Motorhome Payload Stop Checks

[Crazy Grandad]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

 

[Mark1965]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

I drive an articulated truck. I can honestly say I have never seen anyone at an Enforcement Checkpoint in a MH. Some Vans that might be a home conversion yes. Officially there is no leeway. They might let you continue your journey if you were stopped if it wasn't excessive. Otherwise you'll need to do a roadside unload. Probably best to let the Mrs walk up the road until you are out of site.

 

[Mark1965]

Water is always empty. Grey is always drained. If full it would add 200kilos.

1kg per litre for liquids is the best formula. All weights tend to be now in KG. This is certainly true for enforcement checks etc. My truck usually weighs out on our weighbridge around 43000kg.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Speedy, you are a legal dude. Would you see any discrimination grounds or anything prejudicial to the age issues of the 1997 removal of C1 rights, now that we have left the EU.

From a legal perspective, you can argue it both ways. Age discrimination can be justified, so that is a big let-out.

 

[Nirvanauk]

1kg per litre for liquids is the best formula. All weights tend to be now in KG. This is certainly true for enforcement checks etc. My truck usually weighs out on our weighbridge around 43000kg.

Wow! Now that is heavy.

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[Mark1965]

Wow! Now that is heavy.

It certainly is, especially when slowing down...

 

[BrianS]

I found this article interesting: https://www.marsden-weighing.co.uk/blog/what-are-weigh-in-motion-wim-sensors#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%20couple%20of,combat%20overloaded%20trucks%20and%20lorries.
It's a constant battle trying to keep under the 3,500kg on my PCB. My licence restricts me to this so up-plating isn't an option even if I wanted to.
I have bought a set of the Reich scales but have yet to do a direct comparison to a weighbridge reading.
The boss thinks I worry too much but then wants to add the bike rack and ebikes for our upcoming French trip.
PS Being fairly tall, I got fed up of my line of sight being interrupted by the top of the windscreen so bought a pair of lower seat bases. Oddly, they weighed a massive 14kg more than the originals so beware!

 

[BrochMike]

I do take your point about it being illegal, but...

I don't think "but" holds up in court!

I don't castigate them when they go past me doing 75

I confess to historic breaches of the speed limit laws, just as you have regarding weight limits. However, having recently attended a speed awareness course (>20mph), and understood some of the arguments in favour of such laws, I have adjusted my approach...

Continuing to break a law does not make it right.

 

[Orion]

I drive an articulated truck. I can honestly say I have never seen anyone at an Enforcement Checkpoint in a MH. Some Vans that might be a home conversion yes. Officially there is no leeway. They might let you continue your journey if you were stopped if it wasn't excessive. Otherwise you'll need to do a roadside unload. Probably best to let the Mrs walk up the road until you are out of site.

I have, and caravans. The station on the A361 North Devon Link Road adjacent to J27 of the M5 is where they run regular stopping exercises for holiday traffic heading towards North Devon and Cornwall. Usually starts at Easter and then the Bank Holidays through to July and August. It’s also a regular occurrence to come across a jackknifed caravan and belongings scattered all over the verges on one of the downhill sections near South Molton.

 

[our poppy llll]

Oh joy of joy, I was reading this thread and though I was still on the weight watchers site, phew I was getting worried.
Anyway, I have weighed everything we have, that we take with us, it came out at 263 kgs that’s including my pretty flamingo but not me. We never let the diesel tank get below 1/2 and keep the adblue full, we carry 50% fresh water but dump grey water. The hydraulic legs came in at 63kgs.
I weigh 105 kgs dressed! Our cases of clothing weighed in at 33.9 kgs our clothing was 14kgs.
So:
50 kg water
105 kg me
40 kg cases
14 kg cloths
63 kg hydraulic legs
263 kg stuff and flamingo. 535 kg
Do I add diesel?…

The pay load of my Kontiki is 1005 kgs I probably go over on my way back with all the wine and beer…

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[SpeedyDux]

I don't think "but" holds up in court!

I confess to historic breaches of the speed limit laws, just as you have regarding weight limits. However, having recently attended a speed awareness course (>20mph), and understood some of the arguments in favour of such laws, I have adjusted my approach...

Continuing to break a law does not make it right.

