Petition to Reduce University student tuition fees from £9250 to £3000

[Langtoftlad]

So how are you going to asses who has the ‘best minds’ given that there are many who are classed in the school system as ‘failures’ ? There are many examples where individuals go on to be expert (best minds) in there field.

Luckily that is not my problem.

 

[Chris]

I've signed it, mainly because the £9,000 price is socially divisive, and prevents social mobility. Many poorer families cannot possibly afford the fees. I also think that young people should not start their careers with a huge debt hanging over them.

When I see University Chancellors pocketing salaries of £600,000 plus I think it obscene.

Everyone should have equal opportunity to use their talents and hard work to improve their lot, regardless of their parents wealth.

I agree with that 100%

As you say obscene salaries paid to Chancellors who are glorified teachers. It shouldn't go unnoticed either that these obscene salaries only started getting paid when the tuition fees went from £3k to £9K, which tells its own story.

 

[tonyidle]

Signed / Confirmed

 

[Coolcats]

Luckily that is not my problem.

indeed

 

[Hirsch]

I'd reduce the salary for Vice Chancellors. That should make up for any tuition fees lost.

Apologies Augusta08. I didn't read all posts before getting my grumpy head on.

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[Silver-Fox]

I have posted this petition as I believe education should be affordable for all. The reality for many who go to university means they are saddled with debt for years. The old days of a uni degree meaning you would expect to have higher earnings are long gone. It is a burden that families and their children should not have to face. Please share this petition

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Reduce University student tuition fees from £9250 to £3000​

Petition: Reduce University student tuition fees from £9250 to £3000

Call on the government to consider holding debates in Parliament between MPs and university students to raise/discuss issues that affect them. It will allow students to voice their opinions and concerns about tuition fees of £9250 a year which are too high, particularly as grants have been removed

petition.parliament.uk

I couldn’t agree more for what I’d call proper degrees.

For the other “plastic” ones double or treble the fees

 

[Kannon Fodda]

The issue here is one of aspiration. Kids are almost expected to go to Uni as a rite of passage. There is a level of snobbery to it that if you aren't able to meet the grades for Uni you are already on the back foot of life. You are somehow to be looked down upon if your job will involve getting your hands dirty yet plumbers, electricians can earn thousands and many trades and vocational occupations are both highly knowledgeable and skilled, yet don't need degrees.

Too many go to Uni and then find their degree didn't prepare them for employment. I know of too many educated people struggling to hold down a job in a call centre. I have no objection to those who want to study through a genuine academic interest (one friend has a degree in Egyptology and knew it wouldn't get him a job), but the majority should be seeking further education simply that it will lead to a career. Perhaps the rot set in when they decided the second tier of higher education, Polytechnics, that concentrated on vocational degrees needed to be renamed as Universities.

Yes I was fortunate to do my degree way back in the 1980s. There were no fees, and even a modest (means tested) student grant. Even so I still came out of it stoney broke, and needed to have worked during the term breaks to make ends meet. But it also lead directly to my career and the degree exempted me from the first stage of professional exams (due to Polytechnics having their degree content assessed by external bodies, unlike the university degrees at the time that did not exempt from exams as the professional body couldn't influence the degree). Yes year 1 of the three year was in some respects a balancing exercise to bring us all to the same standard - due to different backgrounds and knowledge - some of us needed skills in perhaps economics, other needed draughtsmanship or computing (in it's infancy), but we were all learning, except for the couple who quickly fell by the wayside realising the cushy ride wouldn't exist. I know a similar course today would leave me in a lot of debt, but it would have lead to a reasonably well paid career.

I don't feel sorry that students need to pay, if they don't earn they don't have to pay back, and it should focus attention on whether they really do need to go to Uni, or acquire skills in some other way.

All these jobs going will mean a lot of Cannon fodder available.

er um One of me is enough I think

 

[Hirsch]

The issue here is one of aspiration. Kids are almost expected to go to Uni as a rite of passage. There is a level of snobbery to it that if you aren't able to meet the grades for Uni you are already on the back foot of life. You are somehow to be looked down upon if your job will involve getting your hands dirty yet plumbers, electricians can earn thousands and many trades and vocational occupations are both highly knowledgeable and skilled, yet don't need degrees.

Too many go to Uni and then find their degree didn't prepare them for employment. I know of too many educated people struggling to hold down a job in a call centre. I have no objection to those who want to study through a genuine academic interest (one friend has a degree in Egyptology and knew it wouldn't get him a job), but the majority should be seeking further education simply that it will lead to a career. Perhaps the rot set in when they decided the second tier of higher education, Polytechnics, that concentrated on vocational degrees needed to be renamed as Universities.

Yes I was fortunate to do my degree way back in the 1980s. There were no fees, and even a modest (means tested) student grant. Even so I still came out of it stoney broke, and needed to have worked during the term breaks to make ends meet. But it also lead directly to my career and the degree exempted me from the first stage of professional exams (due to Polytechnics having their degree content assessed by external bodies, unlike the university degrees at the time that did not exempt from exams as the professional body couldn't influence the degree). Yes year 1 of the three year was in some respects a balancing exercise to bring us all to the same standard - due to different backgrounds and knowledge - some of us needed skills in perhaps economics, other needed draughtsmanship or computing (in it's infancy), but we were all learning, except for the couple who quickly fell by the wayside realising the cushy ride wouldn't exist. I know a similar course today would leave me in a lot of debt, but it would have lead to a reasonably well paid career.

