Motorhome Payload Stop Checks

[Crazy Grandad]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

 

[gus-lopez]

and everything to do with the current law being daft.

Exactly

Yep not really sure , had to take a double take at the post. Trying to think of a scenario where that would stand up ………….. nope nothing

Years ago in essex ,suffolk etc with people going racing ,silverstone/santa pod it was quite common for that scenario to occur.

but 26 miles further on a 2 lane motorway driving on the opposite side it’s safe to do 83 miles per hour.

You also left off "& Towing a caravan/trailer at that speed as well if they want"

Personally, I’d prefer to be confident that if did have a serious accident then

"i'd be claiming off the other driver"

To be fair the 83mph two lane has a restriction mechanism that reduces the amount of cars, so making it safer to put your foot down. It's called a toll

Not what I have ever found in the summer. One queue was 17kms for the toll another was 43kms .As I was ranting at the time "i'm not paying good money twice to be doing under 130kph". why I don't bother using them as it is just as quick on A & d roads.

 

[Nigel P]

You can't have read my posts properly. It has nowt to do with me being a brilliant driver as you put it, and everything to do with the current law being daft. For me, the safety of my family is the deciding factor. The law, has sod all to do with safety in the context that I am describing.

There is a company that I can ring up tomorrow that if I send about a hundred quid and photos of my four 225 tyres, and the semi-air suspension, they will do the admin work to get my motorhome MAM to 3850kg. Plates and V5C.

What has physically changed? Nothing.
Does my motorhome hit yours any less hard if we have a coming together? No.
Am I suddenly the brilliant driver? Nope.
Are your "measures that were put in place to keep me safe." actually any different? Of course they aren't.
Does an archangel come down from on high and make sure I have no accidents?

Nothing changes, except for the payment of a hundred quid. It is just silly bureaucracy, and your outrage is, I am afraid, rather misplaced. You would be better off having a go at those who are massively overweight, but do not have the physical improvements that I have put in to my bus.

I didn't mean to offend or imply that you were the 'brilliant driver', rather in a more abstract sense it was simply an illustration of an attitude that many adopt around rules. Neither was I outraged! Merely mystified with the 'I'm alright Jack' position that some take. It is the attitude towards rules that I was commenting on, there are obviously may ex-police on the forum and I imagine in their careers they have stopped vehicles for one particular issue, only to discover several more along the way, a very common scenario. It also begs the obvious question around deliberate disobedience as to what threshold you set for yourself, is it 100kgs over, 500kgs over or beyond? That is my point, society cannot exist efficiently if we all just decide we will do as we like. This country enjoys an enviable road safety history due to a series of rules which the majority adhere to; the more that choose non-compliance just statistically increase the risks for others.

 

[Northernraider]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

Good explanation of why people dislike the police

 

[Northernraider]

Agreed and it’s been pointed out to Laurence several times in the posts above!

I was quite restrained , gus-lopez less so!

Yes but there's also a misconception that you're innocent till proven guilty.

But in the eyes of most police these days you're guilty till you prove yourself innocent. That's why they have attitude turned up full blast from the onset.

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[DDJC]

Yes and marks truck could be plated to 70 tons tomorrow and pull 70 tons BUT if it’s only plated at 44 tons he’ll get done over 44

The gross legal weight is whatever is on the plate, NOT what you think it’s safe to run at, it’s all about the laws of the land!!

Ok we’ll flip it Mrs ddjc can drive it at the mo, you could up plate it tomorrow and she can’t, even though it’s the same van! I agree the law wants changing to 7.5t but at the mo it isn’t.
Again it’s all about the LAW

Exactly. The choice is this:

a) Drive a tad over. The fine for being 5% overloaded is £100 and a roadside unload (and a rammed trailer). Maybe if if the traffic cop is in a good mood, he might just give me a ticking off, and a road unload.

b) Up-plate and the fine for driving a vehicle that you do not have a licence for is up to £1000 and up to 6 points for a serious offence. I defer to the three very helpful ex-traffic cops about what whether driving a C1 sized veh on a B licence is a serious offence

c) Leave my boys at home, be underweight, and be in court for neglect and abandonment.

No contest. It's 'a)'.

 

[xYachties]

Our configuration is the same… If the plod can add on 150kgs for non-existent passengers (and I think they or DVSA would struggle with that argument in a court) then the only answer I see is to remove the unused seat-belts! I have to say, I’m not about to do that….

