Payload

[The Coops]

I am not advocating that we should break the law but given the fact that there are 20,000 police officers less than 2015 and that on average each Police force has between 8 and 15 officers qualified to weigh vehicles and that given natural wastage it would seem that there exist about 30 police officers for the whole of Britain and Wales ( Scotland is another matter) who are qualified to pull you over and direct you to a weighbridge within 10 miles of where they are operating from unless they have a mobile dynamic weighbridge in which case it narrows it down even further............The basic rule is be sensible and make sure that if you are ever pulled you can reduce your weight dramatically 1kg for each litre of water or fuel ..........boot out the Mrs and the dog and all the accessories that you must take on trips............fill in the gaps at your own peril!!! most vans will be well under MPW ( Max permissible weight) Those who are caught are probably the ones whose rear axle is dragging on the road..........Balance the load and look at the level of the van........from the horse's mouth so so speak that is what gets you pulled over, if your van looks unbalanced because its either front or rear end heavy then a *tug* is inevitable as its an easy *process* (prosecution) with a guilty plea. If you are pulled over dump the water and waste asap on the grounds that you were looking for somewhere environmentally friendly to dispose of it, a legitimate excuse, get the pushbike etc out of the boot on the grounds that there are only used on your destination, dump the passengers on the grounds that the trains were on strike and voila under weight.............on a serious note it is your insurance company that would be looking at every way out of paying up if you were involved in an accident and you were found to be overweight it is the perfect get out for them, your chances of being pulled by the old bill are less than winning the lottery!
1, Find out the max load for your van, its on your plating certificate usually under the bonnet
2. Find and go to a weighbridge most Local authorities have them usually near the tips Get van weighed on each axle and overall its around £10 and keep the certificate
3. Investigate the cost/feasibility of up-plating the van from 3500kgs if you are under 70 its a no brainier as the road tax is only £165 a year, less than the cost of a medical or driving test to upgrade!
4. Your van or base vehicle would have originally have been designed in the first instance for loads up to between 3500 kgs and 7500 kgs it is your licence entitlement that restricts you.
5. Be sensible and spread the load don't pile everything on the rear axle.
6 Wait for it..........fit commercial van tyres.............just check on the load rating before you do....Motorhome tyres are usually rated for higher speeds, commercial tyres for loading. If pulled show the officer your weight certificate ............something must be wrong with the weighbridge as you are responsible enough to ensure that you are within the limits

Last but not least if pulled eat humble pie and 9 times out of 10 no action if perceived as a genuine mistake, advice given remedy on the spot (see fuel water and wife!) And if prosecuted bad luck as must be down on targets for day , which they NEVER have!

And wait for * I knew someone who or my mate was, or I was only going to* ...............the odds on being done in a motorhome for being overweight are less than winning on the National Lottery you are not a priority for VOSA or the Police it is overweight LGVs that they are after for the damage they cause to the roads not Mr and Mrs Joe Public on their holidays
I refer to my opening statement I am not advocating that we break the law but there you have it!

 

[The Coops]

Devils Advocate !

 

[Larrynwin]

Payload, payload, what’s payload.

Only the Very old-mo TypeFellaPerson would understand.

AND, before any of uze get yours calcuminlators out, the maths 8.3lbs/gal is a dam colonial American gallon.

View attachment 361683

Nice to see that US RV producers indicate recommended payload. I remember my Four Winds Siesta RV also had a max payload label in addition to the GVW , GTW and axle weights.
As mentioned on here many times European manufacturers should do this.

 

[gus-lopez]

All very interesting but who has ever been pulled over for a weight check? It seems that the intercepts are aimed more at overweight LGV's than motorhomes....Can we have an honest straw poll of who has ever been weight checked in a m/home and then work out what % you have of being done, depending on where overweight is and the% that is within permissible allowance used to be 5% over to the Funsters!

