Payload

[Larby]

It is OK to drive vans up to 4.25 tonnes if electric on normal car licence (there will be certain rules to be met).
Therefore to suit government the rules can be amended.

 

[Lenny HB]

What items are you talking about that we are not already including in the average?. The average we came to after weeks of back and forth and opinions that this is the average weigh of stuff people had fitted and carried.

You don't appear to have made any allowance for the fact that 90% of vans leave the factory 100 - 150 kg over their design weight, which most punters are unaware of.

You can't buy a Hymer without this pack (65kg), then you need to add to that other items such as TV, Stereo, TecTower oven or even a bigger fridge on a lot of models, Then you need to add solar panels etc.

With a Carthago you need at least these 2 packs (91kg), & you still have no TV, stereo etc., Also don't forget to add 130kg as most Carthago's are ex-works that much over design weight.

 

[2657]

It is OK to drive vans up to 4.25 tonnes if electric on normal car licence (there will be certain rules to be met).
Therefore to suit government the rules can be amended.

View attachment 362804

5 hours of certified training necessary though, which seems a sensible compromise.

 

[Jim]

You can't buy a Hymer without this pack (65kg), then you need to add to that other items such as TV, Stereo, TecTower oven or even a bigger fridge on a lot of models, Then you need to add solar panels etc.

Which is why you need to be aware of what your average payload might be, and we've included solar within, as the majority add it.

 

[Stretto Boy]

I have improved the payload of our motorhome by over 20 Kg. How?

I joined Slimming World

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[Lenny HB]

Which is why you need to be aware of what your average payload might be, and we've included solar within, as the majority add it.

I missed the solar bit.
You don't appear to want to advise buyers that the van is most likely to over the brochure weight before they start adding anything.

It really bugs me manufacturers deliberately produce vans that are consistently overweight by the same amount, Carthago's for example are nearly always 130kg over give or take a couple of kg, you can't put that down to building tolerances. All done so they can claim more payload. Hymer are one of the few exceptions there vans generaly are very close to the brochure weight.

 

[Jim]

You don't appear to want to advise buyers that the van is most likely to over the brochure weight before they start adding anything.

Apart from the 5% fudge I've no hard evidence to suggest that is the case.

 

[Lenny HB]

Apart from the 5% fudge I've no hard evidence to suggest that is the case.

That is the problem they use the 5% to fudge the payload figures.
Maybe a case of advising buyers to reduce any given payload by 5% of the MIRO then you have a reliable starting point.

 

[Jim]

Ahh but the thrust of the campaign will be this...

 

[63720]

When it comes to water, while abroad, a few years ago I would brim the tank but now with careful planning and using Aires with services I only carry 25% unless we're free camping for a few days.

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[Pekepal]

All very interesting but who has ever been pulled over for a weight check? It seems that the intercepts are aimed more at overweight LGV's than motorhomes....Can we have an honest straw poll of who has ever been weight checked in a m/home and then work out what % you have of being done, depending on where overweight is and the% that is within permissible allowance used to be 5% over to the Funsters!

Suggest visiting a Fines Court at a Magistrates Sitting near to a port.

 

[Lenny HB]

When it comes to water, while abroad, a few years ago I would brim the tank but now with careful planning and using Aires with services I only carry 25% unless we're free camping for a few days.

OK in summer but no good between 1st November & 1st April when most Aires have the water turned off.

 

[peterc10]

That is the problem they use the 5% to fudge the payload figures.
Maybe a case of advising buyers to reduce any given payload by 5% of the MIRO then you have a reliable starting point.

It is worse than that Lenny HB . The 5% applies to the MIRO not the payload. So let us say that the MIRO is 3,000kg and the payload is 500kg. The MIRO can increase by 5% so that will be 3,150kg, which means that the 500kg payload decreases to 350kg. That is a 30% decrease in payload.

Jim a roll out awning is an essential item for most people and many motorhomes do not have it as standard. That can weigh anything from 30 to 50kg. Can't see it on the list. I also think your 395kg figure is light for people going for anything longer than a week's break. Have you ever seen the amount of cloths and shoes women need?

I do think the message needs a bit of nuancing to cover these sorts of situations.

 

[Jim]

I also think your 395kg figure is light for people going for anything longer than a week's break.

The average break is less than a week

 

[gus-lopez]

Suggest visiting a Fines Court at a Magistrates Sitting near to a port.

& the rules apply specifically to commercial vehicles. Any private use overloading is supposed to be dealt with by unloading if well over & advice.

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[peterc10]

The average break is less than a week

There is a saying about statistics ..............................

I am pretty sure that nearly all motorhomers will go for a break of over a week at least once, if not more, per year. Just because they also go for a lot of long weekends as well does not mean that they do not need the payload for longer trips.

 

[Jim]

@Jim a roll out awning is an essential item for most people and many motorhomes do not have it as standard.

I've wracked my brains over this and it is difficult to have a simple message that incorporates every possible scenario. The majority of vans bought do have an awning and the available payload has to be adjusted accordingly, just like it does for spare wheels, dogs, tow bars etc.

All I am trying to do make people aware. So when a dealer says something like "Family van? of course sir, this one has just over half a ton of payload, just look at the size of the garage." People will know it is not enough.

 

[Jim]

There is a saying about statistics ..............................

I am pretty sure that nearly all motorhomers will go for a break of over a week at least once, if not more, per year. Just because they also go for a lot of long weekends as well does not mean that they do not need the payload for longer trips.