 

[Northernraider]

As far as weighbridges, I walked through a farm recently which had a weighbridge, and just out of curiosity walked across it as the weight display was on. It measured my weight accurately to within a couple of kg.

I'm surprised it's that sensitive. I'd have thought something capable of weighing 30-40 tonnes wouldn't even pick up a few hundred pounds

 

[Nigel P]

Your post seems to ignore the fact that DDJC has uprated the safety standards of his MH to those required for a higher weight, so is not compromising safety.

The rules he is braking are legal ones not safety ones: i.e. not having the MH upplated to reflect its safe capable weight and he is prepared to pay the stipulated fine. Lady DDJC could, if she were driving, be in breach for driving a vehicle overweight for her licence. They accept the risk of such fines.

However I cannot see that there are any moral grounds for accusing them of compromising safety.

Sorry if the post was mis-interpreted, it was not meant to be personalised, rather a comment on general disregard for rules that are designed for safety.

 

[Northernraider]

I'm sure I've seen an insurance condition that a valid MOT certificate is required. Mine expires in May but doesn't require taxing again until March 2025. Easy to forget that it has expired. Yet another thing to catch you out

Force of habit. I ALWAYS know to the exact date when my mot is due. And it's always presented early

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[xYachties]

Much talked about the 3500kg weight, on mine 3650kg max weight. But the crucial weight is the rear axle.
The extra from 3500kg to 3650kg was added on the front, pretty useless.

Just me, fuel up and normal gear, rear axle was over the axle weight. Stick on food, bikes, wife etc. Be way over. So I uprated it. Fortunately, had the bigger wheels, front already uprated. Just air at rear and paperwork. Another 240kg, plenty to spare.

So when weighed, check the rear axle weight. Lots of MH's will over. One day the authorities will use this as an income.

 

[DDJC]

I didn't mean to offend or imply that you were the 'brilliant driver', rather in a more abstract sense it was simply an illustration of an attitude that many adopt around rules. Neither was I outraged! Merely mystified with the 'I'm alright Jack' position that some take. It is the attitude towards rules that I was commenting on, there are obviously may ex-police on the forum and I imagine in their careers they have stopped vehicles for one particular issue, only to discover several more along the way, a very common scenario. It also begs the obvious question around deliberate disobedience as to what threshold you set for yourself, is it 100kgs over, 500kgs over or beyond? That is my point, society cannot exist efficiently if we all just decide we will do as we like. This country enjoys an enviable road safety history due to a series of rules which the majority adhere to; the more that choose non-compliance just statistically increase the risks for others.

No, I get all that and I apologise if my response was a bit short fused.

To answer your question about threshold, because my 3500 MH could go to 3850 tomorrow, you might have thought that I considered that the safe weight for me? No, I am looking at less than 5%. At 3500kg, that is a max of 175 kg over. No way am I near that.

 

[DDJC]

Much talked about the 3500kg weight, on mine 3650kg max weight. But the crucial weight is the rear axle.
The extra from 3500kg to 3650kg was added on the front, pretty useless.

Just me, fuel up and normal gear, rear axle was over the axle weight. Stick on food, bikes, wife etc. Be way over. So I uprated it. Fortunately, had the bigger wheels, front already uprated. Just air at rear and paperwork. Another 240kg, plenty to spare.

So when weighed, check the rear axle weight. Lots of MH's will over. One day the authorities will use this as an income.

By installing semi air on the rear axles, and going from 215 R15 109 R tyres to 225 R15 112S, (both at 5 bar) my rear axle weight goes up from 1910 kg to 2240. More than enough.

 

[TheBig1]

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting anyone do this

On many motorhomes, especially A class there is more than one weight plate, with final registration on purchase, there is a lower limit on the newest plate. However it is just as easy to point to the higher weight plate regardless of what was written on the v5 when checked. Claim a simple clerical error in the paperwork if your licence has c1 on it. This of course leaves a possibility of just having a plate made up and fit it without paying the £100 for irrelevant paperwork

Anything likely to cause a lot of paperwork with little chance of a prosecution, and most of the police officers I know would simply give a verbal warning to get the paperwork sorted if still within the limits of "the plate on the van". Far too few police and no time to invest in such harmless cases these days. Remember, sometimes you can go for weeks without seeing a police car out on the road. Even then, they prioritise the cases involving violence. The old days of a full shift being detailed to do a courtesy to DVLA stops is getting to be a thing of the past. Maybe in cities near a motorway, but definitely not in towns and villages.

