Petition to Reduce University student tuition fees from £9250 to £3000

[SpeedyDux]

The other trend that should be taken into account is the impact of AI and automation on jobs.

It is estimated that up to 50% of traditional white collar jobs will disappear. Especially any jobs involving collecting, processing, and communicating information. Administration too.

Best train young people how to mend robots instead.

 

[Langtoftlad]

 

[Coolcats]

Added to that, a valueless degree is deemed worth £27000 (over 3 years). Until reality strikes when the graduate tries to find a job commensurate with their supposed qualification.

I was shocked when I found out that the local Uni was accepting students who had failed their A-levels. It was quite obvious that the students in the multiple occupation houses near mine were there for the "experience" and doing precious little studying. At that time the tuition fees were £3000 p.a. so that wasn't any kind of incentive to be a bookworm.

So, I won't be signing the petition either. The problem is that there are too many Uni degree places available and too few students with real academic ability and inclination to get a worthwhile qualification. The better solution is to cut back on so-called higher education and expand vocational training instead.

Don't be shocked, I am one of those who's School would not me take CSE's let alone GCE's or A Levels, place your bias to one side, there are plenty of examples where individuals failed at School (or rather the school system failed them). Once I was engaged with learning and I found that the Maths involved with my Vehicle technicians course was 'A'Level I realised learning for me was context and I was not as stupid as the school made me (and others) out to be. I now hold 4 Degrees one is an undergrad and the other 3 are post graduate, I have been really fortunate to have undertaken the learning I have. Today I would not be able to to undertake the courses I have as they are just too expensive.

When you talk about Valuless degrees what exactly are these? if they have meaning for an individual its no one else's business to say that are Valuless.

 

[Ivory55]

The other trend that should be taken into account is the impact of AI and automation on jobs.

It is estimated that up to 50% of traditional white collar jobs will disappear. Especially any jobs involving collecting, processing, and communicating information. Administration too.

Best train young people how to mend robots instead.

Reckon you’re right robots are coming. Self driving trucks, tractors already steer across fields on their own. Once it’s all perfected they will work 24/7 not worried about bank holidays or kids need looking after etc. A lot of jobs will be going.

 

[2x2camper]

Depends on the Student's personal and family circumstances whether you think its a burden or not.

The tuition fees are not dependent on family circumstances as they are paid on earning by the student after they leave.

The loan to live on is another matter entirely and I would agree is dependent on family income

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Camdoon]

I've signed it, mainly because the £9,000 price is socially divisive, and prevents social mobility. Many poorer families cannot possibly afford the fees. I also think that young people should not start their careers with a huge debt hanging over them.

When I see University Chancellors pocketing salaries of £600,000 plus I think it obscene.

Everyone should have equal opportunity to use their talents and hard work to improve their lot, regardless of their parents wealth.

No charges in Scotland but it is the poor who miss out as the middle class know how to take advantage of the system. English system which is less constrained is fairer and has better outcomes in that respect.

 

[MisterB]

Universities used to be academia for academia's sake - not to train anybody for a real life career - that's why medical degrees are taught at "Schools" within Universities.

To learn how to learn, to learn how to think, and learn how to research and write up the results in an academic environment - not for any practical purpose but to enrich the student's mind. In a true University, you are not taught subject matter, but given guidance & support to 'teach' yourself.

Of course, in modern times, that interpretation has widened due to financial, political & equality pressure... and IMV has diluted the purity of the "brand".

A University should not be for all, but for only the very best minds.
Of course, there is a practical issue that wealth shouldn't be a bar.

i dont disagree with the sentiments, but surely learning how to learn and learning how to think should be taught at school, not wait until they are 19 years of age ......

 

[SpeedyDux]

Don't be shocked, I am one of those who's School would not me take CSE's let alone GCE's or A Levels, place your bias to one side, there are plenty of examples where individuals failed at School (or rather the school system failed them). Once I was engaged with learning and I found that the Maths involved with my Vehicle technicians course was 'A'Level I realised learning for me was context and I was not as stupid as the school made me (and others) out to be. I now hold 4 Degrees one is an undergrad and the other 3 are post graduate, I have been really fortunate to have undertaken the learning I have. Today I would not be able to to undertake the courses I have as they are just too expensive.

When you talk about Valuless degrees what exactly are these? if they have meaning for an individual its no one else's business to say that are Valuless.

