paid 1/3 of my wage to my parents 1/3 was travel costs and 1/3 on going out at the weekend with my mates. I am sure many others on this forum did the same a youngsters.

 

[Tombola]

Age old remark from my parents and grand parents.
If you can afford it you cant have it.

Im sure if someones child wanted the biggest best toy for xmas/new car/pc/mortgage deposit it wouldnt happen within reason OR you get a loan and pay it back, not maaaaybe pay some of it back.

There are plenty alternatives to most campus Uni courses instead of getting funding that will never be paid back.

Then the stress placed on students by media/education system and pushy parents is astounding. A levels are not the be all and end all, and telling kids that it is, is too much. Debt/Suicide/anxiety, stress all for what (in most cases) can be avoided .

Good people will always rise to the top, having a few letters after your name doesnt guarantee success. The decline in University take up continues to grow .

I gave my kids the option, they all achived mostly enough results for what they wanted to do at various unis, and all 3 decided to get into work.
They are all doing very well have gained vast world/work experience and have some savings or small company stocks/investements behind them and all the things young adults need. The youngest 2 would still be in uni now with debt/stress/(pushy parents) and wondering if they will actually get a job , or like lots of students sacking the degree and getting any job that comes along..

Ive lost count of the amount of BA Hons, that have come through companies that I have worked in or ran, who dont have an ounce of...
Common sense
Get up and go
Incentive
Will to work
but they have the letters
Its not all UNI, UNI UNI that gurantees success.

 

[Coolcats]

Age old remark from my parents and grand parents.
If you can afford it you cant have it.

Im sure if someones child wanted the biggest best toy for xmas/new car/pc/mortgage deposit it wouldnt happen within reason OR you get a loan and pay it back, not maaaaybe pay some of it back.

There are plenty alternatives to most campus Uni courses instead of getting funding that will never be paid back.

Then the stress placed on students by media/education system and pushy parents is astounding. A levels are not the be all and end all, and telling kids that it is, is too much. Debt/Suicide/anxiety, stress all for what (in most cases) can be avoided .

Good people will always rise to the top, having a few letters after your name doesnt guarantee success. The decline in University take up continues to grow .

I gave my kids the option, they all achived mostly enough results for what they wanted to do at various unis, and all 3 decided to get into work.
They are all doing very well have gained vast world/work experience and have some savings or small company stocks/investements behind them and all the things young adults need. The youngest 2 would still be in uni now with debt/stress/(pushy parents) and wondering if they will actually get a job , or like lots of students sacking the degree and getting any job that comes along..

Ive lost count of the amount of BA Hons, that have come through companies that I have worked in or ran, who dont have an ounce of...
Common sense
Get up and go
Incentive
Will to work
but they have the letters
Its not all UNI, UNI UNI that gurantees success.

This is true, but I wouldn't have a Dentist work on my teeth who had a BA

 

[Spidey]

So lets work this out, a Student leaves University with a Debt made up of £29,100 plus accommodation some universities Hall fees are slightly less but taking your figure that's £25,500 plus living costs you provided of £14,100. Thats £68,700 OMG the lets say a masters is in the offering add £14,400 (if its an MBA it will cost more) So that's £83,100 debt or costs , before starting working life, by signing the petition to reduce fees means you would still be shelling out on the undergrad ££48,600 yet you are arguing against it!

Some of my colleagues have brought houses or flats near universities for thier children and then let the other rooms out to other students.

But again the argument of oh its just a 30 year loan, they won't have to pay it back, this must affect their credit rating particular when applying for a mortgage. We are loading the children's lives with debt before they start work and yet from what I see on some responses its all OK but the reality is it is not. Particular if you are from a low income family there is no support from the bank of Mum and Dad. So again I would suggest that Education should be for all who choose it and at level that can be afforded by all and a few who may need a Bursery or loan, but it does seem to have gotten a little out of hand regarding costs.

I look at completely differently to you. My daughter wanted to be a vet. A long course which has been subsidised to the £9k a year. It cost far more than that to qualify as a vet. She earns about £34k after working 3 years so not a huge salary and it doesn’t go up much. She pays less than £50 a month in payments. If she lost her job or decided to work part time then she doesn’t pay anything at all! So that is not a debt it’s a student tax. It only effects the mortgage as any other bill would. Instead of helping with fees we put money away to give her some money for a house deposit as that is now the hardest thing to save for.

I feel the biggest problem is the people that want to go to uni and their parents can’t afford to help. Or very sadly some parents refuse. For example a 24 year old living with her partner wants to do a PGCE course when applying for funding she had to list her parents income. Think that is the major problem with the system and an 18 year should be able to choose to not involve their parents if that is better for them. There are no grants anymore so they could choose to borrow the whole amount to allow them to go if independently assessed.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Stoosal]

Monthly repayments are very small and not particularly cumbersome for most students if there salary is large enough to be repaying anything at all. Don’t know why parents shell out thousands for costs....far easier to repay the loan repayment amounts on child’s behalf when they become due and keep capital in the bank in case they need it?

