Payload

[The Wino]

The 3500 limit is achievable depending largely I think on the size and layout of your van. We are just sub 6m with a drop down bed and were well below 3500 on the weighbridge fully loaded. That being said we tend to travel light and never get anywhere near the baggage allowance if we fly.
Out of the list given of"essentials" we have no dealer options no extra batteries no spare wheel (would have but no space for one) no satellite only 1gas bottle etcetc.

 

[Jim]

Given that say 70% travel regularly with water in tanks at every level of “fullness“I cannot recall a single water tank failure. Not one. I’m sure someone might point to one. But couldn’t point to two. And when you consider most of those full water tanks are over 10 years old. I think we can safely say they do not need baffles, or they are all fitted with baffles, and any level of water in your tanks is safe to travel with.

I heard a salesperson tell someone at a show it was unsafe to travel with more than 20l. Clearly with some dealers that is the brief when asked about tiny payloads

 

[The Wino]

Given that say 70% travel regularly with water in tanks at every level of “fullness“I cannot recall a single water tank failure. Not one. I’m sure someone might point to one. But couldn’t point to two. And when you consider most of those full water tanks are over 10 years old. I think we can safely say they do not need baffles, or they are all fitted with baffles, and any level of water in your tanks is safe to travel with.

I heard a salesperson tell someone at a show it was unsafe to travel with more than 20l. Clearly with some dealers that is the brief when asked about tiny payloads

Maybe not just that it's a get out if there's a leak "sorry sir you have misused it"

 

[Lenny HB]

Water, as I'm sure you all know, weighs 1 kg per litre

So depending on tank size, a full water tank weighs the same one one or two extra people
Plus fuel, which for the sake of argument also weights 1 kg per litre, so again the weight of a third person
To that you can add some grey and black water.

However I don't think most vehicles were ever designed to haul a full tank of water over much distance, as the plastic water tanks (unlike metal fuel tanks) are not fitted with baffles or surge protectors.

You are likely to pop the top of a fully loaded water tank as the water moves the big access lid, or the pump access or (as used to happen in my yacht in heavy seas) forces the water out of the taps, which are designed to act as pressure escape valves.

Therefore I would always only travel with the minimum amount of water in the tank and fill up at, or close to, my destination. If needed a 20 litre Jerry can will do as emergency back up.

In addition remember that you are paying in fuel for ever extra kilo that you move.
If you can get water at your destination you would be crazy to pay to haul it all the way there.

Only been driving Motorhomes for over 10 years & 76,000 miles always with a full tank never had a problem.

Never know for certain when you are going to be able to get water and I'm real grumpy without my morning shower.
Last Feb/Mar going down & back to Spain of the 9 Aires we stopped at in France only 2 had the water turned on.

 

[63720]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I brought it up is that when we bought our first van, after much research on make and model and only a small outside locker, I was told that payload was for tables, chairs, clothing and food, I didn't realise it included me and 'er, water, fuel etc. We bought in September of that year and by December we were in Spain. Almost on arrival at our first site and after looking around I realised that we had bought the wrong van. However we kept it for a year then changed it for one with a garage and proper payload. Now when anyone with no knowledge asks me what to buy I tell them before going to a dealer spend a morning wandering around a campsite and chat to owners who wil be happy to talk about the good and bad of their pride and joy, and, ask about payload.

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[Jim]

I didn't realise it included me and 'er, water, fuel etc.

The payload figure should have included a 90% full fuel tank. But none of them now include water. They used to, but now that they've decided it is so dangerous to travel with full tanks they don't

Some might have included the weight of empty gas bottle, a hookup lead and a little water but who knows, as long as people aren't asking the questions the dealers/makers don't care.

 

[jezport]

Your payload can disappear in 3 ways without you realizing before you even pack clothes or food!

Way 1, Driver and passengers at between 70 and 100kg each.