Late last night, in the car, scrupulously observing a 20 mph limit for what seemed like ages, and noting that I was the only vehicle on that road, no pedestrians or cyclists to be seen, I could not help thinking this is bloody daft.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Oh joy of joy, I was reading this thread and though I was still on the weight watchers site, phew I was getting worried.
Anyway, I have weighed everything we have, that we take with us, it came out at 263 kgs that’s including my pretty flamingo but not me. We never let the diesel tank get below 1/2 and keep the adblue full, we carry 50% fresh water but dump grey water. The hydraulic legs came in at 63kgs.
I weigh 105 kgs dressed! Our cases of clothing weighed in at 33.9 kgs our clothing was 14kgs.
So:
50 kg water
105 kg me
40 kg cases
14 kg cloths
63 kg hydraulic legs
263 kg stuff and flamingo. 535 kg
Do I add diesel?…

The pay load of my Kontiki is 1005 kgs I probably go over on my way back with all the wine and beer…

Get thee down to the Gym!

 

[Mleabon]

Late last night, in the car, scrupulously observing a 20 mph limit for what seemed like ages, and noting that I was the only vehicle on that road, no pedestrians or cyclists to be seen, I could not help thinking this is bloody daft.

It's hard to drive a modern vehicle at that speed.

 

[BrochMike]

It's hard to drive a modern vehicle at that speed

Don't keep pressing the accelerator.
Quite simple, really!

 

[Nigel P]

I can drive up to 7500kg. Mrs DDJC is limited to 3500kg

Our MH is plated at 3500kg, and I am fairly sure that when we travel we are a bit over, maybe 5%, which is an additional 175kg. Can't ever see that we are ever over by that much. We always tow a little 500kg unbraked Anssems trailer that I am considering chopping for a 750kg braked Anssems trailer.

My concern is less about the chances of being randomly stopped, or the chances of being in a prang and weighed. My main concern is that am I safe to travel a bit over.

I rationalise it like this. I looked into up-plating and if I fitted semi air to the rear axles, and put on 225 tyres (from 215), and then paid someone a hundred quid, I could get plated to 3850kg and extra on the rear axle. I have done the tyres and semi air, so I am therefore now safe in my own mind, although likely over my current plated weight. I am a belt and braces kind of a guy, so I also upgraded the brake disks and pads from Fiat original equipment to Brembo.

The fine for being overweight by 5% is £100. That is risk I am prepared to take, because I am confident that the bus is safe on the road. I would then have to either dump kit or pack everything hard into the trailer. Nuisance, but not a catastrophe.

However, I could get it up-plated, but then the Missus couldn't legally drive it. If I am driving, no problem. If she is driving, then she would get a fine for driving a vehicle she isn't allowed to drive. In Britain, for extreme cases (a 14 year old driving a bus for example!) that is up to a £1000 fine plus up to 6 points. But we don't have to unload and dump stuff, because I then take over. It is silly, because the bus is the same length and width empty or full, and with bigger tyres and semi air, it is only a bureaucratic bit of paper. Not sure what the French and Italian cops would do about it.

Better to be a tad overweight and take the fine, if weighed. I feel safe and that is what matters to me. The 1997 ruling to remove C1 from license is perverse and more people should be complaining about it.

Of course she could take a C1 test, but what is the point when it is increasingly looking like the DVLA is going to revert back to pre-1997 rules and give C1 to all 3500kg licence holders who are over 21 and have two years driving experience?

Would you extend that argument to the driving licence? Believing you are a brilliant driver so why bother taking a driving test with all that extra aggravation? I have posted before about the rather loose attention to rules that some seem to have. Rules are meant to provide a consistent and reliable framework for us all to operate in. Why should my safety be compromised because others choose to disregard those measures that were put in place to keep me safe. I posted recently about having many ecounters with those who thought they knew better, or the rules didn't apply to them. It is a very compelling reason for compliance when investigating collisions and extracting body parts from trees, a very sobering experience. I just do not understand why people have such difficulty in sticking to the rules! I do acknowledge a distinction between making a mistake and deliberate disobedience.