Valueless perhaps to a future employer. They have every right to be picky.

Here's an off-the-wall example. I was told you can get a law degree from Oxford based entirely on Roman law. Fine if you only want to teach Roman Law, which is rather niche. If you want to qualify as a Barrister or Solicitor you would have to start from scratch learning the enormous subject that is the laws of England and Wales. Based on Common Law and statute, not Roman law, even though some Latin maxims were traditional shorthand for complex legal principles.

 

[Ivory55]

i dont disagree with the sentiments, but surely learning how to learn and learning how to think should be taught at school, not wait until they are 19 years of age ......

They are busy at the school teaching how to use a knife and fork or potty training. Haha

 

[MC 55 FUN]

Not the point, around 10 years ago the Open University was around £640 for a Unit (60 points) which meant a degree undertaken for £3800, Today in England the cost is £3600 per unit or £18,576 for a degree .

If you happen to live in Wales the Open University costs £1,032 or £6,192 some £12,000 Less

It should not just be those with Money who can afford eduction

That's not an answer to my question.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Spriddler]

The old days of a uni degree meaning you would expect to have higher earnings are long gone. It is a burden that families and their children should not have to face.

So why do they choose to go to Uni and burden themselves and their family with debt?

 

[Nirvanauk]

It’s ok saying they don’t have to pay it back until earning £25k but it is accruing interest at around 6% and that I find disgusting. Just had to put our son through Uni for the second time to be a paramedic. Loves the job but we are out of pocket by around £45k. So no home in the sun for us then. this is not a moan as we are so proud of what he is doing.

 

[Shaun929]

So why do they choose to go to Uni and burden themselves and family with debt?

Because nearly all jobs require a degree now

 

[Ivory55]

Because nearly all jobs require a degree now

May be we should be asking why

 

[Shaun929]

It’s not just the £9000 course fee it’s the all the accommodation costs as well. I have two girls both at uni one in last year the other in first year. It’s costing me over 9 grand a year in digs for both. The youngest one has not had one face to face lecture yet all done on line because of COVID

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Spriddler]

Because nearly all jobs require a degree now

I think it's that there are far more graduates looking for jobs than the number of jobs that necessitate graduates. Hence graduates are working at basic jobs at minimum wage in McD's, Amazon, 'Spoons, as leaflet deliverers etc. as they are the only ones that are available in quantity.
Gap years in Australia or S. America or to study head massage in Phnom Pehn are out of the question now so they're having to look for work.

 

[Coolcats]

That's not an answer to my question.

Its not exactly a difficult question to which you 'know' the answer, but in a united Kingdom all should have access to the same education at the same cost, clearly Wales and Scotland see the value in supporting individuals who wish to attend University which is a different view held in England.

 

[2x2camper]

It’s ok saying they don’t have to pay it back until earning £25k but it is accruing interest at around 6% and that I find disgusting. Just had to put our son through Uni for the second time to be a paramedic. Loves the job but we are out of pocket by around £45k. So no home in the sun for us then. this is not a moan as we are so proud of what he is doing.

How are you out of pocket? Its their debt not yours.

Currently got one doing nursing

 

[Coolcats]

It’s ok saying they don’t have to pay it back until earning £25k but it is accruing interest at around 6% and that I find disgusting. Just had to put our son through Uni for the second time to be a paramedic. Loves the job but we are out of pocket by around £45k. So no home in the sun for us then. this is not a moan as we are so proud of what he is doing.

It’s not just the £9000 course fee it’s the all the accommodation costs as well. I have two girls both at uni one in last year the other in first year. It’s costing me over 9 grand a year in digs for both. The youngest one has not had one face to face lecture yet all done on line because of COVID

You both sound like good parents and must be proud of your youngsters and is exactly why I posted the petition, I think you may agree that whilst no-one expects these things for nothing it needs to be at a cost that most can afford without impacting future debt as the youngsters start out in life having to get mortgages pay rent raise thier families

 

[MisterB]

perhaps companies ask for uni degrees because the people they employ to do their selection process also have a university degree and therefore think its essential or dont really understand how to undertake a proper selection process and use it as an easy sift ...

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Spriddler]

I do wonder whether leaving Uni with a huge debt and the the opportunity to avoid/delay paying it back encourages youngsters to be ambivalent about taking on further debt or credit?