Way 2, Accessories, Awning 40kg, Extra gas bottle 25Kg, Solar panels 20kg, Spare wheel 25kg, bikes and rack between 50 and 80kg, Extra battery 10kg, hook up cable, hose.

Way 3, Water between 100 and 140kg, Diesel Between 60 and 120kg.

And these are all before small extras like tv, aerial, satdish, levelling ramps, elsan, spare cassette, tool kit, pots and pans, kettle, microwave, BBQ, Remoska type of thing, Towels, bedding and pillows, chargers

 

[busby]

Water, as I'm sure you all know, weighs 1 kg per litre

So depending on tank size, a full water tank weighs the same one one or two extra people
Plus fuel, which for the sake of argument also weights 1 kg per litre, so again the weight of a third person
To that you can add some grey and black water.

However I don't think most vehicles were ever designed to haul a full tank of water over much distance, as the plastic water tanks (unlike metal fuel tanks) are not fitted with baffles or surge protectors.

You are likely to pop the top of a fully loaded water tank as the water moves the big access lid, or the pump access or (as used to happen in my yacht in heavy seas) forces the water out of the taps, which are designed to act as pressure escape valves.

Therefore I would always only travel with the minimum amount of water in the tank and fill up at, or close to, my destination. If needed a 20 litre Jerry can will do as emergency back up.

In addition remember that you are paying in fuel for ever extra kilo that you move.
If you can get water at your destination you would be crazy to pay to haul it all the way there.

Never ever heard of a water tank ever popping its top,,they are not big enough to worry about.Always drive with a full tank,,BUSBY.

 

[Larby]

Your payload can disappear in 3 ways without you realizing before you even pack clothes or food!

Way 1, Driver and passengers at between 70 and 100kg each.

Way 2, Accessories, Awning 40kg, Extra gas bottle 25Kg, Solar panels 20kg, Spare wheel 25kg, bikes and rack between 50 and 80kg, Extra battery 10kg, hook up cable, hose.

Way 3, Water between 100 and 140kg, Diesel Between 60 and 120kg.

And these are all before small extras like tv, aerial, satdish, levelling ramps, elsan, spare cassette, tool kit, pots and pans, kettle, microwave, BBQ, Remoska type of thing, Towels, bedding and pillows, chargers

Don't forget ME

 

[jezport]

Don't forget ME

View attachment 359755

Counts as a passenger
Joking apart, how many people add the weight of their pet and all its accessories. We have just bougt a amaller lighter cage for our Macaw for the van, as she is out of it most the time. Her old cage was quite heavy.

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[Googlebot]

We got an Exsis I due to the payload of 700KG.

Visited the weighbridge fully laden with everything on I could think of and a bit of food, but no kids.

20kg over the limit. We can’t carry water and bikes, one or the other.

This isn’t with anything opulent or non essential. It’s the basics to be able to use it as we wish.

Anything for a family or couple in my opinion with less than a 700kg payload, is useful for nothing!

Saw one recently, a Swift I think, and it had a 270KG payload. So once the wife and kids and dog are in, I might have 100KG left. What’s the point?

 

[two]

Before I dropped to 3500kg I used to travel with full water tanks because I could and it was convenient. I've since found that it is possible to travel with a minimum and save fuel in the process. I've no idea how much fuel will be saved but, judging by the general concern about cost/price by members, I'd have thought that saving some pennies might to persuade some of us not to carry excess weight. Given the chance, There are many other things I'd prefer to carry than more water.
Not knowing where you may end up may be good reason to take extra but full tanks will last three days (some claim much more if it suits them to say so) and I'm sure that we don't need to be carrying that amount unless crossing a desert. I try to dump every day and there's usually a source of water at such places.

I think that MIRO normally includes some gas as well as water and fuel. Manufacturers often choose to put it in a lightweight cylinder and only have one bottle to reduce the weight impact. Such practice is misleading and suggests that they know their vans are too heavy. Forget MIRO (How many of us don't carry a passenger? How many of us weigh 75kg, or less?) Vans should have a recent weighbridge ticket showing their ULW and you should be entitled to penalize a seller if you choose to verify the weight and it's more than 10kg (say) heavier.