Me. 14th December on way home .About an hour north of Bordeaux on N10. He was elated that I was 800kgs under maximum, I couldn't have given a **** as I knew the chances of being anywhere near maximum was impossible.
Having said that on my way home today & with friends in van I'm converting I thought I'd see how bad it was so far. Still had 720kgs to go so take them out the equation & I have 877kgs.Even adding in water, boiler & my tools will only add around 200kgs as most of the rest is already installed. I'm even thinking of uprating to the max I can paper wise here which if allowed gets me another 650kgs I won't be needing

 

[HUGGY]

Should payload be the most important feature when buying a motorhome? Many have bought without the slightest knowledge of what it is and the implications it brings. Should dealers give this a higher priority when selling.

Payload is all important. Don't rely on dealers though, they just want to sell you a van not make sure your legal in it. As with most things in life .... research everything.

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[Googlebot]

I always carry the weighbridge certificate in the glove box.

I don’t overload deliberately and always try and be sensible. If we are slightly over, it will be a legal issue and not a safety one as it’s a 3850KG chassis and tyres plated to 3500KG.

The chances of a Police Officer or VOSA taking the time to weigh me after production of a recent weighbridge ticket showing I am under and being 100% cooperative with all their questions are slim to none.

As others have said, if the vehicle is on the bump stops, obviously overweight, you deserve all you get.

 

[Tony50]

As an ex haulier payload was 1st on the list, overweight vans are harder to drive, less safe and of course illegal. I don't understand how manufacturers can market vans with 300kg pay load, might be ok for a weekend away but far too restrictive to use the MH in the real world. IMO Don't forget the axle weights, it might be ok all up but often rear axles are overloaded, this causes the brake bias to over brake the rear, expensive! Pads and discs take a hammering.

Totally agree when I use to Spec. Brewery vehicles I had to go to nearly the legally 60 percent rear axle overhang to be Legal on all axles and overall weight due a load that diminishes on the 2 axle truck , the other thing is as you move your load or it diminishes in certain places in the Motorhome ,say less fuel or water being carried at different times on your travels it shifts the load on one or the other axles, or both axles , so it always pays to have a vehicle that never reaches it's total weight to try to avoid this, I don't particularly like having to run a 4.4 tonne vehicle and having to have a medical every 3 years

 

[GWAYGWAY]

I was panicking not long ago as I was worried about the medical to keep my C1E, I, however, passed it and got my licence renewed for three years, so not a worry.
However, I did buy my MLI because it was a 3500kg model, but it turned out it was not what it seemed.
The basic model with nothing extra might be but the extras did add up very quickly from the unusable to the adequate. We weighed it with some fuel and little water, a few foodstuffs, and an empty garage. It was 3520kgs weighed at a grain storage company at Hythe., 20 kg over but near enough. It was already plated at 3860kgs so a bit of leeway, but when it gained a few items like a telly, spare wheel, jack and toolbox, it crept upwards. So I replated it to the maximum allowed at 4200kgs to allow the little bike in the back along with an allowance for sod's law. I was out this weekend and passing the Portslade weighing checkpoint I drove over the self tester bridge, The both axles were 1580 and 2390 front and back giving a total of 3970, the plate gives me 1940 and 2490 respectively. This was no bike and little in it of note, so where did the weight creep up to that level?????? I had to do two trips over as the first one said 'too fast'. I was wondering if the dynamic sensor weighbridges have less accuracy. I will now have to go back to Hythe and check it there again. I looked at the possibility of dropping the gross back down and it required so many things removing that it was not possible. The whole thing is a nightmare, even all our local ambulances are 4400kg on the same chassis and I look at some of the young drivers and wondered if they really had gone all through the C licence farce of driving a lorry and doing the legal testing for the commercial vehicles with tachographs and loading rules etc. Not the older ones with grandfather rights and C1E on the licence but they will be running out of those soon.
As a side have you ever noticed the number od 3500kg commercial vans driven all over [usual Polish, Romanian and Bulgarian] Flashing along with no hours rules and restrictions, and no tachographs on board. All of those look to my judgement to be quite large and heavy tilt bodies so would only be allowed very little leeway for a load but seem to be full up with goods.
Cock up all over is the conclusion I make

 

[The Coops]