Of course not, if they live full time they'll need a lot more. The average payload is from Funsters, I haven't made it up.

 

[peterc10]

Of course not, if they live full time they'll need a lot more. The average payload is from Funsters, I haven't made it up.

Yes I know. But I suspect that the standard deviation is very wide for the demographic of the members.

And I do realise that it is easier to criticise than to do

 

[Pekepal]

& the rules apply specifically to commercial vehicles. Any private use overloading is supposed to be dealt with by unloading if well over & advice.

Is this what the insurance companies would accept if van involved in accident whilst overloaded?

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[Vipar]

I must admit that I knew nothing about payloads when I bought my van I am afraid to take it to the council yard to get it weighed. I am being a bit of an ostrich. Perhaps when I get it MOTed next month I will pluck up the courage and get it done. I am dreading the result.

 

[Pausim]

So

I must admit that I knew nothing about payloads when I bought my van I am afraid to take it to the council yard to get it weighed. I am being a bit of an ostrich. Perhaps when I get it MOTed next month I will pluck up the courage and get it done. I am dreading the result.☹

Some MOT centres can give you the axle weights from the brake test rollers. When my previous motorhome had an MOT at the local Mercedes commercial branch I was given the axle weights but wasn’t too sure if they were taken with or without a driver. I checked the weights at a scrap dealer and got the same results with me in it. Perhaps you can get the weighing done free.

 

[Lenny HB]

It is worse than that @Lenny HB . The 5% applies to the MIRO not the payload. So let us say that the MIRO is 3,000kg and the payload is 500kg. The MIRO can increase by 5% so that will be 3,150kg, which means that the 500kg payload decreases to 350kg. That is a 30% decrease in payload

Specsavers time Peter, I said:-
"reduce any given payload by 5% of the MIRO"

 

[AXO66]

So

Some MOT centres can give you the axle weights from the brake test rollers. When my previous motorhome had an MOT at the local Mercedes commercial branch I was given the axle weights but wasn’t too sure if they were taken with or without a driver. I checked the weights at a scrap dealer and got the same results with me in it. Perhaps you can get the weighing done free.

I got weights at the van’s MOT. then noticed they are used as one factor to calculate brake efficiency.
So i reckon it’s best to take as much out if the van, so it goes in light, before the MOT to reduce chances of a failure on brakes. Or I am misunderstanding that part of the test.
anywhy, you would then need to weigh everything you put back in.!

 

[AXO66]

I've wracked my brains over this and it is difficult to have a simple message that incorporates every possible scenario. The majority of vans bought do have an awning and the available payload has to be adjusted accordingly, just like it does for spare wheels, dogs, tow bars etc.

All I am trying to do make people aware. So when a dealer says something like "Family van? of course sir, this one has just over half a ton of payload, just look at the size of the garage." People will know it is not enough.

i agree with you . The list certainly makes people aware of the way weight accrues.

i just wonder if you could add a bit that would make a potential buyer ask about how the awning, larger engine size , (gold coloured trim ) etc adds to the overall base weight of the motorhome before they load it with their stuff. ( apologises if you have covered this.)

also I noticed you have allowed 30kgs for water, maybe add “and every extra litre adds a kilo to the weight,so know the size if your tank.) Ours is 120litres so quite a significant % if our supposedly 600 + kg. payload.

That would give the buyer more knowledge to engage in a conversation with the seller.

Can’ t agree more that new buyers need awareness and salespeople need to up there game re responsibility to the buyer.

Brilliant work though to get an average amount as a way of raising awarness.

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[Jim]

Specsavers time Peter, I said:-
"reduce any given payload by 5% of the MIRO"

MIRO what a tool that is for confusing customers. The only given from all of them is that they add 75kg for a driver to the unladen weight and call in MIRO. The rest is a mess, some have full fuel, some 90%, some include 20L of water, some include a hook up lead, most don't, some include gas, some a full bottle, some an empty aluminium bottle. No one can work out the payload from a MIRO figure.

 

[Lenny HB]

What we really need is a law that makes it illegal to sell a Motorhome without a weighbridge certificate and statement of what was included at the time of weighing.
And pigs might fly.

And of course we all know a plate weighbridge tolerance is +/- 100kg for a plate weighbridge or +/- 50kg for each axle when individual axles are weighed.
And for a dynamic weighbridge +/- 150kg per axle with a limit on the gross weight of +/- 150kg x the number of axles.

So to be safe you need to reduce your payload by 300kg or 450kg in the case of a tag axle, to allow for weighbridge tolerances.

 

[PeteH]

Why 4T and not 4.5T, 5T, 5.5T.............line needs to be drawn somewhere

Why non commercial vehicles? 4T is 4T whether commercial or not.

Because in IMHO, 4t would be within the chassis margin of the current range of Motorhome Cab Chassis, with only marginal changes ie; almost any of the current crop of Alko units can be 3700kg with no changes at all, not even tyres.

 

[Pausim]

I got weights at the van’s MOT. then noticed they are used as one factor to calculate brake efficiency.
So i reckon it’s best to take as much out if the van, so it goes in light, before the MOT to reduce chances of a failure on brakes. Or I am misunderstanding that part of the test.
anywhy, you would then need to weigh everything you put back in.!

I am not sure that helps but anyway if my brakes are not up to the mark with my normal load I want them fixed before I hit something.

 

[Jim]

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