I don't feel sorry that students need to pay, if they don't earn they don't have to pay back, and it should focus attention on whether they really do need to go to Uni, or acquire skills in some other way.


er um One of me is enough I think

I agree with most of your points apart from the last paragraph. Someone has already made the point about young people feeling the pressure to get a degree in order to keep pace.

I have a son and a stepson who both gained first class honours in their chosen subjects but not sure if it will benefit them in the long term. The additional tax they will have to pay, should they earn sufficient will hurt them along the way. A salary of just over £20k per annum doesn't seem a lot to me before they start paying the additional tax. I wish i could have made them see sense and follow a more vocational route but hey ho you cannot kill their dreams.

The Government will have to review the model because this country is not going to have plentiful high earning jobs going forward. Losing polytechnics was a sad loss in the race downwards for this country.

Individuals can also achieve a degree whilst in employment which surely has to be the best option.

The world is mad but this country takes the biscuit. Why do we continue to let the establishment reinforce the idea that Academic qualifications are the gold standard?

 

[Langtoftlad]

indeed

If you're that bothered - I can ask the question of my elder sister...
who was until retirement Dean of Learning and Teaching at Liverpool Hope University and is Professor Emeritus of Pedagogical Research.

My expertise was serving tea or coffee, chicken or beef on my way to an exotic beach destination. A degree in the University of Life ...
But her side of the family, academia dripping from their pores.

 

[Abacist]

I've signed it, mainly because the £9,000 price is socially divisive, and prevents social mobility. Many poorer families cannot possibly afford the fees. I also think that young people should not start their careers with a huge debt hanging over them.

When I see University Chancellors pocketing salaries of £600,000 plus I think it obscene.

Everyone should have equal opportunity to use their talents and hard work to improve their lot, regardless of their parents wealth.

I am sure that if you could see a graph of vice-chancellors salaries straddling the year when fees were introduced you will see something like a Covid graph where the virus is taking off. The £9k per annum fees were supposed to be a maximum annual charge for the top universities but they all jumped on the bandwagon straight away even if they were jumped up polytechnic universities! Trouble is its all being fed by too much demand!

I did a 4 year training contract, like an apprenticeship, to become a chartered accountant. We used to say "never employ anyone with a university degree in accountancy as they will spend all day debating how to do something rather than just getting on with it!" We got paid less than other people but was plenty as a youngster whilst training from 18 to 22. Work during the day study at night and party at weekends!

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[Encantador]

Daughter in law chose Media Studies because it was easier than the other options, openly admits this and also that she had no intention or interest in working in that area. When she went for jobs, no one was the slightest bit interested in her degree.

Eventually had to get another degree via the OU to become a primary school teacher. She has debts from both.

 

[Langtoftlad]

As for University chancellors they are often figureheads, big names.
Ceremonial & ambassadorial roles
It is the 'Vice' Chancellors who earn the big bucks, they are de-facto CEO's of a large organisation, which like it or loathe it, has to balance the books... generate enough income to cover the costs of staffing, property & esoteric research.

Much like the salaries of big name charities, they have to run on sound business footings and thus the top bod can command a high salary.

 

[MisterB]

i may have come over as a little bit frustrated by some with the posts i made earlier, especially in relation to the first party year of university and it being a place where they learn to learn etc - what a load of fish wallop !

i dont apologise

our eldest did a history degree - she has been teaching history for the last 8 years ( i think ..) she was the first tranche who had to pay £1500 per year, which we had to pay

our other daughter did a degree in media and journalism - she has been teaching media and journalism for around 5 years now - that cost us 4500 per year (from memory), which we had to pay

its a licence to print money (some would even class it is a tax on middle and high earners)

all higher education should be free, but there should be less of it and less of a requirement to have it !!! as someone has suggested, it has now become the normal aspiration/expectation to go to uni, BUT ... in my opinion it should be the normal aspiration/expectation to continue education and not necessarily through university

as a suggestion, why not offer an alternative of free uni places to those over 25, who should take an entrance exam to be allowed a free place - why do we openly allow and encourage very young adults to place themselves in such high debts at such an early time of their lives - under the current system we are not offering a real alternative to paying for university and the reality is that irrespective of the number of signatures a petition gets - paying for higher education will continue as long as the demand exists for it

 

[Langtoftlad]

all higher education should be free

Why?
All education up to the age of majority - 18 - is notionally free.
Why should the taxpayer fund further education after this?
When essentially it is a choice for the individual, whether to go, what to study etc.

If University was compulsory, like school, then you might have a point.
But if it were, then that would only serve to dilute further an already weakened brand.

 

[Howard B]

I couldn’t agree more for what I’d call proper degrees.