 

[StephDeLux]

Rule out all vans with less than 700kg payload (1000kg would be better) then start looking at layouts.

That is the ideal approach. But when a C1 license is not available, choose a supplier who gives good attention to payload and is rigorous in the announced weights, carefully balance extra equipment with payload and then be conscious of what you bring with you. That works for 2 people with a small motorhome.

 

[Pausim]

When discussing payload with a sales person last year he swept his hand dismissively along a double row of a particular make and said ”I doubt any of those will leave the forecourt legally under 3,500kg”. He was responsible for sales of a different make so there might have been some puff in his statement but I suspect it means the dealers know damn well that many under 3,500kg motorhomes can not really operate within the limit.

 

[StephDeLux]

We got an Exsis I due to the payload of 700KG.

Is that before of after adding the optional equipment?

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[Googlebot]

Is that before of after adding the optional equipment?

Before, in fairness though Hymer were pretty upfront about what you could and couldn’t carry. The awning and gas it cylinders for instance took up a huge chunk.

 

[two]

Some manufacturers declare an unloaded weight in their brochures that is not available to the public because they are sold in this country with 'obligatory options'.

 

[StephDeLux]

Way 1, Driver and passengers at between 70 and 100kg each.

If only

 

[Lenny HB]

Some manufacturers declare an unloaded weight in their brochures that is not available to the public because they are sold in this country with 'obligatory options'.

Also very few manufacturers meet their brochure weight most rely on the 5% tolerance. Hymer are one of the few that do. Every Carthago I've seen has been 130 kg over, it's so consistent that they are obviously making use of the 5% to pretend they have more payload.

 

[StephDeLux]

Also very few manufacturers meet their brochure weight most rely on the 5% tolerance. Hymer are one of the few that do. Every Carthago I've seen has been 130 kg over, it's so consistent that they are obviously making use of the 5% to pretend they have more payload.

Indeed, having visited a Carthago several times, I was suspicious. The way they build is anything but lightweight. Add a double floor, thicker walls, a GRP-covered roof strong enough to support several people and I found the claimed MIRO to be equal to the MIRO of an EXSIS-T 580 hard to believe. When I asked the question at Carthago-City, the guy mentionned the 5% tolerance...

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[Langtoftlad]

You need 200kg for manufacturers options to start with, awning another 45kg, 2 additional batteries 60 kg 3 solar panels 25kg, TV 3kg, Sat dish 10kg, spare wheel 30kg That's 373kg before you even start loading it. A full water tank is 160kg. So now we have used 533 kg and the van is empty.

Ah, starting from a different point...
I look at payload available from 'on the road' delivery ie what's available to me for my junk...
So my Wildax came with 400kg which was just enough...

 

[Sunlovers]

We stripped some 30Kg of books and magazines from the lockers which had somehow accumulated over the months. Staggering just how heavy printed matter is when you bulk it all together!

 

[StephDeLux]

Interesting idea to share actual weights

In our case, the MIRO is 2,860kg
The extras we ordered add 160kg

That leaves us with 480kg of payload, with no intention to carry anything resembling a bike. We like to walk and if too far or too steep, buses and taxis suit us.

No plan whatsoever to add an awning nor solar panels nor satellite, the battery will be replaced by one of the same weight, I "budget" 6kg for the inverter and extra fuses, 5kg for a TV, the other little mods will add 1 or 2kg max and that's it.

 

[Jim]

An average couple will need around 400kg.

Remember that in the confusing payload figures, they fudge it further with what is MIRO. part of which is adding a 75kg driver

So if the van, you are looking at, says it has a MIRO giving 400kg spare capacity (payload) it likely has an actual payload of 475kg Because you are going to ignore the imaginary driver and add the weight of a real one.

Meaning Mr and Mrs Average requiring 400kg will be OK.