 

[James-Alex]

And therein lies the problem. Univerities are now money-making businesses masquerading as learning centres.

They 100% are yes. Mate of mines a food and bev manager at local one. He never works eves or weekends and salary is great. Don’t get me started on the person that runs the whole place. She’s on hundreds of thousands a year and does nothing. Often in the local press. Sort out the stupid salaries and then you can sort the prices out

 

[Charlie57]

Reckon you’re right robots are coming. Self driving trucks, tractors already steer across fields on their own. Once it’s all perfected they will work 24/7 not worried about bank holidays or kids need looking after etc. A lot of jobs will be going.

Started with self service petrol pumps, took a while but its now in supermarkets...........

 

[Gromett]

There are two options when it comes to Degrees. Make them available to everyone and charge. Limit them to the academic cream and fund them from the public purse.
It is a straight forward choice. Whilst ever we have degrees in Media, Drama, Politics and other non technical subjects the people taking them should pay for them and the loan system as currently set up is probably one of the better ways.

My choice would be to cut all the duff courses and be harsh about it and make university free again for those who meet the high academic requirements. The money saved should be pushed into colleges and tech colleges with full funding for all students studying the trades.

However, I can't see that happening. So in the meantime I would like to see the loan system scrapped and moved to a tax code which is added to everyone who goes to university. 1% per year attended payable on the standard and higher rates of income. But if they did this they would have to link the personal allowance to the minimum wage.

 

[Gromett]

took a while but its now in supermarkets...........

Supermarkets will get rid of self serve checkouts within 10 years...




And manned ones. There will be cameras covering the stores and the shelves, and as you put an item in your basket/bag it will automatically be tallied. Then when you leave the shop the payment will be automatically taken. Amazon already have a system like this in place in their small shops.
Can't say I am thrilled with the idea, but that is the way it will go for most supermarkets.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TDub49]

I wonder how many of the people saying that they are not going to sign benefitted from "free" further and higher education back in the day - and are now comfortable retired on pensions that could only be a dream for today's young people? There's an old saying that goes along the lines of "you can tell a country's investment in its future by its investment in its children and young people" - that's why I will be signing.

 

[Ivory55]

Supermarkets will get rid of self serve checkouts within 10 years...




And manned ones. There will be cameras covering the stores and the shelves, and as you put an item in your basket/bag it will automatically be tallied. Then when you leave the shop the payment will be automatically taken. Amazon already have a system like this in place in their small shops.
Can't say I am thrilled with the idea, but that is the way it will go for most supermarkets.

All these jobs going will mean a lot of Cannon fodder available.

 

[Langtoftlad]

i dont disagree with the sentiments, but surely learning how to learn and learning how to think should be taught at school, not wait until they are 19 years of age ......

I don't particularly disagree - perhaps 6th form is the beginning of the transition from being taught and learning how to learn?
There are some basic unavoidable mechanics to be mastered before progressing - like learning how to read...
At school, textbooks are read and the contents accepted as fact.
At university you should be given the freedom to challenge those 'facts' and/or be inspired to find new ones.

The problem with starting advanced academia too young is that at 18/19 the brain is still developing... 25 is when full brain maturity usually occurs.
So this is the golden window opportunity for pure University attendance

IMHO a University degree shouldn't qualify you to do anything - except perhaps further academic study.
Everything else - even if undertaken in a University environment - is simply training.

 

[busby]

Just think about this the next time your flying or driving about the engineers, scientists who have made your journey safe, of course not everyone wishes to go to university, when I started out as a vehicle technician I went to college and valued my City and Guilds.........but it is still education. an Undergrad degree will cost best part of £30K a Masters add another £10K add a Phd will cost you around another £12K so that's £52K in tuition fees add to that all the other costs and it makes you wonder why people wish to undertake this. Education should be an enabler in life not saddle an individual and thier family with huge debts

Fully agree if your talking about valued degrees,,many modern ones are not worth the paper they are written on,,Media studies,,,Just look at the awful quality of tv programs now.. City and Guilds was brilliant and when you think the majority of study for that was day release and night school. BUSBY.

 

[Coolcats]

A University should not be for all, but for only the very best minds.
Of course, there is a practical issue that wealth shouldn't be a bar.

So how are you going to asses who has the ‘best minds’ given that there are many who are classed in the school system as ‘failures’ ? There are many examples where individuals go on to be expert (best minds) in there field.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}