For the other “plastic” ones double or treble the fees

I would agree with the first bit. We have a number of people at our place who have degrees and are working alongside someone with no qualifications doing manual work for the logistics team. I do feel sorry for them, as someone must have sold the dream to them in the past. It seems 3 or 4 years wasted for some of these kids.
A bit off topic, but there was a post earlier about supermarket checkouts becoming automated. That is already happening in construction and I suspect in 20 or 30 years a significant number of manual jobs wont exist. There could be real social problems in the not too distant when automation replaces the majority of current occupations.

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[suavecarve]

Our VC had a salary of £314,000 (17/18 figures) for looking after a Uni with 16,500 students and around 1600 staff now. He is one of only 150 people who have double highly cited academics in the world and the University contributes 1.7 Billion to the UK economy.

We have 59 staff earning between 100-175,000. Our VC took a drop in pay to come to our Uni. One of the first things he did was bring in a donation of £1,000,000 from an associate.

Now if this chap was out in the real world running a corporation with 1.7 Billion turnover, how much would he be worth considering he paid his first 3 years wages within about a fortnight of turning up ?

Whats more is he is a thoroughly decent chap.

 

[Ivory55]

The cynical side of me thinks nobody drops a million for nothing, they have to have an angle, a knighthood ?

 

[Langtoftlad]

The cynical side of me thinks nobody drops a million for nothing, they have to have an angle, a knighthood ?

There comes a point when salary is just keeping score - and obviously you want to be paid your worth, and have a lifestyle to maintain - but you're at a point in your life when you want to do something 'worthwhile'.
PS. Nowhere was dropping a million in salary mentioned.

 

[suavecarve]

The cynical side of me thinks nobody drops a million for nothing, they have to have an angle, a knighthood ?

Our VC is good but he aint no Queen.

There are some billionaire philanthropists out there. Oxbridge get donations like this because of their alumni. Our Uni is very young (50 years old) and started very small so not many of our alumni have made that sort of money to donate back

 

[Ivory55]

There comes a point when salary is just keeping score - and obviously you want to be paid your worth, and have a lifestyle to maintain - but you're at a point in your life when you want to do something 'worthwhile'.
PS. Nowhere was dropping a million in salary mentioned.

Dropping/donation

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[Ivory55]

Our VC is good but he aint no Queen.

There are some billionaire philanthropists out there. Oxbridge get donations like this because of their alumni. Our Uni is very young (50 years old) and started very small so not many of our alumni have made that sort of money to donate back

I am still in the nobody does something for nothing camp.

 

[Astro]

Will I get a refund of £6250 for each of the 4 YEARS my son was at uni if I sign ?

 

[Langtoftlad]

I am still in the nobody does something for nothing camp.

So all the local ground level charity workers have an ulterior motive?
Just a question of scale.

Some people are just good.

 

[Coolcats]

Will I get a refund of £6250 for each of the 4 YEARS my son was at uni if I sign ?

Probably not but maybe you shouldn’t ha e been asked to do this in the first place. If I am being cynical university could be considered as a way of keeping the youth gainfully employed at the expense of the parents instead of the state. (Just another form of taxation).

 

[MisterB]

Why?
All education up to the age of majority - 18 - is notionally free.
Why should the taxpayer fund further education after this?
When essentially it is a choice for the individual, whether to go, what to study etc.

If University was compulsory, like school, then you might have a point.
But if it were, then that would only serve to dilute further an already weakened brand.

Please don't just pick bits out of my post, I did add a qualification to that comment, which you chose to ignore for some reason and the quote you attribute to me is then taken out of context ..

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[Coolcats]

If you're that bothered - I can ask the question of my elder sister...
who was until retirement Dean of Learning and Teaching at Liverpool Hope University and is Professor Emeritus of Pedagogical Research.

My expertise was serving tea or coffee, chicken or beef on my way to an exotic beach destination. A degree in the University of Life ...
But her side of the family, academia dripping from their pores.

I suspect you may be proud of your sisters achievements. As an OU student there were plenty of amazing individuals who never attained A levels plasters, bricklayers , even a RAF navigator the bit about all of us being there is because we wanted to, we wanted to learn, we were curious interested and worked hard to complete the course. Holding a full time job and studying, reading on a train studying and doing assignments until the early hours of the morning. Submitting assignments and sitting exams is very challenging. So again I will say education should be available to all who choose it and there is no disrespect from me for anyone who has chosen not to go along this path.

 

[Tombola]

the majority who ever even pay the student loan back is very small.
And university isnt the be all and end all.

Lots of folk go to uni now just for the the jolly up.
meanwhile loads of people get jobs and pay their own way in life early and get a head start £££

 

[Coolcats]

the majority who ever even pay the student loan back is very small

Do you have a source for that?

 

[Tombola]

Do you have a source for that?

look it up, it is everywhere.
My source are my family and my good friend who is a College facilitator.
do you have a source that proves its not true.

tell me the benefits to the education system & students of reducing it to 3000

 

[Langtoftlad]

suspect you may be proud of your sisters achievements. As an OU student there were plenty of amazing individuals

You're correct - and indeed my Sis was a OU supervisor and an external examiner.
So personal bias aside, I believe you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is/was more radical in her approach to opening paths.

I've asked her the question, I'll be interested in her reply.

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