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[Sharkfighter]

Having read this thread I thought I’d put my ten penith in. I’m a retired traffic cop and was authorised to weigh vehicles, not all police officers are. I have only ever weighed one vehicle and this was full of scrap and was overweight. There is no leeway for being overweight, the % that some have been on about is for the police to work out what they do. If it’s a certain percentage then it may be a warning or a fine, the more overweight could mean a day out in court. I’ve done many operations with DVSA and VOSA where vehicles are pulled in and checked. I can say that I have never seen a motorhome pulled in. If you are stopped and found to be overweight then the remedy the police use is that you remove the problem. The police only use certain weigh bridges, I had a list of the ones I could use, the reason being is that they were calibrated. The printout from them would become evidence, so had to be accurate. As regards the bit about you could put extra weight in, I had to chuckle. You can only be prosecuted on the evidence presented at the time, not what you may do in the future. If that was the case then all motorists could be prosecuted because they may speed during their journey.

 

[Slippymurphy]

Having read this thread I thought I’d put my ten penith in. I’m a retired traffic cop and was authorised to weigh vehicles, not all police officers are. I have only ever weighed one vehicle and this was full of scrap and was overweight. There is no leeway for being overweight, the % that some have been on about is for the police to work out what they do. If it’s a certain percentage then it may be a warning or a fine, the more overweight could mean a day out in court. I’ve done many operations with DVSA and VOSA where vehicles are pulled in and checked. I can say that I have never seen a motorhome pulled in. If you are stopped and found to be overweight then the remedy the police use is that you remove the problem. The police only use certain weigh bridges, I had a list of the ones I could use, the reason being is that they were calibrated. The printout from them would become evidence, so had to be accurate. As regards the bit about you could put extra weight in, I had to chuckle. You can only be prosecuted on the evidence presented at the time, not what you may do in the future. If that was the case then all motorists could be prosecuted because they may speed during their journey.

Likewise, ex traffic cop also never weighed a Motorhome , never really crossed my mind, numerous joint ops with VOSA /DVSA Motorhome never on the radar .
vehicles involved in fatal or probable fatal collisions are fully examined and weighing them is part of the overall examination
To be fair if you find yourself in that position you’ll probably have more important things to worry about

 

[gus-lopez]

I suspect that is because a full 100 litre water tank could result in uneven load distribution,

Then the vehicle is not fit for purpose?

I have, and caravans. The station on the A361 North Devon Link Road adjacent to J27 of the M5 is where they run regular stopping exercises for holiday traffic heading towards North Devon and Cornwall. Usually starts at Easter and then the Bank Holidays through to July and August.

Yes I also have seen a MH locked up in there overnight.

It’s also a regular occurrence to come across a jackknifed caravan and belongings scattered all over the verges on one of the downhill sections near South Molton.

Yes I had that once, then after navigating that got stuck on the m25 J 25>26 were they overturn on saturdays for a past time. I knew I shouldn't have got up that morning

The pay load of my Kontiki is 1005 kgs

No the payload YOU THINK YOU have is 1005kgs ,if you have added any extras then they come off the payload. Might well only have 700 to start

Don't keep pressing the accelerator.
Quite simple, really!

& that is why all these new vehicles end up in garages in limp mode as all the emissions tat does not bode well for being driven at walking pace.

 

[Carpmart]

Nice of you both (Sharkfighter Slippymurphy) to chip in on this topic as it got quite contentious for a while!

Any idea why another ex traffic officer would post that he would take into account that you have x belted seats unused, so would add 75kg per seat to what the scales were reading?

So anyone reading this can rest easy that it’s the actual weight on the scales of any vehicle and nothing else that determines the vehicles compliance (or otherwise) with its plated weight.

 

[DDJC]

Would you extend that argument to the driving licence? Believing you are a brilliant driver so why bother taking a driving test with all that extra aggravation? I have posted before about the rather loose attention to rules that some seem to have. Rules are meant to provide a consistent and reliable framework for us all to operate in. Why should my safety be compromised because others choose to disregard those measures that were put in place to keep me safe. I posted recently about having many ecounters with those who thought they knew better, or the rules didn't apply to them. It is a very compelling reason for compliance when investigating collisions and extracting body parts from trees, a very sobering experience. I just do not understand why people have such difficulty in sticking to the rules! I do acknowledge a distinction between making a mistake and deliberate disobedience.