Locally they have just torn the police station down and the local office is in a back room of the firestation. Never seen more than 3 police cars and a camera van in the carpark. There isn't space. Go 10 miles to the nearest big town and there are 10 marked cars and vans parked up unused

 

[stevewagner]

The FIat X2/90 handbook data only goes up to 4,200 Kg. My interpretation is that 4,200 Kg was the maximum MTPLM design limit for all chassis variants including commercial and MH ones.

In my Rapido handbook the advice is to travel with only 50 litres in the fresh water tank, i.e. half full. Not because a full tank would push it close to or above the 3,500 Kg weight limit. I suspect that is because a full 100 litre water tank could result in uneven load distribution, that might affect stability in an emergency situation.

Which is my point. Some are saying overloading your vehicle is dangerous when it is not because it is designed for it.

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[Mzracer]

There will need to be some changes made soon around the legislation in this area given the very high weights of electric vehicles.

Yep you are right, they are going to allow folk with the regular license (3.5tonne) to drive 4.25 tonne EV vans, what a load of tosh the whole thing is !!

 

[nicholsong]

Sorry if the post was mis-interpreted, it was not meant to be personalised, rather a comment on general disregard for rules that are designed for safety.

You did quote DDJC's post and used the word 'you'

 

[nicholsong]

Yep you are right, they are going to allow folk with the regular license (3.5tonne) to drive 4.25 tonne EV vans, what a load of tosh the whole thing is !!

But the proposal is only for commercially operated vehicles.

 

[Northernraider]

You could probably uprate your present van without too much cost.
If Mrs DDJC really needs to drive it should could take her C1.
There is absolutely no excuse for driving a vehicle that is overweight.
Like WESTY66 I think the more roadside checks they use the better.

I'd agree with that but with a slight adaption
"There is absolutely no excuse for DELIBERATELY driving a vehicle that is overweight"

Accidentally I'd allow as I know the weight of my van changes drastically as I live in it full time and as such im pretty close to its max weight a lot of the time. So when I've just shopped, filled with water and fuel , if I bought a few extra things here and there I could very well be just over .

But the proposal is only for commercially operated vehicles.

It's apparently already been implemented in a few other European countries.

 

[Mzracer]

But the proposal is only for commercially operated vehicles.

Ok but I think a sensible guy like you would see the complete bollocks of just changing a rule to suit, either 3.5 tonnes had some merit or it did not !!

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[Happy Jack]

Have just read part of first page and part of page 5 so maybe I have missed a few pertinent points BUT.
Seems quite a few people think it's OK to run overweight.
If you knowingly drive overweight then you are a complete ********.

 

[Northernraider]

Ok but I think a sensible guy like you would see the complete bollocks of just changing a rule to suit, either 3.5 tonnes had some merit or it did not !!

I think it was yet just another money making scheme , prior to 97 you automatically had a licence up to 7.5t . Then they changed it

 

[Lenny HB]

I think it was yet just another money making scheme , prior to 97 you automatically had a licence up to 7.5t . Then they changed it

To fall in line with the EU, it was a stupid idea.

 

[jeddy]

This may be useful.

 

[WESTY66]

To fall in line with the EU, it was a stupid idea.

But we’re not there now! Why do they drag their heels putting stuff back

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[Lenny HB]

But we’re not there now! Why do they drag their heels putting stuff back

They don't want to upset the EU.

 

[Lenny HB]

This may be useful.



View attachment 883479

That is a bit misleading the normal accepted is only 20lt of water and one 11kg aluminium gas bottle

 

[Ray-Vic]

Unless you're in a Bailey, in which case they don't even allow you anything for fresh water

 

[David and Sally]

This may be useful.



View attachment 883479

Thanks but diesel only weighs about .83 kg per litre. But assuming 1kg would be a sensible idea.

 

[Northernraider]

But we’re not there now! Why do they drag their heels putting stuff back

A lot of the EU raised the weights the other week I believe.

Knowing the UK it was probably them that proposed the idea in the first place.

Like quite a few of the things the UK press reported about the EU over the years.

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[Nigel P]

You did quote DDJC's post and used the word 'you'

The use of the word 'you' was in the sense of people in general; anyone. Sorry if that was not adequately conveyed.