Let's see how this works with some real figures

Auto-Trail Delaware, a fixed rear island bed 4 berth for two adults and two teenagers.

Max Gross weight (MAM) is 4500kg
Mass in Running Order (MIRO) 3750kg
Starting Payload 750kg

That payload already includes a driver so we can add 75kg to the figure making the available payload 825kg

Now look at the chart below

We need 175 kg for the van and around 110 kg for each person

175 + (4x110) = 615

This gives us over 200kg to play with, so we might travel with full tanks or load up with wine etc.

This is the "Average" payload an "Average" person requires. We came to these averages to give you a ballpark figure of what you might require. Yes you may carry more wine, clothes or water, but these are the averages. You can work out your personal requirements easily enough.

 

[tonyidle]

The only way I can think of to tie down a Dealer is to know in advance what weight you would ideally like to carry. Ask the Dealer, preferably in writing, whether your intended purchase will legally carry xxxKg load and remain legal. You should also have noted the minimum load you can manage in case you really want the van and are prepared to compromise. The Dealer should either answer in the affirmative or agree to weigh the van. If later his answer proves to be incorrect you have a 'not fit for purpose' comeback. If you already have a van determining the weight of what you carry can be done over a period of time and at your convenience. You will be forearmed when you come to change it.

Edit: Or use Jims list

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[jezport]

If only

Was being polite and a bit PC

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting idea to share actual weights

In our case, the MIRO is 2,860kg
The extras we ordered add 160kg

That leaves us with 480kg of payload, with no intention to carry anything resembling a bike. We like to walk and if too far or too steep, buses and taxis suit us.

No plan whatsoever to add an awning nor solar panels nor satellite, the battery will be replaced by one of the same weight, I "budget" 6kg for the inverter and extra fuses, 5kg for a TV, the other little mods will add 1 or 2kg max and that's it.

Our factory fitted extras were 146 kg making an MIRO or 3288 kg. (the van was 16 kg over brochure weight that is included in this figure)

I have added extras totaling approx 240 kg which includes, Spare wheel, awning, 2 additional Gel batteries, inverter, sat dish, TV, 3 x solar panels, full air suspension, etc.

Giving a total MIRO of 3528 kg. MAM is 4500 kg.
So with all the extras fitted (386 kg), I have nearly 1000 kg payload.
I weight the regimental 75 kg & the boss 45 kg.

 

[Southdowners]

The only way I can think of to tie down a Dealer is to know in advance what weight you would ideally like to carry. Ask the Dealer, preferably in writing, whether your intended purchase will legally carry xxxKg load and remain legal. You should also have noted the minimum load you can manage in case you really want the van and are prepared to compromise. The Dealer should either answer in the affirmative or agree to weigh the van. If later his answer proves to be incorrect you have a 'not fit for purpose' comeback.

Has anyone ever actually had a dealer agree to refund/exchange because of payload? It's obviously a crucial element in choosing a motorhome and in theory it should be possible to return a vehicle if it doesn't have the expected payload. I just wonder whether in practice this is actually what happens?

 

[funflair]

Has anyone ever actually had a dealer agree to refund/exchange because of payload? It's obviously a crucial element in choosing a motorhome and in theory it should be possible to return a vehicle if it doesn't have the expected payload. I just wonder whether in practice this is actually what happens?

I know a dealer that replaced a gas tank with bottles and replaced Gel batteries with Lithium to get a bit more payload for the customer.

Martin

 

[Jim]

Has anyone ever actually had a dealer agree to refund/exchange because of payload? It's obviously a crucial element in choosing a motorhome and in theory it should be possible to return a vehicle if it doesn't have the expected payload. I just wonder whether in practice this is actually what happens?

Makers will always have a full explanation of payload and its importance within the specifications. (Even when they give you next to nothing to work with) So it is always buyer beware. When I've mentioned unrealistic payload to the NCC they say the same. The buyer should ensure they have the payload they require.

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