Ah time to reveal some secrets
Intercept points for weighing vehicles are manned either by VOSA, DOT or the Police equivalent for each EU country.
They are usually located between three to five exit junctions apart on the highway if they meet the following criteria.........
There must be on the approach on either carriageway a substantial incline that has an overbridge or dominant viewpoint over the carriageway,
A spotter will sit on this bridge/aire/viewpoint and radio through to the motorcyclists/traffic cars the reg no and description of a suspect overweight vehicle.
Yes that is what the platforms on the side of the motorway are for.
What makes it suspect?
Belching out black diesel smoke under load
45mph or less on the incline
All weight supposedly on one axle i.e looks unbalanced
How long does it take to accelerate away from the toll booth/join carriageway pass another vehicle?
Where is vehicle registered ..............No racist comments but certain countries and operators from *Boarder states* will risk it on the understanding that as we don't speak English/French /German etc we don't prosecute ( wrong, a translator will be in court before you!)
I stand by my first post if in a motorhome and pulled, unlucky or bad weight distribution! They are more interested in LGVs way over weight than someone bimbling along in a motorhome BUT if it looks wrong the way it sits on the road and struggles on inclines then it probably is wrong and an easy process as no multi national company to bail you out or provide support.
Be sensible and make sure you can accelerate without black smoke on inclines. If not fall in with LGV's
I could reveal more but would not get past the end of my driveway without being cited for various road traffic infringements
If you have been pulled, work out the topography within 15 miles /20kms of your stop yep it now makes sense....................and for our friends in the Netherlands the target areas are where the speed limit changes by 20kph or more, yep it makes sense as we all put our big foot down when we can.
*Trade secrets over*

And now wait !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rds559]

Use to weigh ours regularly but don't bother with current van as fully loaded with full tanks we have 300 kg spare on each axle and 300 kg spare on the gross.

Lucky you we only have 315kg total put mrs dog food we are over weight

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[Jim]

Lucky you we only have 315kg total put mrs dog food we are over weight

We are going to do our best so others don't get caught like you have. This graphic will appear in most issues of our magazine, hopefully it will get shared across the internet too.

 

[Lenny HB]

We are going to do our best so others don't get caught like you have. This graphic will appear in most issues of our magazine, hopefully it will get shared across the internet too.

View attachment 362700

I like it Jim but it should say 395kg after all fitted extras.
395kg over MIRO is nowhere near enough.

 

[Lenny HB]

Lucky you we only have 315kg total put mrs dog food we are over weight

I would class that as not fit for purpose.

 

[Jim]

I like it Jim but it should say 395kg after all fitted extras.
395kg over MIRO is nowhere near enough.

Not for you but it is the Average

 

[Lenny HB]

Not for you but it is the Average

But you can easily have 200 kg of factory and dealer fitted extras leaving only 195kg.
395kg may be usable on a Brit van but most continental vans you can't buy in basic form and need at the minimum a couple of the extras packs that's a 150kg gone.

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[Jim]

But you can easily have 200 kg of factory and dealer fitted extras leaving only 195kg.

Of course, which is why we are telling an average couple that they will need approx 395 kg. OF AVAILABLE PAYLOAD. So they won't buy the van with only 195 kg left

 

[Rds559]

We have 315 kg we are always over weight

 

[PeteH]

The UK is signatory to the International Treaties unless it wishes to rescind from those, in which case its licences will not be accepted, even if one applies for an IDP.

So what use would the licence over 3500g be except in UK?

I think the US did not sign, or did not ratify the Treaties, so I do not know what US drivers do outside USA.

Geoff

They drive on their Local Licence. As do/did I when in the USA. My R-V Registered in Houston, was 9t but it was acceptable on my UK driver licence. My insurers Knew about it, it was declared, I do Have a Texas licence in fact, But the only benefit was a reduction in the insurance premium.
I have, like others, hired vehicles on a UK licence in The USA, Spain and Portugal. My son Hires them here, He uses his Texas Licence.
Bottom Line IMV. The B / B1 should cover ANY non commercial vehicle up to 4T.

All very interesting but who has ever been pulled over for a weight check? It seems that the intercepts are aimed more at overweight LGV's than motorhomes....Can we have an honest straw poll of who has ever been weight checked in a m/home and then work out what % you have of being done, depending on where overweight is and the% that is within permissible allowance used to be 5% over to the Funsters!

