Motorhome take over at CAMC

[glenn2926]

With all due respect, you're just guessing at costs.
IIRC it was GJH who mentioned that the carpark might not be constructed to take 3500kg+ vans.

Who is going to pay for the wardens to enforce payment from the overnighter?

Let's face it, there just isn't the demand to force a change in law...

Craven district council has managed to do just this in three of their car parks. The uptake from motorhomes has in Skipton at least been massive. I’m not sure how many use Settle or Ingleton but they are trying. I hope other councils take notice of this forward thinking area.

 

[Skez]

i know where I’d rather be staying

Photo 1 for me. No. 2 doesn't even hint 'freedom' to me.

As always, it's horses for courses.

 

[Swifter]

Which is miles out of town and right next to a very busy junction. My wife did a craft shoe there and found it really noisy.

Sorry to hear that Jon .

 

[Clipgate]

I have always been confused by the term Club, this afternoon checked the list of officers that govern.
It seems to me and I am biased let me declare! that the organisation is merely a commercial entity, governed by a salaried board supported by employees.
I have nothing against free enterprise, however to call it a club in my eyes suggests a mutual.
Possibly once long ago it was such an organisation, similar to what we now call building societies, which in the main are banks.
I can understand the structure and need for a return on investment, however let's call it what it is a business nothing more or less

 

[Gellyneck]

When We actually joined the caravan club 30 years ago with a caravan it was a caravan club. Now we have a Motorhome and they claim to be a Motorhome club as well
So not asking for anything other than what they themselves claim to be.
They along with commercial sites continue to obstruct the introduction of an continental Aires type model but in 30 years have not changed there own model to the needs of a changing market. If they can’t supply it then stop using the power and position they have to block the introduction of Aires. You can’t have it both ways.

They are a motorhome club but just don't meet your personal definition of what a "motorhome club" should be. Whilst the market may be changing their current model seems to be working well for the majority of their members.
Is there irrefutable evidence of the clubs acting non-competitively? If they do happen to be lobbying local \ governmental bodies in support of their business this is no different from any other business doing likewise and would, I suspect, not illegal.

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[Langtoftlad]

I have always been confused by the term Club, this afternoon checked the list of officers that govern.
It seems to me and I am biased let me declare! that the organisation is merely a commercial entity, governed by a salaried board supported by employees.
I have nothing against free enterprise, however to call it a club in my eyes suggests a mutual.
Possibly once long ago it was such an organisation, similar to what we now call building societies, which in the main are banks.
I can understand the structure and need for a return on investment, however let's call it what it is a business nothing more or less

Who are the owners of the "business"?
And if a business only offers its products to subscribing members... is that not, by definition, a club?

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I have always been confused by the term Club, this afternoon checked the list of officers that govern.
It seems to me and I am biased let me declare! that the organisation is merely a commercial entity, governed by a salaried board supported by employees.
I have nothing against free enterprise, however to call it a club in my eyes suggests a mutual.
Possibly once long ago it was such an organisation, similar to what we now call building societies, which in the main are banks.
I can understand the structure and need for a return on investment, however let's call it what it is a business nothing more or less

Its a club like the RAC is a club

Stay safe, stay un-confused

 

[Garfields]

The licence issue will surely hamper sales of caravans to younger drivers as thankfully the days of buying a cheap caravan and hooking it to any car with no experience will come to an end, but will many young people commit to an extra set of tax insurance?

IMHO the older generation will probably gravitate to motorhomes and the young will go to centerparcs etc.

If you use that logic lots of motorhomes over 3.5 tonnes will be obsolete as well
Like cars and caravans may get rid of people that are fairly clueless driving motorhomes
Just a random thought my crystal ball is a bit misted up today
Re the number of motorhomes re caravans it seems to vary site to site and time of year.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Which is miles out of town and right next to a very busy junction. My wife did a craft shoe there and found it really noisy.

And full of enough people to make it worth opening it......even though you will never go near the place

I never go in McDonalds personally, but they are busy I expect, and I don't believe I should put them down just because I shan't be frequenting

 

[Langtoftlad]

We tend not to use cmc sites because we don’t want to pay £30 for a pitch

Just back from 3nts at Tewkesbury CAMC, under £18/nt... 5 mins walk into town.
And 5nts at Cirencester CAMC at under £15/nt... 15 mins walk into town.
Moreton-in-Marsh CAMC was "expensive" at just under £22/nt... 5 mins walk into town.