You can't have read my posts properly. It has nowt to do with me being a brilliant driver as you put it, and everything to do with the current law being daft. For me, the safety of my family is the deciding factor. The law, has sod all to do with safety in the context that I am describing.

There is a company that I can ring up tomorrow that if I send about a hundred quid and photos of my four 225 tyres, and the semi-air suspension, they will do the admin work to get my motorhome MAM to 3850kg. Plates and V5C.

What has physically changed? Nothing.
Does my motorhome hit yours any less hard if we have a coming together? No.
Am I suddenly the brilliant driver? Nope.
Are your "measures that were put in place to keep me safe." actually any different? Of course they aren't.
Does an archangel come down from on high and make sure I have no accidents?

Nothing changes, except for the payment of a hundred quid. It is just silly bureaucracy, and your outrage is, I am afraid, rather misplaced. You would be better off having a go at those who are massively overweight, but do not have the physical improvements that I have put in to my bus.

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[Old Gibber]

& that is why all these new vehicles end up in garages in limp mode as all the emissions tat does not bode well for being driven at walking pace.

Wish I could walk at 20mph!

 

[Slippymurphy]

Nice of you both (Sharkfighter Slippymurphy) to chip in on this topic as it got quite contentious for a while!

Any idea why another ex traffic officer would post that he would take into account that you have x belted seats unused, so would add 75kg per seat to what the scales were reading?

So anyone reading this can rest easy that it’s the actual weight on the scales of any vehicle and nothing else that determines the vehicles compliance (or otherwise) with its plated weight.

Yep not really sure , had to take a double take at the post. Trying to think of a scenario where that would stand up ………….. nope nothing

 

[our poppy llll]

The reason, and it’s not an excuse, that people speed, is because the vehicles are designed to go faster than the government allows.
It is strange that the excuse used by many is that the rules are there for the safety of others yet the majority of accidents occur while speed limits are observed.
It is strange then that a 70 mph limit is imposed on the 3 lane motorway to the Channel tunnel, but 26 miles further on a 2 lane motorway driving on the opposite side it’s safe to do 83 miles per hour. You can then see when your car is capable of 130 mph what the issue is.

 

[Soycd]

You can check the financial ombudsman decisions here: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decisions-case-studies/ombudsman-decisions

I can find plenty where the insurer declined to payout because of bald tyres. But none for a motorhome being overweight.

But that doesn’t mean it has not happened or will happen. Personally, I’d prefer to be confident that if did have a serious accident then the insurer would pay up, hence I'm up plating. It's a daft exercise, nothing has changed on the van, it's just a hoop to jump through. There will need to be some changes made soon around the legislation in this area given the very high weights of electric vehicles.

 

[DDJC]

The reason, and it’s not an excuse, that people speed, is because the vehicles are designed to go faster than the government allows.
It is strange that the excuse used by many is that the rules are there for the safety of others yet the majority of accidents occur while speed limits are observed.
It is strange then that a 70 mph limit is imposed on the 3 lane motorway to the Channel tunnel, but 26 miles further on a 2 lane motorway driving on the opposite side it’s safe to do 83 miles per hour. You can then see when your car is capable of 130 mph what the issue is.

To be fair the 83mph two lane has a restriction mechanism that reduces the amount of cars, so making it safer to put your foot down. It's called a toll

Nevertheless, my peage cruising speed is 95 - 100 kmph (57- 62 mph). I'm on holiday. No need to rush.

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[WESTY66]

You can't have read my posts properly. It has nowt to do with me being a brilliant driver as you put it, and everything to do with the current law being daft. For me, the safety of my family is the deciding factor. The law, has sod all to do with safety in the context that I am describing.

There is a company that I can ring up tomorrow that if I send about a hundred quid and photos of my four 225 tyres, and the semi-air suspension, they will do the admin work to get my motorhome MAM to 3850kg. Plates and V5C.

What has physically changed? Nothing.
Does my motorhome hit yours any less hard if we have a coming together? No.
Am I suddenly the brilliant driver? Nope.
Are your "measures that were put in place to keep me safe." actually any different? Of course they aren't.
Does an archangel come down from on high and make sure I have no accidents?