 

[Hirsch]

I listened to a radio 4 programme this evening whilst travelling home from work. Just short of 30 minutes long and I found it really interesting. I think it was called 'rethinking fairness'. I'm sure it will be on again at some point.

The question posed was about how the younger generation ( 20 - 29 year olds) feel about the state of the world/this country, their prospects and if they think they will have it as good as previous generations. Some of the participants had been through university, some hadn't and there are contributions from an ex Bank of England someone and another person.

All contributors thought we (older generations) have had the best years and we are leaving them, the country. the world and their futures in a sorry state. The Bank of England contributor suggested radical rethinking of how we as a country invest in education and need to encourage companies to invest in creating conditions that result in well paid jobs for the younger generations to aspire to. The invited guests (not the young people) both suggested the country needed a radical re-think regarding pensions, pensionable age, redistributing wealth. (Maybe my ideas for a revolution will happen after my time? Always the way with those who have foresight . Perhaps I will be remembered by those who knew me as a visionary in some way ).

One interesting snippet was the comparison between us and Germany and the percentage split between academic and technical education. I always knew they had it right and we had it wrong but even I was shocked at the size of the disparity.

Worth a listen if you would like to hear a different perspective.

 

[Hirsch]

Monthly repayments are very small and not particularly cumbersome for most students if there salary is large enough to be repaying anything at all. Don’t know why parents shell out thousands for costs....far easier to repay the loan repayment amounts on child’s behalf when they become due and keep capital in the bank in case they need it?

I think I have already stated the government will have to re-think the model as there are not going to be many people paid sufficient to pay back the loan. See my previous post.

 

[hymerman]

Lots of differing views on this topic.
Just as an example :
If someone chooses to be a commercial airline pilot which obviously benefits that person, but also the rest of society too,
the costs incurred in gaining the required qualification which are approx £120,000, not including any living costs have to be met fully by the individual concerned using private funds or bank loans etc, with no other help from tax payers or anyone.
These loans have to be repaid with large interest charges whether or not the person gains future employment or not. There is also no bottom salary limit that if it isn't met then the loan doesn't need repaying ,as is the case with University students.
OK, it's a personal choice but so is going to University.
In the current climate with little flying being undertaken I really feel for these future pilots gaining employment with these huge debts that still have to be repaid.
My point being that I cannot understand why University students have any cause to complain, they chose to go to University knowing all the details, and with massive payment protection in place if they don't reach a bottom salary threshold.
Rant over !

 

[Spriddler]

Mind boggling debt and estimated that only 25% will ever be repaid.

Official Gov't figures.............:

'Currently more than £17 billion is loaned to around 1.3 million students in England each year. The value of outstanding loans at the end of March 2020 reached £140 billion. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans to be around £560 billion (2019‑20 prices) by the middle of this century. The average debt among the cohort of borrowers who finished their courses in 2019 was £40,000.

The Government expects that 25% of current full-time undergraduates who take out loans will repay them in full'.

Source.
Broken Link Removed

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[suavecarve]

Mind boggling debt and estimated that only 25% will ever be repaid.

Official Gov't figures.............:

'Currently more than £17 billion is loaned to around 1.3 million students in England each year. The value of outstanding loans at the end of March 2020 reached £140 billion. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans to be around £560 billion (2019‑20 prices) by the middle of this century. The average debt among the cohort of borrowers who finished their courses in 2019 was £40,000.

The Government expects that 25% of current full-time undergraduates who take out loans will repay them in full'.

Source.
Broken Link Removed

If i have understood this right, this petition is basically to get rid of the 25% they actually pay back ?

 

[Spriddler]

If i have understood this right, this petition is basically to get rid of the 25% they actually pay back ?

Yes, it seems that the gov't expect to recover only 25% of the loans (which at end March 2020 totalled £140 billion).

 

[Coolcats]

If i have understood this right, this petition is basically to get rid of the 25% they actually pay back ?

which ever way you look at this it is a flawed model, it may keep the young off the streets but as was pointed out there are other costs for families or students that are not covered. Therefore if Education was made affordable no one would loose

 

[Ivory55]

When I see something that’s of beneficial to me personally I will fall over and be interested, but so far I have only seen people wanting more off me in the form of tax etc. That’s probably why nobody gives a monkeys about anybody else now days, because nobody gives a monkeys about them.

 

[Hirsch]

When I see something that’s of beneficial to me personally I will fall over and be interested, but so far I have only seen people wanting more off me in the form of tax etc. That’s probably why nobody gives a monkeys about anybody else now days, because nobody gives a monkeys about them.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. We are moving even further down the road to I'm alright jack ****** to anyone else.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}