The only sites I've come across wanting £30 are commercial sites.

Each to their own

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[Swifter]

Just back from 3nts at Tewkesbury CAMC, under £18/nt... 5 mins walk into town.
And 5nts at Cirencester CAMC at under £15/nt... 15 mins walk into town.
Moreton-in-Marsh CAMC was "expensive" at just under £22/nt... 5 mins walk into town.

The only sites I've come across wanting £30 are commercial sites.

Each to their own

How many people for £18 a night at Tewksbury?

 

[Langtoftlad]

Me and Kerry

How many people for £18 a night at Tewksbury?

 

[Swifter]

Me and Kerry

Great value . Can’t complain at that price

 

[Langtoftlad]

Great value . Can’t complain at that price

It's one advantage of the Club's pricing structure that they charge for a pitch and then per person.

It's an annoyance that commercial site prices are generally inclusive of two but then charge extra for the dog.

 

[deleted79651]

UK Aires can be self financing, especially if they offer out of main season water & elsan facilities. The income [Hawick I believe is going to charge £5pn via a token system for the facilities] will supplement the main tourist season car park & facilities income, so giving an extended season, in effect. Also, if the public toilets are there anyway for general public/non m/home use, then they are a 'sunk cost' and the extra usage/extra charges income helps with full cost recovery.

If Councils want to stop the economic damage of COVID closing local businesses permanently, and creating ghost towns or commuter dormitories, they need initiatives to attract tourism spend, and 'every little helps'. The Aire is another string to the bow and if we then 'shop, eat and drink local', we will be helping whilst enjoying.

Steve

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[Larrynwin]

Just back from 3nts at Tewkesbury CAMC, under £18/nt... 5 mins walk into town.
And 5nts at Cirencester CAMC at under £15/nt... 15 mins walk into town.
Moreton-in-Marsh CAMC was "expensive" at just under £22/nt... 5 mins walk into town.

The only sites I've come across wanting £30 are commercial sites.

Each to their own

Value for money imo and I can never find a club site for £50 a night as has sometimes been quoted.

 

[Neil S]

The licence issue will surely hamper sales of caravans to younger drivers as thankfully the days of buying a cheap caravan and hooking it to any car with no experience will come to an end, but will many young people commit to an extra set of tax insurance?

IMHO the older generation will probably gravitate to motorhomes and the young will go to centerparcs etc.

Extra Insurance yes but what extra tax are you taking about .
As for licence restrictions are local driver training schools does caravan towing lessons and B+E tutoring and have a waiting list as long as your arm with younger drivers wanting to upgrade their licences

 

[Clarky]

Arrived at Kingsbury Water Park C& CC site today.
Just had a walk round the large site and the caravan/motorhome ratio is 50/50 or to be exact 56/56.
Loads of space free, particularly on the grass pitches.
Price for a hard standing pitch with hookup is just over £21 per night for two of us.

 

[jongood]

Extra Insurance yes but what extra tax are you taking about .
As for licence restrictions are local driver training schools does caravan towing lessons and B+E tutoring and have a waiting list as long as your arm with younger drivers wanting to upgrade their licences

Extra tax and insurance for a motorhome to be sat on the drive. Afaics the changing license requirements will start to impact on caravan and motorhome sales.

 

[GJH]

Irrelevant really. We all pay our taxes.
what it will take is it’s made law to provide at least one in every town/village.
car parking is already there and mostly not used at night and sometimes they already have toilet there
As someone said it just a change of use and the cost?
I would say more than covered at £5 a night 6 till 8
As said earlier by someone else club are not in

With all due respect, you're just guessing at costs.
IIRC it was GJH who mentioned that the carpark might not be constructed to take 3500kg+ vans.

Who is going to pay for the wardens to enforce payment from the overnighter?

Let's face it, there just isn't the demand to force a change in law...

I haven't followed this thread but was alerted by Stephen's post.
It is a fact that some car parks aren't constructed to withstand regular use by such heavy vehicles. As pointed out many times in the past, there are many different factors involved when considering a change of use and each case has to be treated on its merits. The one thing one can't do is simply assume one knows the costs without doing so.
For example "sometimes they already have toilet there". One of the factors in creating the (sadly, eventually, failed) "aire" at Guisborough was security off the toilets, which had suffered from antisocial behaviour in previous years when open at night.
As Guisborough showed, it would be a waste of money to "provide at least one in every town/village".