Never been pulled in Either the motorhome nor the R-V that since 1995Ish. Have been "asked" to put an LGV on the scales (where the A38 joins the A5). No problem I was light. Some guys I know who do Sound and Light for Festivals where pulled (A1) Well overweight (those big speakers alone weigh a ton.) Had to wait while one van went to base offloaded and came back. The value of the "kit" is phenomenal an no one wants to leave it. Heavy fines all round.

 

[gus-lopez]

Mine was overweight empty & standing outside looking at it. Of the more than 2 dozen interested in purchasing it not one asked about weight. that's in spain though.

 

[Lenny HB]

Of course, which is why we are telling an average couple that they will need approx 395 kg. OF AVAILABLE PAYLOAD. So they won't buy the van with only 195 kg left

Unfortunately newbies and the uninformed don't realise the fitted extras reduce the payload and the dealer won't tell them.

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[PeteH]

This payload issue, will run and run. IMV the "Industry" have probably got the most "clout". But persuading them would take a concerted action by many, many prospective purchasers asking for "payload" figures, making it an Issue, and walking away.

As a scenario. which I doubt would happen, IF everyone who walks up to a motorhome at (say) NEC for example was to ask the head of sales, in the loudest voice "what is the payload, can I drive it on a "B" licence and will you warrant that reply with a full money back guarantee" ?. That could be the start of a revolution, BUT I will not hold my Breath.

 

[Jim]

Unfortunately newbies and the uninformed don't realise the fitted extras reduce the payload and the dealer won't tell them.

What items are you talking about that we are not already including in the average?. The average we came to after weeks of back and forth and opinions that this is the average weigh of stuff people had fitted and carried.

 

[Pausim]

I think the solution starts with the consumers understanding the problem and demanding the information. The FUN graphic is a good start but perhaps needs to be followed up regularly with explanations of how payload is quickly eaten up by factory fitted extras, dealer extras and owner extras before people and luggage are deducted. I am sure that most purchasers see an advertised payload figure and think of it as their luggage allowance.

 

[Jim]

explanations of how payload is quickly eaten up by factory fitted extras,

I don't think there is a problem there. Most makers show the precise weight of the optional extras and explain how it will eat into the payload.

The problem is that many people have no idea of how much payload they will need, even if they give it a thought. So when they see a family van with a 400kg payload they don't know if that is good or bad. If they were aware, they would discount a lot of vans as unsuitable for their needs.

 

[Two on Tour]

I think my basic "what if" and "you never know" tool kit comes in at at least 15kg and driver, half as much again.

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[Jim]

I think my basic "what if" and "you never know" tool kit comes in at at least 15kg and driver, half as much again.

Yes and Lenny will be on to say he needs 900kg or nothing but we are talking about the average payload just so some people who are unaware can get a handle on it.

Of the 100 people we weighed last year the majority were within their limits, and most were fully loaded ready for 4 days away and full of water. Most of those who were under their max weight were in 3.5t MAM vans utilising less than 500 kg of payload.

 

[Two on Tour]

Is there the likelihood of van weighing again at the Peterborough show this year Jim ?

I have been carting around 36kg of towbar for the last two years which which has not been used so I have taken the main element of that off until it's needed.
Did a practise run and four bolts and 1/4 hour to get it back on, so it will stay off for the mean time.

 

[Jim]

Is there the likelihood of van weighing again at the Peterborough show this year Jim ?

I have been carting around 36kg of towbar for the last two years which which has not been used so I have taken the main element of that off until it's needed.
Did a practise run and four bolts and 1/4 hour to get it back on, so it will stay off for the mean time.

Yes we are weighing again at Peterborough on the Thursday

 

[Two on Tour]

Yes we are weighing again at Peterborough on the Thursday

Damn it, we arrive Friday morning.

 

[2657]

Bottom Line IMV. The B / B1 should cover ANY non commercial vehicle up to 4T.

Why 4T and not 4.5T, 5T, 5.5T.............line needs to be drawn somewhere

Why non commercial vehicles? 4T is 4T whether commercial or not.

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