Nothing changes, except for the payment of a hundred quid. It is just silly bureaucracy, and your outrage is, I am afraid, rather misplaced. You would be better off having a go at those who are massively overweight, but do not have the physical improvements that I have put in to my bus.

Ok look at it another way Mark1965 44 ton truck is more than capable of pulling 70 tons as a low loader tractor unit and correctly plated and with the right trailer would be legal STGO, BUT at present towing a tri axle curtain sider the max he can go at is 44000kgs GVW Now it is safe to pull more but it is NOT plated to do so, so he can’t just stuff an extra 5 tons in, yes the truck would be safe to pull it but he would get fined to high heavens something like £1000 for every ton or part thereof.
The police/vosa would take a sim view of this

 

[DDJC]

Ok look at it another way Mark1965 44 ton truck is more than capable of pulling 70 tons as a low loader tractor unit and correctly plated and with the right trailer would be legal STGO, BUT at present towing a tri axle curtain sider the max he can go at is 44000kgs GVW Now it is safe to pull more but it is NOT plated to do so, so he can’t just stuff an extra 5 tons in, yes the truck would be safe to pull it but he would get fined to high heavens something like £1000 for every ton or part thereof.
The police/vosa would take a sim view of this

That isn't the same thing at all. I could plate my MH to 3850 from tomorrow. It has had the physical adaptations. Therefore it is safe to load to 3850.

 

[maison]

Yes.

We were pulled over on the A30 on the way to the Plymouth Ferry.

 

[nicholsong]

Would you extend that argument to the driving licence? Believing you are a brilliant driver so why bother taking a driving test with all that extra aggravation? I have posted before about the rather loose attention to rules that some seem to have. Rules are meant to provide a consistent and reliable framework for us all to operate in. Why should my safety be compromised because others choose to disregard those measures that were put in place to keep me safe. I posted recently about having many ecounters with those who thought they knew better, or the rules didn't apply to them. It is a very compelling reason for compliance when investigating collisions and extracting body parts from trees, a very sobering experience. I just do not understand why people have such difficulty in sticking to the rules! I do acknowledge a distinction between making a mistake and deliberate disobedience.

Your post seems to ignore the fact that DDJC has uprated the safety standards of his MH to those required for a higher weight, so is not compromising safety.

The rules he is braking are legal ones not safety ones: i.e. not having the MH upplated to reflect its safe capable weight and he is prepared to pay the stipulated fine. Lady DDJC could, if she were driving, be in breach for driving a vehicle overweight for her licence. They accept the risk of such fines.

However I cannot see that there are any moral grounds for accusing them of compromising safety.

 

[WESTY66]

That isn't the same thing at all. I could plate my MH to 3850 from tomorrow. It has had the physical adaptations. Therefore it is safe to load to 3850.

Yes and marks truck could be plated to 70 tons tomorrow and pull 70 tons BUT if it’s only plated at 44 tons he’ll get done over 44

The gross legal weight is whatever is on the plate, NOT what you think it’s safe to run at, it’s all about the laws of the land!!

Ok we’ll flip it Mrs ddjc can drive it at the mo, you could up plate it tomorrow and she can’t, even though it’s the same van! I agree the law wants changing to 7.5t but at the mo it isn’t.
Again it’s all about the LAW

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[Apacheman]

Likewise, ex traffic cop also never weighed a Motorhome , never really crossed my mind, numerous joint ops with VOSA /DVSA Motorhome never on the radar .
vehicles involved in fatal or probable fatal collisions are fully examined and weighing them is part of the overall examination
To be fair if you find yourself in that position you’ll probably have more important things to worry about

West Yorks Ex traffic cop. We used to run operations at certain times at J24 M62 and J45 A1(M) both locations with dynamic weigh stations. Going back a few years now but we’d have caravan days, mainly looking for stolen vans but working with VOSA as it was, checking roadworthiness and weights. Not so many Motorhomes about then but as they grow in popularity, and we know they are a great target for thieves, they may get more police attention. We worked on up to 5% a warning, 5-10% a fixed penalty, 10% and over summonsed to court and a prohibition notice. Read the posts, get the arguments, but they will always work to your plated weight if you do get stopped.