I always laugh when I see the statement "We all pay our taxes". Most of us do but a lot of people haven't a clue exactly what they pay for. What is a fact is that the taxes paid by the public are insufficient to cover the costs of everything demanded by that same public - which is why, for instance, most car parks have an associated parking charge as well. "We all pay our taxes" is an irrelevance.

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[GJH]

Craven district council has managed to do just this in three of their car parks. The uptake from motorhomes has in Skipton at least been massive. I’m not sure how many use Settle or Ingleton but they are trying. I hope other councils take notice of this forward thinking area.

I contacted Craven (and all other councils) several times whilst running my web site. I don't know all the ins and outs of how they funded the scheme but the council only introduced it after proper consideration, not a simple assumption.
Again, Guisborough showed that what works in one place does not necessarily work everywhere.

 

[jongood]

I dont understand why Guisborough was chosen, nothing against it but, most people have never heard of it. And why the fixati on with toilets? If it hasnt got its own toilet then its not a motorhome

Whats happened in places like skipton and Helmsley is much more relevant. I'm considering visiting those areas because they have more options.

 

[tonyidle]

Totally understand the 6m rule for caravans and awnings. No problem with that. But lets say the first 2/3 pitches as you go in are just gravel hard standing or grass not bothered. Marked out as large parking bays. Motorhome only no awning no caravans. There is no law regarding space required and there is no reason they can't do it.

They just don't want to.

Awning or not is irrelevant. 6M is the recommended spacing for occupied leisure vehicles. It's almost certainly a Fire Service recommendation.

 

[Ivory55]

You’re right it’s not law just recommend, but I guess their insurance would have the last word

 

[Guigsy]

Europe has plenty of urban 'aire' type sites. Some of them are expensive considering the lack of facilities. Until you consider that you can often walk into the city centre. We've passed through Bruge a few times and stayed several nights at the Parking Kanaaleiland. It's €25 per night for pretty crammed in parking spots. But you don't go there to sit in a car park! There are similar urban sites close enough to walk to the centre in Hamburg, Koln, Seville, Bern, Lausanne, Bern, Verona, Innsbruck, Munich (OK, that's the football ground, but easy access to the centre), Prague, Dresden...

The difference is that caravanning means you have a car. You park in a field in the middle of nowhere for a couple of weeks, but you drive the car places. It just becomes a temporary hub that can be away from the towns. For me, motorhoming is about being on the move. I might want to go into a city, park near the centre (or at least have quick access on public transport). Maybe have a wine or beer in a restaurant nearby. Move on the next day. I don't need lots of site facilities with lots of grass. So a lot of the C&MC sites are too caravan focused for me. I think urban Aires in the UK would work and I'd be prepared to pay for them.

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[Ivory55]

From wales

‘A village torn apart’: What now for Anglesey beach row?

Gareth Williams, local democracy reporter Questions remain over the status of a strip of land which has been at the centre of a months-long public access row on Anglesey. Ongoing tensions saw boulders placed on the foreshore of Llanddona beach in March, part of an apparent attempt to stop...

nation.cymru

In the article a motorhome owner reckoned they could provide fresh water, a septic tank for toilets and bins regularly emptied for a couple of quid charged. Evidently dealing with waste now is very cheap in Wales !

 

[Cheshirecat57]

My point is that they wont work because of the scrotes that will be allowed to hang around them without consequence , vandalising and thieving without respect (Sadly)

 

[Despicable]

There may also be a fear that 'travellers' will use them; thereby creating a negative financial impact on the local community.

 

[Gellyneck]

I think urban Aires in the UK would work and I'd be prepared to pay for them.

And, in my view, that's where motorhomers should be focussing their efforts rather than seeking to get the recognised Clubs to change their business philosophy. They're providing a "residential" pitch with (generally) facilities and their business model does not incorporate the provision of "short-term" parking.

 

[Guigsy]

There may also be a fear that 'travellers' will use them; thereby creating a negative financial impact on the local community.

A lot of European city centre sites have barriers and operate like a car park. Get a ticket on entry, pay at the machine when you're preparing to leave, use the ticket to raise the barrier to get out. They can set limits on the length of stay. Charge £10-25 per night.

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